LCD monitor calibration question

[J_Fulks]

Hi all,
I've got a Samsung SyncMaster 173P LCD monitor connected via DVI to an Nvidia Quadro FX560 PCIe x 16 video card. I just purchased a Pantone/GretagMacbeth Eye-One Display 2 color calibrator that uses the Eye-One Match 3.6 software. The Eye-One Display 2 doesn't have instructions on how to calibrate a monitor connected via DVI. They just tell you to do some kind of "Easy" calibration setup or do an "Advanced" calibration setup that gives you more control over the calibration process. If anyone can help me calibrate this thing I would greatly appreciate it!

Here's some other things to note about my setup --

The Samsung monitor is DDC compliant..there's only an on/off button on the monitor and everything else is controlled via the software that came with the monitor (Natural Color and Magic Tune software packages). The Nvidia Quadro video card also has software called "Nvidia Control Panel" to control gamma, image sharpening, contrast, digital vibrance, and brightness.

Other than the "Display Properties" found in the XP control panel, I have recently installed the Microsoft Color Control Panel Applet to help me manage my monitor profiles. I've not changed any of the default settings on the monitor, as I just built this computer system four days ago. The only thing I've done is loaded the Samsung monitor drivers and installed the Natural Color and Magic Tune software that came with the monitor. I haven't used the Eye-One Display 2 yet...because I didn't want to mess with any of the default monitor settings until I know for sure how to calibrate the monitor.

Currently the monitor profile is set to default to "Samsung - Natural Color Pro 1.0 ICM". And Adobe Gamma is in the Windows Startup folder.

Can someone advise me where to go from here? I would greatly appreciate any help!

Thanks,

Jason

[61Dynamic]

The process is fairly simple; it's just a matter of ignoring what you don't need to touch..

1. Set the monitor to its default settings.
2. Launch EyeOne and go to Advanced (never use Easy, it won't do it right)
3. White-Point & Gamma: Two options here.
--a. For best results, set these to "Native." This will prevent adjustments to the LUTs reducing image quality.
--b. If the native white-point is not the typical 6500K, then you will want to set it to 6500K and then choose 2.2 Gamma. Most color-accurate monitors will let you take option a.
4. Set brightness option to 120cd/m2. Any brighter and it can negatively effect your ability to gauge tonal adjustments (not to mention strain your eyes)
5. Run the calibration software and only adjust Brightness. Ignore the options to adjust anything else.
6. When the software is done, you'll be done.

There are more extensive discussions on the subject if you search around this forum and want to learn the technical aspects of it. But to get it done and done right, my steps here are all you need.

[J_Fulks]

1. Set the monitor to its default settings.
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Thanks for your help 61Dynamic. I'm relieved to hear that I will be able to calibrate this monitor the correct way, however I'm still unclear on a couple of things...

- "default" in this case is whatever the monitor software settings were whenever I first installed the monitor drivers?

- should I uninstall the "magic tune" and "natural color" software packages that came on the CD with the monitor drivers, or should I leave those packages installed?

- Will I need to do anything with the Adobe Gamma found in the startup folder? Should I leave it there, or will it interfere with the new eye-one profile in any way?



Thanks again,

Jason

[61Dynamic]

The default settings are found in the LCDs on-screen menu.

You won't need any of the software that came on the LCDs CD to calibrate it.

Don't ever touch Adobe Gamma otherwise your calibration will be undone. Make sure it is not set to start up when you boot your computer by deleting it from the startup folder.

[Tom.D.Arch]

The Samsung monitor is DDC compliant..there's only an on/off button on the monitor and everything else is controlled via the software that came with the monitor (Natural Color and Magic Tune software packages).
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It sounds like part of Jason's problems are that it isn't clear how to control the monitor.  (I haven't seen these monitors in person, and I'm a bit surprised that there are no physical buttons other than power - sounds like a bad choice on Samsung's part).  It sounds like Jason needs to figure out how to control the settings of the monitor without that software screwing up the profile settings.

[J_Fulks]

It sounds like part of Jason's problems are that it isn't clear how to control the monitor..... It sounds like Jason needs to figure out how to control the settings of the monitor without that software screwing up the profile settings.
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Tom, the only way to control the monitor is through the "Magic Tune" and "Natural Color" software applications. There are no buttons to push that offers an OSD. However (and I have not tried this), you can hold down the power button for 3 seconds and the monitor will perform an auto adjustment. I haven't tried it because I don't particularly trust "auto" anything when it comes to computer devices. It's a fairly nice LCD...700:1 contrast ratio, 270 cd/m2 brightness, 178 degree vertical and horizontal viewing angle, pivoting screen for portrait style display. It was $700.00 USD new, but it's still consumer grade, and only 17"...but, I guess being that as it is, it's still sub-par for professional digital imaging requirements.

I'm going to attempt to calibrate it based on what information I've received here and information I've received from other forums. I would truely like to have a color managed setup, but I don't necessarily want to shell out $1200.00 for an Eizo ColorEdge (and especially since I've just spent $2600.00 + putting together my current Windows machine), so I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best with this Samsung.

[61Dynamic]

Tom, the only way to control the monitor is through the "Magic Tune" and "Natural Color" software applications. There are no buttons to push that offers an OSD. However (and I have not tried this), you can hold down the power button for 3 seconds and the monitor will perform an auto adjustment. I haven't tried it because I don't particularly trust "auto" anything when it comes to computer devices...

I'm going to attempt to calibrate it based on what information I've received here and information I've received from other forums. I would truely like to have a color managed setup, but I don't necessarily want to shell out $1200.00 for an Eizo ColorEdge (and especially since I've just spent $2600.00 + putting together my current Windows machine), so I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best with this Samsung.
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Well, if it doesn't have buttons I guess you will need that software after all. Eye-One Match is DDC compliant and should adjust brightness automatically for you. I don't have a DDC display, nor have I had a chance to calibrate one so I don't have first-hand experience there. It should be simple and strait-forward though.

As to the auto-adjust you want to de-activate that in the monitors software as that will undo your calibration.

[J_Fulks]

Well, if it doesn't have buttons I guess you will need that software after all. Eye-One Match is DDC compliant and should adjust brightness automatically for you.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102074\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So, I would use the advanced calibration mode when Eye-One's Match software prompts me to choose between advanced and easy mode? And, since I don't have push buttons on the monitor to control RGB, contrast, and etc. Match will take care of all of that for me?

I really hope I can get this thing calibrated... Thank you fellas so much for your help with this. I really appreciate it!

[61Dynamic]

So, I would use the advanced calibration mode when Eye-One's Match software prompts me to choose between advanced and easy mode? And, since I don't have push buttons on the monitor to control RGB, contrast, and etc. Match will take care of all of that for me?

I really hope I can get this thing calibrated... Thank you fellas so much for your help with this. I really appreciate it!
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Yes, always use the advanced calibration. The easy one dumbs it down too much and will adjust stuff it really shouldn't.

Using your monitor's software set the monitor to it's default settings first (I'm assuming it can do so). Once you are in Eye-One simply select "Next" for the RGB and contrast adjustments to skip them so that nothing gets changed there. Once you hit "begin" for the brightness calibration Eye-One should adjust brightness automatically for you. If not, then use your monitors software to do it.

Oh, and before you begin, open the preferences for Eye-One and set "Monitor profile size" to "Large (LUT)" as that is more accurate than the default matrix profile.

[jackbingham]

Being ddc compliant requires three things to happen. The monitor has to provide access to the hardware adjustments within the monitor using the standard protocol, the video card has to support the protocol as well and the display calibration tool needs to also. If the monitor uses a less than standard approach to ddc then the software needs a special conditon created for that monitor. All the other software tools like those from nvidea just get in the way. Depending on what the Samsung software does that is most likely true of it as well. If it facilitates communication between Match and the monitor it is a good thing. If it is designed to adjust the monitor without the sensor being involved you should uninstall it and pretend you never got it.

[J_Fulks]

The monitor has to provide access to the hardware adjustments within the monitor using the standard protocol, the video card has to support the protocol as well and the display calibration tool needs to also.[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The monitor's [a href=\"http://www.samsung.com/my/products/monitor/syncmasterlcd/173p.asp]specifications[/url] states that it is DDC compliant (DDC 2B). It has a DVI-D input and a standard VGA style input.

As far as the video card concerned, I can't find any detailed information in the manual or online that states it is DDC compliant. It's a PNY Nvidia Quadro FX 560 with two DVI-I outputs, dual-link capable (single link displaying 1920 X 1200 res). I'm assuming that by the pure nature of the card being DVI and the features that it has, it is indeed DDC compliant.

The Nvidia software ("nView" and "Nvidia Control Panel") has no means to uninstall them. All the Nvidia controls are stored in the "C:\Windows\System32" folder, so one can't really go to "Add/Remove Programs" in the control panel and delete the Nvidia stuff. Currently, all the settings on the Nvidia software apps are at what Nvidia calls "default". When I installed the drivers for the card it didn't appear to change my display from what the Windows generic monitor driver displayed upon first installing the card into the system, so I hope I'm good as far as "default" and Nvidia are concerned.

Two issues not mentioned before have me a little confused:

- The two different types of DVI connections between the LCD and video card...the monitor being DVI-D and the video card being DVI-I. Are they compatible? I suppose if they weren't my display would be blank right now, but does this affect DDC in any way?

- The issue of the ability of the Nvidia video card's software to set default profiles. I think the Nvidia is actually referencing the profiles found in "Display Properties->Settings->Advanced->Color Management", but I have not changed it via the Nvidia software to test this (testing to see if changing it there would change it in the Display Properties also).

One last thing...I found a setting on the monitor's software to set everything back to the factory default settings. It's under a "Presets" heading in the software. I made sure to set it back to the factory default settings There's also an option there to "enable color calibration"...I'm guessing I need to have this option disabled, right?

Again, thank you guys for your help. I could not begin to figure this out on my own...your expertise in this is much appreciated.

[61Dynamic]

You can leave the nVidia software on your computer without issue. Just don't change any settings in it. You might also want to make sure nothing from nVidia is running at startup; not because it could change display settings but because it uses resources unnecessarily.

As to DDC compliance, you are letting things get too complicated. Here's how to test if your system will utilize DDC: Run Eye-One Match. If it automatically adjusts brightness, it is fully DDC compatible. If it does not, then it is not fully DDC compatible. Simple.

One last thing...I found a setting on the monitor's software to set everything back to the factory default settings. It's under a "Presets" heading in the software. I made sure to set it back to the factory default settings There's also an option there to "enable color calibration"...I'm guessing I need to have this option disabled, right?

That's correct. Eye-One will take care of that. You do not want multiple sources adjusting monitor calibration as each one will undue the previous efforts.

[gear junkie22]

J-

I have the Samsung 193P (not the inferior "Plus" version), with an NVIDIA 7900GT, and use an EyeOne Display 2.  (I too was a fool to purchase a monitor without any buttons for an OSD, I've regretted it ever since I bought the thing.  Unfortunately, I was swayed by all of the excellent reviews of it's image quality.  I'm now on the quest for a 19" S-IPS display.)  

All of the advice that I've read above sounds correct.

1.  Don't use the NVIDIA control panel to adjust ANYTHING, leave it as-is (If you use this instead of MagicTune, it really screws up the shadow detail and the blacks.)
2.  Delete Adobe Gamma from the Windows "Startup" folder
3.  Use MagicTune only (and download the latest version!)
4.  After resetting all of the controls to default, go through the "advanced" calibration process
5.  Don't adjust the default contrast
6.  Do adjust the Brightness
7.  Follow the remaining instructions and complete the process

Also, I'll not that I got a better calibration using 6500K instead of "Native", but YMMV.  Also, I calibrated the screen to a Luminance of 120.  After calibration, this screen really does produce rich, deep blacks with lots of shadow detail.  The problem comes with the color/contrast shift with movements as small as a few inches.  I'll never buy another non-S-IPS screen again, because of this.

I hope this helps you out, have fun!

[Serge Cashman]

So essentially these monitors can be only controlled via DDC but not by EyeOne Match3.

That's interesting. I wonder if white point targets achieved using DDC would result in better image quality than same targets achieved via VC LUTs.

gear junkie22 - Why do you perceive 6500K as "better"? Not a trick question - just want to know what gives you a more positive impression.

[J_Fulks]

I have the Samsung 193P (not the inferior "Plus" version), with an NVIDIA 7900GT, and use an EyeOne Display 2.  (I too was a fool to purchase a monitor without any buttons for an OSD, I've regretted it ever since I bought the thing.  Unfortunately, I was swayed by all of the excellent reviews of it's image quality.  I'm now on the quest for a 19" S-IPS display.) [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102171\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I wish I was more aware of color management when I got my 173p. I will replace it as soon as the finances allow. Probably should get a head start on that by researching the S-IPS vs. S-PVA debate. =)

Well, I used the Eye-One to calibrate my monitor tonight....finally! From the best that I can tell the calibration was successful. Now, I don't know what that means for a monitor like this, but I'll send out images tomorrow for printing and when they come back hopefully I'll see a close resemblance between the monitor and the prints.

During the calibration, I bypassed the RGB and Contrast adjustments. I manually adjusted the luminance here using the Samsung Magic Tune software, as you guys instructed me to do...going back and forth between Magic Tune and Eye-One's Match until I was as close as possible to the 120 target that I specified at the start of the calibration. I got it set at 120.7 during this adjustment.

The ambient light measurement option confused me a little. I bypassed that step. I calibrated the monitor in a dark room so no outside light sources could interfere. I set the targets up front just as you guys said to; 2.2 Gamma, 6500K White Point, Luminance at 120.

The results at the end, according to Match, were good. The White Point target of 6500K was met ... The 2.2 Gamma target was matched... and the Luminance ended up being 121 vs. the 120 target. However, the lines on the graph showing the results were a little bent, and they all didn't come together in the upper right corner of the graph..is that an issue at all?

The only thing that has me guessing whether the calibration is good or not are my first impressions of some images I looked at in PS post-calibration. Compared to the sRGB images displayed in IE explorer (I had my monitor profile set to sRGB when I originally worked the photos...so PS and IE appeard the same), the same images in PS appeared to have a slight hint of magenta....noticeable mostly in clouds and over skin tones. It's very slight. I'm just wondering if that is a result of the images being worked in PS prior to the Eye-One calibration, now needing to be reworked post-calibration? Or, is the calibration off?

I guess only the prints will tell....

Again, I can't thank you guys enough. I put this question out in numerous forums and LL is the only forum where a real solution was offered. I'm here to stay.

[J_Fulks]

.. I'm here to stay.
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.... with a copy of Real World Color Management on the way from Amazon, so I don't have to ask so many questions in the future. =)

[gear junkie22]

Serge-

The Native (6700K) profiled ended up looking just a bit too cool for my tastes.


J-

I'm glad everything worked out for you.

[61Dynamic]

However, the lines on the graph showing the results were a little bent, and they all didn't come together in the upper right corner of the graph..is that an issue at all?

The only thing that has me guessing whether the calibration is good or not are my first impressions of some images I looked at in PS post-calibration. Compared to the sRGB images displayed in IE explorer (I had my monitor profile set to sRGB when I originally worked the photos...so PS and IE appeard the same), the same images in PS appeared to have a slight hint of magenta....noticeable mostly in clouds and over skin tones. It's very slight. I'm just wondering if that is a result of the images being worked in PS prior to the Eye-One calibration, now needing to be reworked post-calibration? Or, is the calibration off?

I guess only the prints will tell....

Again, I can't thank you guys enough. I put this question out in numerous forums and LL is the only forum where a real solution was offered. I'm here to stay.
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It sounds like you did things just right.

Some change in the curve at the end of calibration is normal. Don't worry about it, that graph is there mostly to look cool than to give you any useful info.

Don't second guess the calibration based on what you did before you calibrated. How images look in IE don't mean jack-squat. IE is not color managed and when you had sRGB set as the monitor profile your colors were wrong since sRGB is not a monitor profile.

[61Dynamic]

That's interesting. I wonder if white point targets achieved using DDC would result in better image quality than same targets achieved via VC LUTs.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102230\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Adjustments to the video card LUTs are adjusting an 8bpc image, not any physical attribute of the display. DDC will adjust the brightness of the backlight of the display itself and thusly will result in superior calibration results.

The promise of DDC for calibration is that it allows software to make fine-adjustments to the physical calibration of a monitor that are far more accurate than what a person can do with buttons on the display. Unfortunately, proper support for DDC is not as common as it should be.

[J_Fulks]

61Dynamic and Gear Junkie, Thanks again.

After a day with the new profile my eyes have adjusted to it....analyzed some previous work and can see much more detail in the shadows and the blacks look black. Skin tones appear more natural. I think it was worth the investment.

Now to figure out the idea of soft proofing with PS.... no rest for the weary!

61, I've read some of your blogs and tutorials...good stuff!