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jimboc100

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Need some experienced opinion
« on: March 24, 2007, 01:42:20 pm »

Hi

Im new to this and was wondering which camera would be good as a starter
I am leaning toward the rebel xti but ive seen reviews for the lens (a 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6) that comes in the kit and it seems that no one likes it.
I want to use it for just general use, I am going on a trip to england and i want to take pictures ranging from landscape to close up.
I really cant spend all that much so if anyone has any ideas on where to get stuff cheap that would be much appreciated.
Another thing is that i want it to be deently portable so huge lenses arent going to help me out at all.

another unrelated topic, what does f stop mean in extremly simple terms, i have an idea but i want to be sure

thanks
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wolfnowl

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« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2007, 04:40:16 pm »

Hi There:

Welcome to the list...  There are a number of threads here already on different cameras; you might want to do a quick search and see what you come up with.

In really simple terms... let's see.  Photography is all about light.  Light enters through the lens and strikes either a piece of film coated with chemicals that are sensitive to light, or an electronic sensor that measures and records the light.  There are three ways to control the amount of light reaching the film or sensor.  One is to control the amount of time the film or sensor is exposed to the light - the shutter speed.  The second is the sensitivity of the film or by mimicking that electronically - called ISO after the international standards association.  Most films have a given sensitivity, with electronic cameras you can adjust the sensitivity and trade off higher sensitivity for more electronic noise.

The third way to limit the amount of light reaching the film or sensor is to have a diaphragm within the lens that opens and closes.  These are your f/stops.  Now every f/stop lets in twice as much light or half as much light as the f/stops on either side of it.

So let's assume that we start with an f/stop value of 1.  If we double that we get 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2049, 4096, 8192 and so on.  The numbers get big really fast.  So rather than using absolute numbers it was decided to use the square roots.  Therefore you have 1, 1.4, 2, 2.8, 4, 5.6, 8, 11, 16, 22, etc.  Remember that the bigger the number, the smaller the lens opening.  These numbers would be more correctly written as 1, 1/1.4, 1/2, 1/2.8, etc. as the numbers represent the square roots and each one lets in half as much light.

The actual value of the maximum f/stop depends on the lens diameter, focal length, etc.  Therefore some lenses have a maximum opening of f/3.5 or f/1.7 or something like that.  In the old days f/stops were controlled manually by clicking a dial that opened and closed the diaphragm and so the numbers were pretty much fixed, as were the shutter speeds.  With electronic controls things get a little less fixed.  The trade-off between f/stops is that a greater lens opening yields less depth of field.  A really small f/stop like f/22 can create its own problems.  Entire chapters have been written on this, so this really only begins to skim the surface.

Mike.
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David Anderson

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« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2007, 06:25:43 pm »

Hi,
The kit lens for the Rebel is not the last word in optical quality, but it's not that bad, my wife has the 350D for family snaps and what see gets is fine for that sort of use, it's a good place to start and when you have more money you can look at the other more expensive zooms..
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jule

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« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2007, 09:57:14 pm »

Quote
Hi

Im new to this and was wondering which camera would be good as a starter
I am leaning toward the rebel xti but ive seen reviews for the lens (a 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6) that comes in the kit and it seems that no one likes it.
I want to use it for just general use, I am going on a trip to england and i want to take pictures ranging from landscape to close up.
I really cant spend all that much so if anyone has any ideas on where to get stuff cheap that would be much appreciated.
Another thing is that i want it to be deently portable so huge lenses arent going to help me out at all.

another unrelated topic, what does f stop mean in extremly simple terms, i have an idea but i want to be sure

thanks
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=108455\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If you haven't done much photography before, although the xti is a fabulous starter Digital SLR, I would suggest a Canon G7 - point and shoot- for your trip. The jpegs it produces are fabulous, and it is much more convenient to carry around than an SLR. I have found the lens quality to be great.
 
I have a Canon 1DSmk2 and choose the G7 for times when I don't feel like lugging my 1 around.

If you are learning about f-stops this camera has Automatic modes where you just aim and click, and as you learn more, you can experiment with all the other Program modes.

Cheaper than the xti as well.
Julie
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danmitchell

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« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2007, 10:16:22 pm »

The usual kit lens for the XTi is a 18-55mm lens, not the one you describe. The 18-55mm range is a pretty decent focal length range for a starter lens. The quality is less than what you would find on more expensive lenses, but that's what one would expect. Lots of people are fine with it for starting out.

You would quite possibly not be too happy with a lens whose widest setting was 28mm with this camera. That is not particularly wide at all.

Dan

Quote
Hi

Im new to this and was wondering which camera would be good as a starter
I am leaning toward the rebel xti but ive seen reviews for the lens (a 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6) that comes in the kit and it seems that no one likes it.
I want to use it for just general use, I am going on a trip to england and i want to take pictures ranging from landscape to close up.
I really cant spend all that much so if anyone has any ideas on where to get stuff cheap that would be much appreciated.
Another thing is that i want it to be deently portable so huge lenses arent going to help me out at all.

another unrelated topic, what does f stop mean in extremly simple terms, i have an idea but i want to be sure

thanks
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=108455\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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G Dan Mitchell
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nedavve

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Need some experienced opinion
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2007, 09:23:14 am »

Quote
I really cant spend all that much so if anyone has any ideas on where to get stuff cheap that would be much appreciated.
Another thing is that i want it to be deently portable so huge lenses arent going to help me out at all.

Check out the various zoom lenses at
http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Fi...ses/Zoom_Lenses

Some (relatively) cheap options:

1. EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM
 
Pros: starts wide, has image stabilizer (which gives you a better chance to take low-light shots of non-moving objects without a tripod).

Con: Only works for cameras (such as the Xti) with a 1.6 factor which means that you would have to sell it if you switch to a full-frame (currently much more expensive) camera. 85 mm is also a bit short so if you for example see yourself shooting birds (!) you will need more.

2. A third-party lens with a big range might be a cheap way to start off; it won't give you the same quality, but you can later buy more expensive lenses when you have some experience as to what you really need. One exaple is: Sigma AF 18-200mm Canon /3,5-6,3 DC.  18 mm is wide enough, and 200 mm is great for close-up shots (Canon has a similar 28-200 mm lens, but as other people have pointed out, 28 mm is not wide enough for most people using the Xti).

As an aside, I would also buy the Canon 50mm f/1.8, if you don't mind switching lenses (and if you do you should buy the G7 instead!). It's a bargain that will allow you to take low-light pictures without flash.


Good luck,

Dave
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larsrc

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« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2007, 09:38:06 am »

Quote
If you haven't done much photography before, although the xti is a fabulous starter Digital SLR, I would suggest a Canon G7 - point and shoot- for your trip. The jpegs it produces are fabulous, and it is much more convenient to carry around than an SLR. I have found the lens quality to be great.
 
I have a Canon 1DSmk2 and choose the G7 for times when I don't feel like lugging my 1 around.

If you are learning about f-stops this camera has Automatic modes where you just aim and click, and as you learn more, you can experiment with all the other Program modes.

Cheaper than the xti as well.
Julie
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=108541\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hear hear!  For random shooting by beginners on vacation, an SLR is not the tool.  It's as useful as a HumVee for commute in London - impractically huge, way more expensive than needed, but looks impressive.  I *strongly* recommend getting a G7 or similar compact.  Once you've used that for a year or two, if you find that its inherent limitations are a problem for what you do, *then* get an SLR.  If you don't know what an f/stop is, an SLR is way overkill.  I went through two compacts over five years before I got my first SLR.

-Lars
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larsrc

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« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2007, 07:00:51 am »

Quote
You know you all are right
I've learned alot these past couple of days and have alot to think about now.
As much as i have been thinking about it i think that the best advice is to go with a point and shoot
The G7 is pretty close to being out of my range, the only reason that i had planned to go with the xti was faulty information put out by expresscameras.com.

Does anyone know of any other good point and shoots that would be worth looking into? Also i am not at all attached to any certain brand so any info is great
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=108921\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This is not from my own experience, but I hear good things from several sides about the FujiFilm, esp. the F30.

-Lars
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Goodlistener

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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2007, 09:30:57 pm »

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This is not from my own experience, but I hear good things from several sides about the FujiFilm, esp. the F30.

-Lars
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=108945\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I'm very plelaseed with my new Fuji S31d.  Digital Photo Review www.dpreview.com has a favorable review. But Canon G-7 is a good choice. The most apparent difference is price and physical size.  If you are new to digital photography, a nice pocket ssized point and shoot will give you A LOT of fun.  If you want to, you can see what kinds of pics I personally have had with a small point and shoot at www.pbase.com/goodlistener.

There is one gallery with output from a Canon XTi, Reindog Parade. The rest are all with a older model of Kodak P&S.  Better cameras take more clear sharp pictures, but you can get a real bad picture with a real good camera, and vice versa.

Good luck, and at the end of the day, "just jump in"!
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