Tripod/Head Recommendation for MFDB

[Drew Harty]

Hello,

I am moving from using 4x5 and 8x10 cameras to a 6x9 with a MFDB, and I figured the tripod and head I use will become even more important to maintain print sharpness given the greater degree of enlargement required using a MFDB.  I currently use a Gitzo 1410 aluminum tripod (26 lb. load capacity) with the 1570 head.  

Has anyone compared the Gitzo 3530 (39 lb load capacity) or even the 5530 (55 lb load capacity) with the heavy Gitzo aluminum tripods for stability?  The much higher load capacities seem to suggest they should be more stable, but are they really?  Does greater load capacity actually mean they have more torsional stability to prevent camera movement when the wind is blowing?

Will a good ball head make for a more stable camera platform than the large Gitzo 1570 or 2270 heads?

Thanks for any advice?

Drew Harty

[BJNY]

I used 8x10 cameras for 20+ years as well.  When I switched to digital 3+ years ago, I got Manfrotto 400 + 410 geared heads (there's also a 405 model), and have been considering getting the Arca-Swiss C1 Cube head.

Legs-wise, I'm looking at Gitzo's GT2540LVL, and I'll hang a camera bag off it to add stability.

[Jack Flesher]

Save yourself the aggravation and get either an Arca B2 or Arca Cube and you'll never have to question your head choice again.  Both are painfully expensive but second to none in use and performance.  The Cube is geared and very convenient to use and level, and has a built-in pano-clamp up top, but not overly massive and thus marginal for systems over 15 pounds IMO.  The B2 is a bi-axial adjustable ball-head, making it very simple to level any camera -- even massive ULF view cameras -- and has a load rating of 150 pounds, which may in fact be conservative...

For an MF tripod, I would look at the new Gitzo 3xxx series carbon fiber, or if you want the most rigid pod, a bigger 15-sereis is rock-solid.  (PS: I am selling a near-new 1548 Giant in the FOR SALE section if interested.)  

Cheers,

[AndrewDyer]

I haven't tried out the Gitzo products but I am very happy with my purchase of a Manfrotto 405 geared head. I have a Hasselblad 503cw and sometimes a bellows on it as well. It seem well and truely up to the task of controlling that weight. Also have the Manfrotto 058B Triaut tripod. Once again it seems more than up to the task... very stable. If the Gitzo's are better systems, I can't imagine them being that noticibly better.
regards
Andrew

[Jack Flesher]

If the Gitzo's are better systems, I can't imagine them being that noticibly better.

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I think the 405 is a viable option and certianly attractive in price.  However, relative to the Cube, I found notably more flex in the 405, plus it is about 2x as heavy as the Cube.  FWIW I found significantly more flex in the smaller, but comparable-weight to the Cube, geared 410.  

Another distinction to the Cube is its platform rotations are "orbital" at about an inch above the center of the clamp. By contrast, the 405/410 are significantly below the clamp platform.  Orbiting above the platform, and thus closer to the lens' nodal point, can help somewhat for spherical stitching and may alleviate the need for buying a dedicated "spherical" pano head for such purposes.

Cheers,

[Dustbak]

I haven't tried out the Gitzo products but I am very happy with my purchase of a Manfrotto 405 geared head. I have a Hasselblad 503cw and sometimes a bellows on it as well. It seem well and truely up to the task of controlling that weight. Also have the Manfrotto 058B Triaut tripod. Once again it seems more than up to the task... very stable. If the Gitzo's are better systems, I can't imagine them being that noticibly better.
regards
Andrew
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I use the Gitzo 1348 with a Burszynski ballhead. Very sturdy and works very well however I don't really like the fastening of the Gitzo. It can be akward and painful to loosen it especially when it is cold or sometimes when it is really tight.

Before the  Gitzo I used the Manfrotto as well but the Gitzo is sturdier and will last longer. The Manfrotto was more prone to vibrations and the quick fasteners eventually wore out making them less tight. However I believe Manfrotto has improved that system now.

The Burszynski is very nice, extremely well built and a joy to use if a ballhead is the head of choice.

My next tripod probably will be a Sachtler ENG CF2. Indeed painfully expensive (even more than Gitzo, a lot more) but extremely lightweight and extremely sturdy and uses another fastening method than the Gitzo for the leg elements. The Sachtler can take ridiculous loads.

The Gitzo can take my 503, Truewide, Digiflex all with heavy glass and has no problem doing so even with wind (not taking hurricane or stormforce into calculation). It is just that damn fastening I have grown to hate.

[Drew Harty]

For an MF tripod, I would look at the new Gitzo 3xxx series carbon fiber, or if you want the most rigid pod, a bigger 15-sereis is rock-solid.  (PS: I am selling a near-new 1548 Giant in the FOR SALE section if interested.)  


Do you think, though, a carbon fiber 6x tripod is going to be a more or less stable plaform for a 6x9 view camera than an aluminum one rated for a similar weight?  

Manufactures all rate their tripods for max load, but does that really tell us how stable they will be when the camera is being pushed around in the wind?

Same for a ball head: is it more stable when a twisting force is put on it than a gimbled head like the 1570?  Or to put it another way, does a ball head couple the camera to the tripod legs better than a gimbled head?

Drew

[ternst]

I would throw a vote in for a Dutch Hill CF tripod (if you can find one). They are built a lot like the Sachtlers but at a fraction of the cost. I just got their "tall" 900T version and love it - so simple, quick and easy to set up and adjust, as opposed to the gitzos and most others that require 9 or 12 twists each time. I've been using a Ries wood tripod for many moons and will now put it up on the shelf for good...

Tim Ernst in Arkansas
www.Cloudland.net

[Jack Flesher]

Do you think, though, a carbon fiber 6x tripod is going to be a more or less stable plaform for a 6x9 view camera than an aluminum one rated for a similar weight? 

Manufactures all rate their tripods for max load, but does that really tell us how stable they will be when the camera is being pushed around in the wind?

Same for a ball head: is it more stable when a twisting force is put on it than a gimbled head like the 1570?  Or to put it another way, does a ball head couple the camera to the tripod legs better than a gimbled head?

Drew
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=110089\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

1) The bigest advantage to CF over aluminum is vibration -- CF attenuates leg vibrations better (faster) than aluminum. CF weight-to-strength ratio over aluminum is the secondary advantage IMO.

2) Assuming the head locks down tightly enough (see #3 below), any angular force on the camera is transmitted directly to the tripod legs through the platform/mounting arrangement on the specific tripod.  Less rigid legsets or leg hinge points will flex more at this junction.  Also, heads that sit lower give less mechanical advantage to the angular force at the camera and are thus more rigid as part of the total assembly. This is why platforms are more rigid than center columns.  It is also another reason why a head like the Burzynski that sits even lower in the pod than a platform are so well respected. (Understand it is very rigid to begin with -- the fact it also sits lower just adds to its rigidity advantage.)  

3) Coming back to the head itself, if it has any spring or give in it to an angular force on the camera, this will translate into even greater vibration periods (longer lasting and/or greater in amplitude) at the camera than a more rigid head.

Cheers,

[David WM]

I used the Manfrotto 410 junior geared head with a RZ and Lead DCB for years and found it OK. It is around half the weight of the 405 and it is rated to 5 kg.  I don't know which 6 x 9 you arre looking at, but the 410 might be adequate and help save physio bills. When I changed to cameras that you need to tilt on their side to shoot a vertical I stopped using that head as I found its movements when you have it tilted to a vertical crop to  be awkward and throws a lot more strain on the head.

David

[paul_jones]

while we are the topic of tripods- i wrecked another tripod while shooting knee deep in surf today (salt water).
is there any tripods that can handle that kind of abuse? i also have one of those heavy steel legged manfrotto tripods, the ones that the legs slide down. thats seized up since i shot in a clorine swimming pool (i had sprayed it with crc).
im not expecting an every day tripod, just one that can handle mud, salt water and sand/dirt, that wont need two hours of pulling apart and reassembling everytime i shoot in these conditions.

any suggestions?

cheers paul

[ternst]

"i wrecked another tripod while shooting knee deep in surf today (salt water).
is there any tripods that can handle that kind of abuse?"

Yup - both the Dutch Hill and Sachtler tripods can handle that sort of stuff and it doesn't phase them one bit...

[David WM]

I used to use a Benbo for work in shallow water. The lower extension is reversed to normal design being the larger diameter extension. It is sealed to around 900mm height.

David

[ngophotographer]

Hi Drew:

Welcome to MFDB land...

It actually depends on the body and lenses you're using.  Assuming you are using mirror lockup/pre-release and precise focus, we have found differences (amount of visible shake) between Hasselblad V systems and Mamiya 645 with a P45. It may have to do with the different shutters and mirror timings, but there is a clear difference.

Our experience is primarily "in the field" landscape with "slower" speeds.  Here are some recommendations:

Mamiya 645 & P45:
a) Lenses < 210mm: Gitzo 3-series and ARCA SWISS B1
b) Lenses >= 210mm: Dutch Hill carbon fiber and ARCA SWISS B1G
[Have not tried, but a Gitzo 5 series CF may be fine.]

Hasseblad V & P45:
a) Lenses < 80/120mm: Gitzo 2-series (CF) and ARCA SWISS B1 or Linhof Profi II
b) Lenses > 80/120mm: Gitzo 3-series and ARCA SWISS B1

As you can see, depending on the system and lens choices you can use different tripods/heads.  In addition, if you're standing in surf or a canyon river, you may need some additional support.

Hope this helps.


Rich
NGOphotographer

[pss]

after years with bogen tripods i found myself in need f a very sturdy, tall, but still somewhat compact and light tripod.....and bought the gitzo GT5560SGT with a center colum...yes it is crazy expensive, but i was sick of everything else and cutting corners....the tripod is perfect...supersturdy and with teh latest 6xcarbon series gitzo FINALLY fixed the leg mechanism...one turn is all it takes...and it does not matter which extension (what a concept..it took them years to do this?)....anyway the tripod is still compact, extends to 9ft and carries my RZ without any problems...even if i just extend the center colum....
i used to have the NPC "ball" head which is great (i still have one) but i found the bogen 405 geared head which is great....i find that shooting with pure ball heads sometimes gets out of control, the bogen lets me make chnages fast and keeps the changes on one plane at a time and with the optional gears it really works great....no problem holding cameras on it's side either....

i looked at really reallyrightstuff, but in the end my head would have cost me almost 1000$ with the optional items i wanted (for it to do the same things the bogen head does) but still did not give me a geared option......

[paul_jones]

"i wrecked another tripod while shooting knee deep in surf today (salt water).
is there any tripods that can handle that kind of abuse?"

Yup - both the Dutch Hill and Sachtler tripods can handle that sort of stuff and it doesn't phase them one bit...
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thanks, ive seen this design in the film industry, and they treat their tripods pretty bad.
east to clean.

i like the sound of benbo as well. usefull for awkward positions. are they made anymore?

cheers paul

[David WM]

Looks like they're still around. I Googled Benbo and they came up in the usual places, like B&H. Didn't see a manufacturer's site though.

cheers David

i like the sound of benbo as well. usefull for awkward positions. are they made anymore?
cheers paul
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[Drew Harty]

"It actually depends on the body and lenses you're using.  Assuming you are using mirror lockup/pre-release and precise focus, we have found differences (amount of visible shake) between Hasselblad V systems and Mamiya 645 with a P45. It may have to do with the different shutters and mirror timings, but there is a clear difference."



I will be shooting with a Mamiya 645 and 6x9 Arca Swiss view camera using shorter lens on both.  I am beginning to understand the weakest link in my total camera plus support system will be the view camera, which is more prone to vibration from wind than any other type of camera.  

I think I have decided on the Gitzo 3530LSV tripod (need the height) and either a Markins M-20 head on their platform or a Really Right Stuff BH-55 head.  The Burzynski head looks to be the most stable, but I need a head that allows me to anlge the camera down more than 45 degrees.

Thanks for everyones suggestions,

Drew Harty

[ngophotographer]

I think I have decided on the Gitzo 3530LSV tripod (need the height) and either a Markins M-20 head on their platform or a Really Right Stuff BH-55 head.  The Burzynski head looks to be the most stable, but I need a head that allows me to anlge the camera down more than 45 degrees.

Thanks for everyones suggestions,

Drew Harty
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Drew:

Good luck.  With shorter lenses on the Mamiya 645 you shouldn't have any problems with the Gitzo 3-series CF tripod and the BH-55.  Not personally familiar with the other heads.  Hopefully, you will be able to try-before-you-buy or return/exchange the tripods/heads if one doesn't work out.

Best regards,

Rich
NGOphotographer

[mcfoto]

Hi
I own a Induro DM23 ball head & also the Induro Carbonflex CX214 tripod. I recently used the ball head and loved it. They are new products that the MAC group has.
Denis