Eos 5D

[jd1566]

In separate threads I have speculated on the comoditisation of digital cameras.. Once upon a time you could own the oldest beat up manual SLR and take exactly the same photo as the guy with the million dollar gear...  Product lifecycles for professional gear were about 7 years.. Today that has changed and though I, and I expect many others too, lust after this 5D, there will be a 3D further down the track with the blasted MLU button, and a 1DIII with high frame rates and a 22mpixel sensor.. and beyond that myriad mirco improvements to get us to upgrade, just like software..

However in the software battle, I'm still using Win2000 and office 2000.. and quite productive with both.  I hope the 5D will be that sort of camera for me, reliable, with exactly the features I want (except for flash)...  It will just force me to do available light photography.. as the external flash unit is a brick and a half and detracts from the supposed mission of this camera which is to be discrete and light.

[dwdallam]

My point is that a camera with fewer gaps will be less likely to be affected by falling rain and snow than one that has more gaps.  

Frankly, I'm surprised so many people are concerned about the weather sealing.  I know people who have used Rebel and 20D bodies (neither of which are weather-sealed) in blizzards and pouring rain, and the bodies come through with flying colors.  Obviously if these cameras were dropped in a river and submerged, they'd be in trouble.  Even so, the point is that even the consumer and prosumer bodies are fairly robust, so why the concern over the 5D?

The concern isn't over the immediate damage, but over long-term damage from dust and humidity seeping into lots of places in the camera body. Corrosion is one of those things I'd worry about, for instance, if there was a bit of salt spray here, a sand storm there, and some melted snow there ...

Jani, that is a good point. I live near the caost, and salt is a factor always. I hope my new 20D doesn't melt too soon.

[dwdallam]

In separate threads I have speculated on the comoditisation of digital cameras.. Once upon a time you could own the oldest beat up manual SLR and take exactly the same photo as the guy with the million dollar gear...  Product lifecycles for professional gear were about 7 years.. Today that has changed and though I, and I expect many others too, lust after this 5D, there will be a 3D further down the track with the blasted MLU button, and a 1DIII with high frame rates and a 22mpixel sensor.. and beyond that myriad mirco improvements to get us to upgrade, just like software..

However in the software battle, I'm still using Win2000 and office 2000.. and quite productive with both.  I hope the 5D will be that sort of camera for me, reliable, with exactly the features I want (except for flash)...  It will just force me to do available light photography.. as the external flash unit is a brick and a half and detracts from the supposed mission of this camera which is to be discrete and light.

Yeah this multi thousand dollar camera race is similar to teh computer race, which is slowing down drastically, ex ept for high end modeling people, video, etc. Faster is better. But for the rest of the population, you can only open and use Word and Yahoo so fast.

However, yes, old cameras were as good as anything else, and even a 2000 body was pretty much top of the line for photo jornalists and the like--not those who want the best large format for whatever reason.

So where is that pro level super sealed impact resistant camera for under 3, 000? Will there ever be one? Do photojournalists need more than 8MPS or 13MPs? Where is this going? I mean before digital took off, you could buy a manual 35mm camera that took excellent pictures for 200.00. Now, if you want to get into the game and take really nice pictures, it's 3, 000. Well, the prosumer level cameras are catching up for around 1000, so tht is a good thing, but they can't compare to the 3, 000 cameras that you really do need--I mean including your lenses.

The Sony F828 has been updated with the first camera of that level with a true CMOS sensor and it is nearly as large as the 20D. It is a fixed lens with a 35MM equivalent 28-120 Zieus lens. So thay are getting better, but it's still 1, 000. How many people can afford that for their first photography class--and where I live the entire University--Humboldt State in California, USA--has gone digital.

Anyway, who knows, huh?

[Ben Rubinstein]

What patent infringment problem? My Elan II has it, were'nt canon the first or only to have put in this feature? Personally I want a switch from 'One shot' to AI servo' more than a MLU switch but that #### MLU lost me a beautiful horse picture in Iceland.

[Andrew Larkin]

It would have been interesting to see what could have been accomplished with a pop-up flash on the 5D.  I use the pop-ip on the 10D only as a total last resort because it does not sit high enough to clear the 24-70L lens that I use as standard: result is a big nasty shadow at the bottom of the shot.

Walking around the (car) race track, a large proportion of the pro's working on the interesting side of the fence have multiple cameras/lenses with flash attached.  This struck me as odd considering that they work outdoors in very bright daylight - so I asked one why the flash gun?  The answer was that it was a convenient way to carry the flash in case it was needed.  Sure adds a lot of weight to lug around just on the off chance it might be needed...

Andrew

[Jonathan Wienke]

I use flash during the day all the time to fill shadows. I shot a wedding today and I used flash on every single frame.

[Ben Rubinstein]

FILL FLASH!

[BJL]

The 5D looks like a market response to the NikonD2X.

It looks very different to me, with very different trade-offs in speed, build quality, price, etc.

I instead expect the next Nikon DSLR to compete more directly with the 5D; the much rumored replacement for the aging D100, which is likely to be at a similar level of "advanced amateur/lower budget pro", similar pixel count (10.8 to 12.5 MP), similar lowish frame rate, etc., and priced to compete with the 5D far more than the US$5,000 D2X does. Actually, I expect this next Nikon DSLR to cost far less than the 5D, since the sensor should cost only a little more than the one in the US$1,000 Sony R1.

[jd1566]

Perhaps it fills the space left by Kodak pulling their 14mpixel full frame Canon mount camera..
Or it does exactly what their White Paper said, which is fill in the gap in their line-up.  Makes great business sense..

[Khurram]

1.  I don't care about the built in flash - never use it anyways.
2.  don't care about the MLU - annoying but it is livable
3.   would have been nice to have a faster flash synch - how much would
     it have taken to have 1/250 - most other manufactuers have gone to
     1/300 or higher on some models
4.  can live with the lower frame rate then the 20D
5.  weather sealing would have been nice, but i hav had the 10s, A2E before
      getting a 1v, and hav also use the 7N as a backup without any issues.

BUT....

why the hell isn't there a dedicated FEL button???

i waited for an affordable FFS, even thought about getting the Kodak last year, until most reviews said it was a dog.  so i waited and waited and kept shooting with my trusty 1v, until the offical word came that the 5D was no rumour and was the real deal.  i was sold on it just hearing the price in comparsion to the 1DSII

then i discoverd that like the non 1 series film cameras (not sure about the EOS 3), the 5D also doesn' have a FEL lock button.  which means that with my user preferences (setting custom funtion 4 to "1" - activate AF with the AE Lock (*) button - to seperate AF operation from the shutter release, FEL is not available.

I went down to vistek to see if there was any other option to have FEL available, we went through all of the CF and PF, but found that this $4300 (Can) does not allow FEL to be used if custom fucntion 4 is set to 1.

For me, FEL is critical for weddings, so i will be looking at getting the 1DIIN instead - and given the the price diffetnial between the D200 that nikon is coming about i'm also toying with waiting for that to come out, and seeing if that is not a better viable option - given that i can buy two bodies for less then the cost of 1 IDNII.

[BJL]

3.   would have been nice to have a faster flash synch - how much would
     it have taken to have 1/250 - most other manufactuers have gone to
     1/300 or higher on some models
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As far as I know, all DSLR's with higher flash sync speed than the 5D either
- are higher level bodies like the EOS-1 Digital family, where the extra cost can buy faster shutter  blade movement, or
- have a smaller frame size than the 5D, so that at the same speed, shutter blades can cross the frame at least 50% more quickly. (For example, the E-1 can actually sync at about 1/300 with my Sunpack flash, though the official spec. is far more conservative.)

And any DSLRs with 1/500s sync speed use electronic shuttering to get that, not yet available with any CMOS DSLR sensor.

[Conrad]

Has anyone else had problems with the 5D sensor ? I have now purchased and returned 2 from different retailers. Both cameras had similar problems. Small circles in the same place on different images with a clean sensor. These areas are about 1/4'' when viewed @ 100%.

[Slough]

The 5D looks like a market response to the NikonD2X.  What do you think?  It just happens to come in around $400 less but with about .400 mp more.  Then you could argue the FF vs smaller sensor size of the D2X.  Just these three points could make it easier for the salesman to push the 5D over the D2x.  I don't believe the D2X has a pop up flash or MLU button....hmmmm.  I wonder if the development schedule of the 5D started after the D2X.
Don
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=49458\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It typically takes several years to develop a new consumer electronic product. I suspect that is also the case for a DSLR. An upgrade that uses 90% of the same components as an existing product can be developed much more quickly, but the 5D is clearly not an upgrade.

There's no way the 5D was a direct response to the D2x (in the sense that the D2x significantly influenced the design). It is certainly true that the pricing would have been influenced by the D2x, and all other products on the market. They might also have made small changes to the functionality late in development. But really these things can't be done. Part of the development is the tooling up to produce the components, and that costs a fortune. Software can be changed, and it's probable that things such as the noise reduction algorithms were being worked on right up to the end. That is sometimes why manufacturers often don't allow you to keep images taken with a pre-production unit. But you are still limited by the amount of physical memory and the DSP hardware, which is hard to change.

Leif

[Andrew Larkin]

Has anyone else had problems with the 5D sensor ? I have now purchased and returned 2 from different retailers. Both cameras had similar problems. Small circles in the same place on different images with a clean sensor. These areas are about 1/4'' when viewed @ 100%.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=53052\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

These sound like liquid marks on the sensor - I have seen these on a nearly brand-new 20D.  I think that whatever Canon is cleaning the sensor with during production may be leaving some residue.

Andrew

[BJL]

Sony has forced me to take back what I said here:

And any DSLRs with 1/500s sync speed use electronic shuttering to get that, not yet available with any CMOS DSLR sensor.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=51433\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The new Sony R1 has a CMOS sensor and  uses only electronic shuttering, no FP shutter, going all the way to 1/2000s. Which means flash sync all the way to 1/2000s: an interesting development for those who want fast flash sync without the heavy loss of flash illumination caused by "FP" high speed sync.

[Peter Jon White]

They have left out the ability to use the camera comfortably in full manual mode.

It's the same thing Canon has done with every camera they have ever made with exposure automation built in. They always make manual exposure control difficult to use.

To work in manual you set the 5D's mode knob to "M". That's all well and good. But when you do that and look through the viewfinder, al you see is the focusing screen. To see the exposure settings, you need to partially press the shutter release. Then you get to see your aperture and shutter speed as well as a scale with exposure info for about 4 seconds. Then the information disappears. If you want to see it again, you need to press the shutter release again. If you're working at setting up the shot and using the spot meter you only get to see the results of your adjustments for those same 4 seconds. And there's no way to increase the time the settings remain visible. You have to keep pressing the shutter release.

It's a royal pain in the behind!

With my F-1 the meter keeps reading for 12 seconds or so after pressing the button. Why can't I have an adjustment in the menu to keep the viewfinder information up for a little while longer?

People will squawk that that will eat up the battery. So what? I can buy a few extra batteries. If I want the extra time I should be able to set it and buy some batteries so I can use the camera as I want to.

[Zuikoholic]

People will squawk that that will eat up the battery. So what? I can buy a few extra batteries. If I want the extra time I should be able to set it and buy some batteries so I can use the camera as I want to.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=53572\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Or how about this: there could be a setting in the menu for how long the display remains on - eg., 4sec, 10sec, 20sec. (like the LCD review time). This should then please the majority.

[aaykay]

A question for the 5D owners/users:

How well does the pictures turn out, when shot indoors (low light) with maybe a ISO 400 setting, and without flash ?  With the 24-70 f2.8L (or 16-35 f2.8L) lens ?

On a different note, I wish there was a 24-120 f2.8L with IS (general walkaround lens) available from Canon, even though it would weigh quite a bit.