Canon USA Refuses to Repair Defective Roll Feed

[John Hollenberg]

This cautionary tale of Canon USA trying to Weasel out of repairing a defective roll feed unit was just posted on the Wiki discussion forum:

"I called Canon for support and things started out sounding encouraging. I mentioned that I knew these were well known problems and was offered a new red cartridge if I promised to send my defective cartridge back to them. They wanted to examine it. For the sheet feeder, the service tech on the phone was walking me through some procedures to help him diagnose, or at least characterize, the problem. I happened to mention that I had read about the well-known problem with the little white gear and a spring coming off, and that I had removed one of the plastic covers on the end of the roll feed unit and confirmed that the gear was indeed rolling around in the unit, implying that all this diagnostic stuff we were doing was not necessary. Not long after that I was told that my guarantee was no longer valid and that I needed to get a certified tech to fix it for me and then inform Canon that the repair had been done. I explained that I had only removed one little plastic cover, just two screws, and it didn't matter. In all my experience with some really expensive equipment (1/2-million dollar electron microscopes, etc.) and really expensive service contracts I had never had this happen. In fact, we were expected to peak under the hood to see if we could identify the source of the problem and if it was obvious to fix it ourselves. Often we would repair it with guidance via phone, saving us all a lot of time and money."

Buyer beware.

--John

[Mark D Segal]

I wonder if the business management people have something like the Moldy Tomato awards handed-out in the movie industry to the worst film of the year.

[erichK]

Canon have just lost a couple more customers.  I was about to buy an 5000, and a colleague was going to try it out too, and likely buy one herself.  This report, combined with many others-- even one from the author of the Canon Wiki --makes it clear that its better to avoid the bloated and uncaring Canon megafirm!  

erichK
Saskatoon, Canada

This cautionary tale of Canon USA trying to Weasel out of repairing a defective roll feed unit was just posted on the Wiki discussion forum:

"I called Canon for support and things started out sounding encouraging. I mentioned that I knew these were well known problems and was offered a new red cartridge if I promised to send my defective cartridge back to them. They wanted to examine it. For the sheet feeder, the service tech on the phone was walking me through some procedures to help him diagnose, or at least characterize, the problem. I happened to mention that I had read about the well-known problem with the little white gear and a spring coming off, and that I had removed one of the plastic covers on the end of the roll feed unit and confirmed that the gear was indeed rolling around in the unit, implying that all this diagnostic stuff we were doing was not necessary. Not long after that I was told that my guarantee was no longer valid and that I needed to get a certified tech to fix it for me and then inform Canon that the repair had been done. I explained that I had only removed one little plastic cover, just two screws, and it didn't matter. In all my experience with some really expensive equipment (1/2-million dollar electron microscopes, etc.) and really expensive service contracts I had never had this happen. In fact, we were expected to peak under the hood to see if we could identify the source of the problem and if it was obvious to fix it ourselves. Often we would repair it with guidance via phone, saving us all a lot of time and money."

Buyer beware.

--John
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[Mark D Segal]

Canon have just lost a couple more customers.  I was about to buy an 5000, and a colleague was going to try it out too, and likely buy one herself.  This report, combined with many others-- even one from the author of the Canon Wiki --makes it clear that its better to avoid the bloated and uncaring Canon megafirm! 

erichK
Saskatoon, Canada
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128742\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Be a bit careful here. Canon is a huge corporation with a very diversified product slate and they manufacture and support much excellent equipment. The problems being aired here are quite specific to the divisions responsible for the IPF 5000 printer.

[mkress65]

In a letter to one of the unofficial wiki members, Mr. Rich Reamer committed that Canon would support the repair/ replacement of defective roll feed units even once they were no longer covered by the warranty.  It will be interesting to see if they live up to Mr. Reamer's claim, especially since the PF-01 and PF-02 print heads are not specifically covered by the new warranty language but Canon management has committed (verbally) to Michael Reichman that they are covered.  As far as I know, this is the first test of these informal commitments.

Here is the quote from Mr. Reamer: "5. Hardware service issues. Canon USA is aware of the pendulum RFU issues, and Canon USA will continue to support problems related to these parts whether or not the unit is in warranty. Should you experience problems, please contact our tech support, 800-423-2366. Additionally, our on-site staff has been alerted to install the updated parts on any unit that requires them."

From this discussion at the wiki: http://canonipf5000.wikispaces.com/message/view/FAQ/574847

Matt

Oh and for the inevitable "why are you complaining about this printer/ you should give Canon a break/ stop being so negative" posts... I like my printer, it works well, its worked well from day 1 except for one bad ink cart which Canon replaced w/o issue; but I still think that any company that intends to make a profit from its customers should be held accountable for bad customer service, even if it is an isolated incident.  If they are not held accountable, they will not improve and we all benefit from their improving.

Canon have just lost a couple more customers.  I was about to buy an 5000, and a colleague was going to try it out too, and likely buy one herself.  This report, combined with many others-- even one from the author of the Canon Wiki --makes it clear that its better to avoid the bloated and uncaring Canon megafirm! 

erichK
Saskatoon, Canada
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128742\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[John Hollenberg]

It really is a shame that Canon can't get their act together more effectively.  If they had a better warranty on the printheads and really stood behind the printers when something is wrong (especially a design defect) they could sell a boatload of these printers.  Now perhaps this is a very isolated incident, as many have reported prompt and qualified service on the defective Roll Feed Units.  One just wonders "What are these guys thinking about when they make these kinds of decisions?  Doesn't anyone look at the larger (public relations) picture here?"  

Still, the Canon engineers are pretty smart.  My guess is that the iPF5100 will be a brilliant, rock-solid piece of machinery that will require very few service calls.  Perhaps they plan to try to rescue their reputation with the photo printing community with the new model.

--John

[nigeldh]

I also had the wheels, well gears, come off my iPF5000 feeder. And this was while the printer was sitting idle. Print on roll paper on Sun. Come back on Wed and the roll feeder doesn't work. I called in the service request on 7/12, Thrs, and I might actually be able to connect with the service tech this Thrs, 7/19. Here in Central NY state, the service guy is over 2hrs away and he is servicing other customers & equipment with, what his dispatcher says, are more critical service calls.

Right now I think that the best use for a Canon iPF5000 is to buy it and use it for the rebate toward an HP. Then you have two printers for little more than the price for one. ouch

Based upon my experience getting service, I don't think I can trust Canon printer service. And when I am in the market for a new printer, Canon may talk the talk but they sure can't walk the walk.

Please HP, introduce a 17" Pro printer. A lot of folks want to print on cut sheet paper or can't afford a 24" printer but still want user replaceable print heads and pigment ink.

Canon also seems to have a lot of problems with the new EOS-1D Mark III.

Added 7/18
1. When I placed my service call I told the Canon tech, that with the travel distances involved, that it would be easiest to cross ship a new roll feeder. Canon tech checked and Roll Feeder is not "consumable item" so he couldn't do this.
And Ithaca area isn' that rural, about 1 hr to Syracuse or Binghamton. I can think of places that are "not the end of the world but you can see it from here."

So instead Canon is going to pay for at least 4 hrs of total travel time, service tech is near Oneonta, NY,  plus on-site time.

2. The service tech was not very happy, with Canon knowing about the pendulum gear issue, that the parts hadn't been shipped to me when the call was opened. So the service tech had to call in the parts order on Monday and I got the parts on Tues.

3. I was referring to the autofocus issue on EOS-1D Mark III, URL from an other comment: www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9006

[Mark D Segal]

Still, the Canon engineers are pretty smart.  My guess is that the iPF5100 will be a brilliant, rock-solid piece of machinery that will require very few service calls.  Perhaps they plan to try to rescue their reputation with the photo printing community with the new model.

--John
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128761\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

John, it would be a very good thing for the digital imaging community if you are proven correct about this - but the operative word here is PROVEN, because ever since I cancelled my order for an IPF5000 I haven't had one moment of regret about that decision - Canon has proven it right over and over again. The printing technology per se is excellent in terms of the print quality, so my mnd is still open on the Canon option, but the new model will have to prove itself in the hands of the early adopters, who are prepared to take more risk with their time and money than I am, before I spring for one - a choice that could well be all the more tempting if Epson's forthcoming product line doesn't solve the ink switching issue once and for all.

[Mark D Segal]

I also had the wheels, well gears, come off my iPF5000 feeder. And this was while the printer was sitting idle. Print on roll paper on Sun. Come back on Wed and the roll feeder doesn't work. I called in the service request on 7/12, Thrs, and I might actually be able to connect with the service tech this Thrs, 7/19. Here in Central NY state, the service guy is over 2hrs away and he is servicing other customers & equipment with, what his dispatcher says, are more critical service calls.

Right now I think that the best use for a Canon iPF5000 is to buy it and use it for the rebate toward an HP. Then you have two printers for little more than the price for one. ouch

Based upon my experience getting service, I don't think I can trust Canon printer service. And when I am in the market for a new printer, Canon may talk the talk but they sure can't walk the walk.

Please HP, introduce a 17" Pro printer. A lot of folks want to print on cut sheet paper or can't afford a 24" printer but still want user replaceable print heads and pigment ink.

Canon also seems to have a lot of problems with the new EOS-1D Mark III.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128763\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Service is a critical issue to watch going forward - no question about it.

But I am curious about your remarks concerning the new EOS-1D Mk III. What are these problems? One should know in anticipation of the next 1Ds model.

[John Hollenberg]

John, it would be a very good thing for the digital imaging community if you are proven correct about this - but the operative word here is PROVEN, because ever since I cancelled my order for an IPF5000 I haven't had one moment of regret about that decision - Canon has proven it right over and over again. The printing technology per se is excellent in terms of the print quality, so my mnd is still open on the Canon option, but the new model will have to prove itself in the hands of the early adopters, who are prepared to take more risk with their time and money than I am, before I spring for one

Can't argue with you here.  Canon's strength is the technology which I think is second to none, but the service and warranty issues just haven't been addressed properly.  However, it sure is nice to make a print from the roll without even doing a nozzle check and know it will come out perfect.  That is what I have been experiencing after getting the "kinks" worked out.  

--John

[Charles Gast]

I put the 5000 I had on ebay as soon as I realized they had no wilhelm rating on their ink permanence. Wilhelm only has a "preliminary" release to this date and Canon came up with their own so-called results. To many this would not be too big a deal but it broke the camels back for me.

Another nagging issue was the user who had visible banding in the prints and after sending a print to Canon they declared the banding "acceptable" and refused to do anything about it.

Canon make such good cameras how can they be so totally stupid with their printer support?
Strange.

[John Hollenberg]

I put the 5000 I had on ebay as soon as I realized they had no wilhelm rating on their ink permanence. Wilhelm only has a "preliminary" release to this date and Canon came up with their own so-called results. To many this would not be too big a deal but it broke the camels back for me.

Yes, but the results for papers tested by Wilhelm look OK compared to Epson:

http://downloads.canon.com/cpr/software/wi...lt_April_07.pdf

--John

[mkress65]

Service is a critical issue to watch going forward - no question about it.

But I am curious about your remarks concerning the new EOS-1D Mk III. What are these problems? One should know in anticipation of the next 1Ds model.
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My guess would be the issues regarding auto focus problems in certain circumstances; discussed at Rob Galbraith and other fora.

[a href=\"http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9006]http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_p...cid=7-8740-9006[/url]

Matt

[tumesch]

Yes, but the results for papers tested by Wilhelm look OK compared to Epson:

http://downloads.canon.com/cpr/software/wi...lt_April_07.pdf

--John
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128839\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

John, there must be a reason why Canon is holding back the long overdue "normal" Wilhelm Report. Looking for details that have been omitted from their own edition, maybe the bare-bulb results are bad. "Framed prints, under glass" could be UV filtered - it doesn't say otherwise. All pure speculation, which Canon obviously put up with.

Thomas

[John Hollenberg]

John, there must be a reason why Canon is holding back the long overdue "normal" Wilhelm Report. Looking for details that have been omitted from their own edition, maybe the bare-bulb results are bad. "Framed prints, under glass" could be UV filtered - it doesn't say otherwise. All pure speculation, which Canon obviously put up with.

A good point.  We know that the black ink has been reformulated for the iPF5100 (to reduce bronzing, I believe).  Perhaps there is some additional bad news that has been left out of the abbreviated report.  Still, I consider at least some official Wilhelm results a lot better than none, and the results reported are on par with Epson (but way behind HP).

--John

[jpgentry]

Early adopter here.  6079 square feet and counting...  One bad ink cartridge which was replaced the next day.  The ipf8000 is a dream.  Sorry for all the 5000 problems but anyone looking into the 44" or 60" inch line shouldn't be scared by these reports on the 5000.  This printer moves media faster than any other printer in it's class.  I wouldn't even consider an HP or Epson for print for pay work.