Rethinking Hasselblad

[Mort54]

Hi All. I'm taking a Contax/P45 out for a test drive tomorrow, and I have a quote coming on a Hy6 system. But I'm feeling a little squeemish about putting together a used Contax system via eBay (the lenses are getting very expensive, and who knows who you can trust on eBay), and I'm also feeling a little squeemish about not being able to get a Phase back for the Hy6. As a result, I'm wondering if I should reconsider my initial dismissal of an H2-based Hassy system. So, I have a few questions for the forum:

First, for those of you who actually have an H2 system with a Phase back, how many of you are having problems, lockups, and all of the other issues I keep hearing about on this forum? Or are you all happy campers?

Second, which would you recommend - a 150/3.2 plus the 1.7X converter, or the 210/4?

Third, I've heard great things about the H3 viewfinder brightness and magnification, since I believe it's magnification is optimized for a 48 x 36 mm sensor. How does the H2 viewfinder compare with the H3 viewfinder in brightness and magnification, or do they both use the same viewfinder?

Fourth, are there any drawbacks to using a Phase back on an H2? Does it require a sync cable, or is all the communication handled thru the body to back connections?

Thanks,
Hans.

[paul_jones]

Hi All. I'm taking a Contax/P45 out for a test drive tomorrow, and I have a quote coming on a Hy6 system. But I'm feeling a little squeemish about putting together a used Contax system via eBay (the lenses are getting very expensive, and who knows who you can trust on eBay), and I'm also feeling a little squeemish about not being able to get a Phase back for the Hy6. As a result, I'm wondering if I should reconsider my initial dismissal of an H2-based Hassy system. So, I have a few questions for the forum:

First, for those of you who actually have an H2 system with a Phase back, how many of you are having problems, lockups, and all of the other issues I keep hearing about on this forum? Or are you all happy campers?

Second, which would you recommend - a 150/3.2 plus the 1.7X converter, or the 210/4?

Third, I've heard great things about the H3 viewfinder brightness and magnification, since I believe it's magnification is optimized for a 48 x 36 mm sensor. How does the H2 viewfinder compare with the H3 viewfinder in brightness and magnification, or do they both use the same viewfinder?

Fourth, are there any drawbacks to using a Phase back on an H2? Does it require a sync cable, or is all the communication handled thru the body to back connections?

Thanks,
Hans.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111795\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i have an h1(updated to h2) with a p25. i had a few lockups with rented backs a while back (as well as problems with a mamiya afd/p25), but very few with my own back. the only bug is that i aways turn the back off before the h1 body, and the body dosnt shut down. so you need to turn the back on again - then turn the body off- or pull the battery grip. it may happen once a month, but its so quick to remove/replace the grip, it rarely causes a problem on a shoot .

i owned a contax and used it with a p25, and that had communication issues. clean contacts fixes that.

a couple of weeks ago, i had a connect back error- i just wiggled the back and it dissapeared.

none of these issues are serious- and are quicker to fix that a roll of film not loaded correctly, or a wonky polaroid. i think the bugs are unfairly focused on.

the biggest thing that anoyed me about the h1 was my zoom had 800 shots on it and the shutter went (error id 21). that took 11 weeks to repair and cost about 1400usd. i bought it second hand, and the warranty wasnt transferable.

i have the 1.7x. it seems sharp, but has a bit of CA.

paul

[MarkKay]

I am using an H2 with leaf back and I am not having any problems. There is no need for a cable.  I just picked up a used 150mm and have a 100 and 210mm lens. I was most interesting in the bokeh comparison of the 100 vs 150mm HC lenses.  I plan to do some comparisons this coming week and decide if I should sell one of them.  I like the 210mm and with the 1.7x adapter, there is no image degradation whatsoever.  I think the 150+1.7x vs 210mm would be a good comparison.

Hi All. I'm taking a Contax/P45 out for a test drive tomorrow, and I have a quote coming on a Hy6 system. But I'm feeling a little squeemish about putting together a used Contax system via eBay (the lenses are getting very expensive, and who knows who you can trust on eBay), and I'm also feeling a little squeemish about not being able to get a Phase back for the Hy6. As a result, I'm wondering if I should reconsider my initial dismissal of an H2-based Hassy system. So, I have a few questions for the forum:

First, for those of you who actually have an H2 system with a Phase back, how many of you are having problems, lockups, and all of the other issues I keep hearing about on this forum? Or are you all happy campers?

Second, which would you recommend - a 150/3.2 plus the 1.7X converter, or the 210/4?

Third, I've heard great things about the H3 viewfinder brightness and magnification, since I believe it's magnification is optimized for a 48 x 36 mm sensor. How does the H2 viewfinder compare with the H3 viewfinder in brightness and magnification, or do they both use the same viewfinder?

Fourth, are there any drawbacks to using a Phase back on an H2? Does it require a sync cable, or is all the communication handled thru the body to back connections?

Thanks,
Hans.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111795\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[godtfred]

Second, which would you recommend - a 150/3.2 plus the 1.7X converter, or the 210/4?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111795\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Depends what you mostly shoot, do you use 210 and 300 a lot (prob. not as you are not considering the 300.) then go for the 210. But if you use mostly 150 and sometimes 210, then a combination 150 and converter seems like a good cost/use combo for you.

Third, I've heard great things about the H3 viewfinder brightness and magnification, since I believe it's magnification is optimized for a 48 x 36 mm sensor. How does the H2 viewfinder compare with the H3 viewfinder in brightness and magnification, or do they both use the same viewfinder?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111795\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It's different viewfinders with the same outside apperance. The magnification is different, and the H3 finder improves on the H2 finder when used with digi-backs. The metering is also different with the new finder as it measures a smaller format, plus they have removed one of the metering modes. Its useless with film due to the 48mm format, but who shoots that these days    

I just got the HVM waist level finder, and it is a nice cheap accessory that really makes the H feel more like a good old V... try it out if you liked that way of working before.

Fourth, are there any drawbacks to using a Phase back on an H2? Does it require a sync cable, or is all the communication handled thru the body to back connections?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111795\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

All communication is handled through back contacts (at least it was when I had the system on test... and it worked fine for me, but I ended up with a hassy solution for other reasons.)

Good luck with you purchase. -axel

[Morgan_Moore]

Hi All. I'm taking a Contax/P45 out for a test drive tomorrow[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111795\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I use a emotion not a phase with an H1

Firstly I would comment that by going phase you are making your life a little more tricky

Wiht a emotion back you can easily change system via an adapter plate

So you could go contax now and hy6 in a couple of years if that system gets a good rep

you could also go H1/2 now and go hy6 if the system gets a good rep

---

In terms of the H1/2 I think it is the best current offering

decent flash synch bright view and crisp AF (centerpoint only)

Contax probably has a nicer look to the lenses but I wouldnt trade that for the flash synch and darker screen (personal)

I think H1/2 is the best jobbing camera where you have to please a wide veriety of clients fast while it can ulimately beaten cos of look of other glass

in terms of stability with my back it has been fine - occasional lockups when batts are low / fire wire pulled out ect but basically 99.5% of the time it does what it says on the box

SMM

[paul_jones]

I use a emotion not a phase with an H1

Firstly I would comment that by going phase you are making your life a little more tricky

Wiht a emotion back you can easily change system via an adapter plate

So you could go contax now and hy6 in a couple of years if that system gets a good rep

you could also go H1/2 now and go hy6 if the system gets a good rep

---

In terms of the H1/2 I think it is the best current offering

decent flash synch bright view and crisp AF (centerpoint only)

Contax probably has a nicer look to the lenses but I wouldnt trade that for the flash synch and darker screen (personal)

I think H1/2 is the best jobbing camera where you have to please a wide veriety of clients fast while it can ulimately beaten cos of look of other glass

in terms of stability with my back it has been fine - occasional lockups when batts are low / fire wire pulled out ect but basically 99.5% of the time it does what it says on the box

SMM
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111815\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

quite a lot dealers will let you change mount at a resonable cost. arnt the emotion adaptor plates quite expensive? i really liked that idea when i look into the emotion, but got put off by the adaptor costs.

paul

[Graham Mitchell]

quite a lot dealers will let you change mount at a resonable cost. arnt the emotion adaptor plates quite expensive? i really liked that idea when i look into the emotion, but got put off by the adaptor costs.

A good friend of mine in Sweden bought a new P30 in Hass V mount and then changed to Hass H mount only 3 months later. He was charged $4000 for the mount change, and now still has just one mount.

With the Sinar system, you can add a Hass H adapter (or other mounts) for $1500 (see http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller...list&sku=428860 ) and keep your existing adapter, allowing you to use the back on different systems on different days. This is a great feature, and was a big influence on my purchase. If you don't want to keep your adapter, I suppose you could sell it for at least half the new price, thus reducing the mount swap to well under $1K.

The Rollei adapter is ~$2000 but I believe the extra expense is due to the fact that it rotates.

[godtfred]

The hass CF line also does the same as the sinar backs (offer interoperability using adapter plates.) As well as being the only backs on offer with multi-shot, a screen, image bank and CF-card functionality in one neat package.

Well worth checking out if you like the kodak chips instead of the dalsa, but still want the adapterplate functionality.

-axel

[BernardLanguillier]

The hass CF line also does the same as the sinar backs (offer interoperability using adapter plates.) As well as being the only backs on offer with multi-shot, a screen, image bank and CF-card functionality in one neat package.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111839\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Is the Hassy the only multi-shot back on offer? I was under the impression that Sinar has one as well?

Cheers,
Bernard

[thsinar]

Dear Paul,

this time a couple of questions from me to you:

- what do you mean excatly with "quite a lot dealers will let you change mount at a resonable cost"?: who does it and for which cameras/backs? how does this change of mount work and what is the exact costs of it?

I honestly dont know and would be interested to know how it is handled in practice and which cost are related.

- what do you mean with "arnt the emotion adaptor plates quite expensive"?:

I wonder how much you have been told?

It is true that the eMotion adapters are around € 1'000.- (may vary from country to country), but please bear in mind that this is not just a simple metallic plate: it contains some electronics inside and an own firmware to allow perfect commnication with bodies like the H1/H2, the Contax, the Rollei, the Mamiya, etc ...

Is such a price unjustified for allowing the change to another camera platform with one's own and same digital Sinarback?

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry

quite a lot dealers will let you change mount at a resonable cost. arnt the emotion adaptor plates quite expensive? i really liked that idea when i look into the emotion, but got put off by the adaptor costs.

paul
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111817\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Morgan_Moore]

He was charged $4000 for the mount change, and now still has just one mount.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111834\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Plus rental or downtime when the back was away ...??

S

[mtomalty]

A PhaseOne owner or vendor would be, certainly,more qualified to answer this that me
but doesn't Phase offer a 3 year 'uptime' warranty,obviously available at additional cost,
that provides the owner with an immediate replacement back if theirs requires service.

I was also told that the 3 year uptime warranty also includes the ability to switch out
to a different camera platform,free of charge, within the first year.

Mark

[william]

Mark,

I have a Phase P30 and that is all correct.  I thankfully haven't needed to invoke the uptime warranty, but allegedly Phase (or your dealer?) will get you a replacement within a day or so if needed.

A PhaseOne owner or vendor would be, certainly,more qualified to answer this that me
but doesn't Phase offer a 3 year 'uptime' warranty,obviously available at additional cost,
that provides the owner with an immediate replacement back if theirs requires service.

I was also told that the 3 year uptime warranty also includes the ability to switch out
to a different camera platform,free of charge, within the first year.

Mark
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111896\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[thsinar]

Dear Bernard,

right, we have not only 1 multishot back, but a 22 MPx, a 33 MPx to come in a couple of weeks, plus all the earlier models.

Thierry

Is the Hassy the only multi-shot back on offer? I was under the impression that Sinar has one as well?

Cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111840\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[godtfred]

Is the Hassy the only multi-shot back on offer? I was under the impression that Sinar has one as well?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111840\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No, its not the only multi shot on offer (sinar has one/some), but its the only ones on offer with the complete features list i mentioned.

I'm not sure, but as far as I can tell, sinar does not offer a screen on their 4 shot products, and I'm not sure about battery operated shooting either. But the Hassy solutions seems to provide all the comforts of a "normal" one shot back on top of its 4/16 shot capability and adapter plate design.

-axel

[nicholask]

No, its not the only multi shot on offer (sinar has one/some), but its the only ones on offer with the complete features list i mentioned.

I'm not sure, but as far as I can tell, sinar does not offer a screen on their 4 shot products, and I'm not sure about battery operated shooting either. But the Hassy solutions seems to provide all the comforts of a "normal" one shot back on top of its 4/16 shot capability and adapter plate design.

-axel
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111986\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Having worked extensively with a multishot sinar back, on a Sinar P3 camera, I can't honestly see there as being a great need for a screen on the back itself.  All my multishot work was done tethered, and personally I don't think I would ever have a need to shoot multishot any other way...

Nick

[paul_jones]

Dear Paul,

this time a couple of questions from me to you:

- what do you mean excatly with "quite a lot dealers will let you change mount at a resonable cost"?: who does it and for which cameras/backs? how does this change of mount work and what is the exact costs of it?

I honestly dont know and would be interested to know how it is handled in practice and which cost are related.

- what do you mean with "arnt the emotion adaptor plates quite expensive"?:

I wonder how much you have been told?

It is true that the eMotion adapters are around € 1'000.- (may vary from country to country), but please bear in mind that this is not just a simple metallic plate: it contains some electronics inside and an own firmware to allow perfect commnication with bodies like the H1/H2, the Contax, the Rollei, the Mamiya, etc ...

Is such a price unjustified for allowing the change to another camera platform with one's own and same digital Sinarback?

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111862\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

the dealer i was going to buy my p25 off in the states said i would be able to change the mount in the first year for free. The dealer in new zealand said it would cost 400nzd ( that guy left, and since ive been told 2000nzd). but still, 2000nzd is about 1000 euros.
im sure the price is justified, but at the time i was very stretched to purchase a back, and wasnt quite sure about the h1 system.

i cant remember what the australian sinar adaptor price was exactly (the isnt a new zealand sinar agent), but it was more than 1000 euros.

i really liked the sinar specs and product, and had contact with some emotion users that loved them. the adaptors and shoot speed was a big selling points.
but i was sold on the p25s software and support. also, i didnt like being the only person with a sinar back in the whole country.

paul

[paul_jones]

just to add with what i just said (and to get it off my chest), i was really sold on an emotion 22 back instead of the p25. i still really like the idea. but i sent emails to everyone on the web that sold them(at the time- 6 mths ago), nobody got back to me. i didnt even know if sinar was still in business.
the rollei/emotion 22 is cool, but impossible for me to buy.

so im tied into an expensive h1 system, but im very happy with my phase.

paul

[thsinar]

YES, that is (was) exactly our idea and thoughts.

It is certainly nice to have all-in-one, including a display, but then and for us, a multishot back is to achieve ultimate quality. Ultimate quality is not compatible with compromises, and a display is a compromise because it adds heat (additional electronical device producing heat) which has to be eliminated somehow, by means of a more active cooling system or else, which in return wil then need more power from the battery, etc .... The same applies for an internal memory: it produces un-necessary heat.

We have eventually decided for the ultimate quality, especially when these features are not absolutely needed when shooting in multishot mode.

Best regards,
Thierry

Having worked extensively with a multishot sinar back, on a Sinar P3 camera, I can't honestly see there as being a great need for a screen on the back itself.  All my multishot work was done tethered, and personally I don't think I would ever have a need to shoot multishot any other way...

Nick
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111988\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[godtfred]

Ultimate quality is not compatible with compromises, and a display is a compromise because it adds heat (additional electronical device producing heat) which has to be eliminated somehow, by means of a more active cooling system or else, which in return wil then need more power from the battery, etc ....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=112001\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have not tried the CF backs, but would certainly expect the screen to be turned off when shooting 4 or 16 shot mode, thus generating no heat whatsoever (i can see the possibility for noise created from extra electronics in the back, but would also think it to be negible.)

As far as battery generated heat, all hassy backs run batteryless when tethered or to an imagebank, so no heat here either.

I can see no valid argument for why the screen or battery should be omitted, if there is the possibility to shut both off or cut them out in 4 and 16 shot mode? Being able to invest in only one back, and use it for a wide variety of jobs, must be a plus for any professional photographer when cost is a major factor...?

-axel