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Author Topic: Hy6 vs H3D - Buyer's eval process  (Read 99255 times)

SeanBK

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Hy6 vs H3D - Buyer's eval process
« Reply #120 on: February 09, 2007, 10:14:01 am »

Personally, I think Rehnniar, you shouldn't worry @ it. It is the content that counts. Remember there are lotsa people who use LiveBooks, Everium & other sites. Also your site is very clean, something your clients-Architects would like.
   One does not have to reinvent the wheel, website is just to display images.
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Dustbak

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Hy6 vs H3D - Buyer's eval process
« Reply #121 on: February 09, 2007, 10:51:42 am »

Quote
Personally, I think Rehnniar, you shouldn't worry @ it. It is the content that counts. Remember there are lotsa people who use LiveBooks, Everium & other sites. Also your site is very clean, something your clients-Architects would like.
   One does not have to reinvent the wheel, website is just to display images.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100024\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sure right. I have looked at both sites.

The Griffith one has been built completely different (doesn't work properly in Opera). The design of both is very similar however both are almost as simple as a piece of white paper. Would be nice to have that copyrighted (or any other simple variation on that theme).

Nice thread which is going into all directions. Sorry for the sidestep Ethan
« Last Edit: February 09, 2007, 10:52:27 am by Dustbak »
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Ethan Schoonover

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Hy6 vs H3D - Buyer's eval process
« Reply #122 on: February 09, 2007, 12:01:12 pm »

Quote
Sure right. I have looked at both sites.

The Griffith one has been built completely different (doesn't work properly in Opera). The design of both is very similar however both are almost as simple as a piece of white paper. Would be nice to have that copyrighted (or any other simple variation on that theme).

Nice thread which is going into all directions. Sorry for the sidestep Ethan
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100030\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No problem. I'm not sure what top level category a website discussion thread goes in... not coffee corner... maybe there is a case to be made for a Business Issues forum section? Michael?

In any case, I am sensitive to the issues regarding the website design. I do about one site a month for other photographers (primarily integrated with Photoshelter) and many of them will have a favorite site that they like a lot before they come to me. It's important to me to never copy another site design. But at the same time, there's little that is completely new under the sun regarding web design. Almost everything is an evolved design or an amalgam of other styles.

Look at all the web 2.0 sites out there... glossy buttons, reflected logos. It's as much design trends as imitation. There is a fine line between the two, of course.

I bet I could find a dozen minimalist photographic sites out there that look similar but were designed entirely independently... that's not to say that designs aren't ripped off from time to time (and when they clearly are, should be changed) but the fewer design elements that there are to play with, the high the likelihood the site will appear similar.

And really, it's all about the photos on the sites in question. great work that stands out regardless.
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pss

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Hy6 vs H3D - Buyer's eval process
« Reply #123 on: February 09, 2007, 01:14:18 pm »

am i the only one here who does not think of comparing cameras or a backs as some kind of olympic games? this is not about who goes to the finishline first or who jumps highest....this is about how YOU as a photographer can get YOUR point across....this cannot be measured it can be judged but one would have to take into consideration the panel and how much YOU value that judgement.......


the "great shoot out" can be under any rules..fair ...whatever...who will judge which back is better? i have owned leaf and phase backs and i did not stop using one for the other because of artifacts? i tested all backs and found no real problems with either one....i definitely had personal favorites in regard to look, color and how it would work for me and my workflow....no test in the world could help me with that....


since we are talking about 30-40mpix backs resolution really isn't a problem anymore....some backs provide cleaner high iso....some shoot faster then others...some have better screens, some larger ones....well it depends what you shoot, make your choice accordingly!
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Morgan_Moore

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« Reply #124 on: February 09, 2007, 02:23:38 pm »

Quote
some backs provide cleaner high iso....some shoot faster then others...some have better screens, some larger ones....well it depends what you shoot, make your choice accordingly!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100054\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think the value of chatting about all this gear hjelping others  not falling down an unseen hole

To me gear is pretty simlple but there are holes to fall into..

Mamiya - slow flash ??

HY6 lack of wide ??

P20 crop factor ??

Blad no TS ??

Sinar backs - low iso ??

Phase no current camera ??

ZD flimsy construction ??

Leaf centerfold with View cam lenses ??

H3 horrible upright ??

etc

Each will be a hole only for specific individauls and doesnt make that set up innapropriate for all

Each system will also be an excellent tool for others

Each user should make thier choice with thier eyes open
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Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

pss

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Hy6 vs H3D - Buyer's eval process
« Reply #125 on: February 09, 2007, 02:42:17 pm »

Quote
I think the value of chatting about all this gear hjelping others  not falling down an unseen hole

To me gear is pretty simlple but there are holes to fall into..

Mamiya - slow flash ??

HY6 lack of wide ??

P20 crop factor ??

Blad no TS ??

Sinar backs - low iso ??

Phase no current camera ??

ZD flimsy construction ??

Leaf centerfold with View cam lenses ??

H3 horrible upright ??

etc

Each will be a hole only for specific individauls and doesnt make that set up innapropriate for all

Each system will also be an excellent tool for others

Each user should make thier choice with thier eyes open
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100060\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


i could not agree more...but all your points/questions have been raised 100x times in this forum...do a search on th eHy6 and you will get 50 threads with the same questions and the same pros and cons....with the same people (including myself) stating the same opinions over and over.....i wish people would do a search instead of simply starting the same thing over again....
that is what is wrong with this forum: every thread turns into the same discussion.....

btw: solved the mamiya sync problem with the phase RZ adapter....rotates, no cable, shot with it yesterday....i can focus the RZ easier then the 645afdII....and for studio fashion i still prefer manual focus...
anyway..all of a sudden i have a system with a choice of bodies (small, 645af, "point&shoot" OR WLF, rotating back, 1/400sync, studio horse)....amazing range of lenses (great and CHEAP) including several T/S options (both for 645 and RZ via adapters or single lenses)......i am still waiting for the Hy6 but the wait just got a lot easier.....
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rainer_v

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Hy6 vs H3D - Buyer's eval process
« Reply #126 on: February 09, 2007, 03:16:12 pm »

new webpage is online, although clearly not finished....  ( i will update it now slowly with individual images for the different projects ).  

i wanted to throw away the menues since longer time, cause never i get them updated.
think its more practical now. feedback is welcome.....                

thanks for kicking me awake.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2007, 03:17:08 pm by rehnniar »
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rainer viertlböck
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med007

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« Reply #127 on: February 09, 2007, 03:59:09 pm »

Quote
new webpage is online, although clearly not finished....  ( i will update it now slowly with individual images for the different projects ).  

i wanted to throw away the menues since longer time, cause never i get them updated.
think its more practical now. feedback is welcome.....               

thanks for kicking me awake.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's exactly the look I want to copy, sorry, emulate!

I'd love to use a version for my own personal site and for OPF for the editing "Challenges".

This is so clean, it's awesome! Still, could you spare 2 little arrows too!

Asher

[a href=\"http://www.openphotographyforums.com]http://www.openphotographyforums.com[/url]
« Last Edit: February 09, 2007, 04:01:58 pm by med007 »
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rainer_v

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Hy6 vs H3D - Buyer's eval process
« Reply #128 on: February 09, 2007, 06:15:01 pm »

Quote
That's exactly the look I want to copy, sorry, emulate!

I'd love to use a version for my own personal site and for OPF for the editing "Challenges".

This is so clean, it's awesome! Still, could you spare 2 little arrows too!

Asher

http://www.openphotographyforums.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100079\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

thanks asher,
you can feel free.
( but never use three single lines
on white backgrounds anymore ( just kidding )).....
« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 04:04:04 pm by rehnniar »
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rainer viertlböck
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Ethan Schoonover

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« Reply #129 on: February 10, 2007, 01:54:36 am »

Quote
i could not agree more...but all your points/questions have been raised 100x times in this forum...do a search on th eHy6 and you will get 50 threads with the same questions and the same pros and cons....with the same people (including myself) stating the same opinions over and over.....i wish people would do a search instead of simply starting the same thing over again....
that is what is wrong with this forum: every thread turns into the same discussion.....

btw: solved the mamiya sync problem with the phase RZ adapter....rotates, no cable, shot with it yesterday....i can focus the RZ easier then the 645afdII....and for studio fashion i still prefer manual focus...
anyway..all of a sudden i have a system with a choice of bodies (small, 645af, "point&shoot" OR WLF, rotating back, 1/400sync, studio horse)....amazing range of lenses (great and CHEAP) including several T/S options (both for 645 and RZ via adapters or single lenses)......i am still waiting for the Hy6 but the wait just got a lot easier.....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100065\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm not sure if you are implying that I raised questions that could have been answered by a search. I suspect not and that you are referring to the rest of the subsequent thread, but I wanted to clarify that my original post stated explicitly that it was meant as a glimpse into how the existing forum threads (which I've been monitoring and searching for a year and a half), LL reviews, and actual real world local dealer experience were informing my purchase decisions. My primary intent was to provide information (personal buying experience "in progress") as something that might be useful to Thierry, other suppliers and potential buyers in a similar situation.

Yet, as you state, the same issues do come up in many threads, this included, regardless of the initial post. And assuming that there are "right answers" to these MFDB issues (a point that I think many would debate in itself) then it certainly is frustrating to see the same questions asked repeatedly.

One solution might be a persistent FAQ of common questions and answers to MFDB issues. Perhaps you (and or others) would volunteer to put something together? This is a sincere suggestion in the spirit of the the LL community. Your point is valid and it might be useful to have such a summary. The only issue I see there is finding agreement on what the correct answers to all frequently asked questions are. Might even be a job for a wiki where multiple viewpoints could be stated.

Morgan's list is a great summary (big thanks, Morgan). If there was a sticky FAQ or a wiki-like sub site with information like that and more (which could include alternate view points or pros/cons) it would go a long way to mitigating the repetitive posts and threads.

As much as we may want it to be, forum searches before posting (which should always be encouraged, of course) are simply not a single solution to the issue. A sticky, locked FAQ "read before posting" thread might actually help, if agreement on its contents could be reached. From what I see on the forums, however, that's a big "if".

Any other solutions?
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med007

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« Reply #130 on: February 10, 2007, 02:13:26 am »

Quote
I'm not sure if you are implying that I raised questions that could have been answered by a search. I suspect not and that you are referring to the rest of the subsequent thread, but I wanted to clarify that my original post stated explicitly that it was meant as a glimpse into how the existing forum threads (which I've been monitoring and searching for a year and a half), LL reviews, and actual real world local dealer experience were informing my purchase decisions. My primary intent was to provide information (personal buying experience "in progress") as something that might be useful to Thierry, other suppliers and potential buyers in a similar situation.

Yet, as you state, the same issues do come up in many threads, this included, regardless of the initial post. And assuming that there are "right answers" to these MFDB issues (a point that I think many would debate in itself) then it certainly is frustrating to see the same questions asked repeatedly.

One solution might be a persistent FAQ of common questions and answers to MFDB issues. Perhaps you (and or others) would volunteer to put something together? This is a sincere suggestion in the spirit of the the LL community. Your point is valid and it might be useful to have such a summary. The only issue I see there is finding agreement on what the correct answers to all frequently asked questions are. Might even be a job for a wiki where multiple viewpoints could be stated.

Morgan's list is a great summary (big thanks, Morgan). If there was a sticky FAQ or a wiki-like sub site with information like that and more (which could include alternate view points or pros/cons) it would go a long way to mitigating the repetitive posts and threads.

As much as we may want it to be, forum searches before posting (which should always be encouraged, of course) are simply not a single solution to the issue. A sticky, locked FAQ "read before posting" thread might actually help, if agreement on its contents could be reached. From what I see on the forums, however, that's a big "if".

Any other solutions?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100134\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I would love to receive all and any personal opinions as to what works foryour particular end use or your clients. I'll be happy to maintain an edited review which I could repost for opinions at intervals. In OPF, we have Pro photographers who already have their systems and others who are really are flummexed!

However, it's all a matter of whether you would be so kind as to share with me your own experences, just a line or two with an ocasional image if you want.

This is something that is really needed. So I'd be delighted if there is support.

Asher Kelman

http:.//www.openphotographyforums.com
« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 02:14:24 am by med007 »
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Ethan Schoonover

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Hy6 vs H3D - Buyer's eval process
« Reply #131 on: February 10, 2007, 03:24:36 am »

Quote
I would love to receive all and any personal opinions as to what works foryour particular end use or your clients. I'll be happy to maintain an edited review which I could repost for opinions at intervals. In OPF, we have Pro photographers who already have their systems and others who are really are flummexed!

However, it's all a matter of whether you would be so kind as to share with me your own experences, just a line or two with an ocasional image if you want.

This is something that is really needed. So I'd be delighted if there is support.

Asher Kelman

http:.//www.openphotographyforums.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100136\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Not sure if it's useful, but here's a more complete list of criteria I'm using to evaluate systems under consideration. This would really only be useful in an online database (I'm spreadsheeting it, but it's grown past a good size for spreadsheet viewing), but may be useful as what david allen calls a "trigger list" for feedback purposes. I've added "use cases" to this now, though for me personally I'm only considering in studio. Clearly there is overlap between the use cases as well.

Basics
Model
Pixels
Sensor Format
Multiplier/Crop Factor
ISO Range
Capture Speed
Sync Speed
Known Sensor Anomalies
Shooting Mode
Battery Specs/Avg.duration
Image Storage
Shutter speed range

Body
Ergonomics
Construction
Display Type
Film Back Cost
Histogram
IR Filter
Host Connection Type
Dimensions
Weight
Viewfinder options

Back specific
View camera adapter cost

Dealer issues
Dealer Support notes
Spare during Repair?
Warranty period and details

Software/File Formats
File Format Support
Capture software eval
Integartion with Aperture/Lightroom
DNG support/issues
Bit Depth
Software known issues

Lenses
Lens Selection
Number of lenses available for system, non model specific
Number of lenses available for system, model specific
Lens deficiencies/issues
T/S availability

System Cost

Use Cases
In studio use +/-
On location use +/-
Architectural use +/-
Portrait use +/-
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Kumar

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Hy6 vs H3D - Buyer's eval process
« Reply #132 on: February 10, 2007, 03:49:51 am »

May I suggest that "Use Cases" be the first thing to consider? For example, for an architectural photographer like me, the P30, regardless of its many other positive features, is simply not a choice.

I generally shoot only 15~20 images a day, so speed and workflow issues are not relevant at all for me, though for a fashion photographer, speeds of 2s per frame would be a deal breaker.

Cheers,
Kumar
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Ethan Schoonover

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« Reply #133 on: February 10, 2007, 04:40:20 am »

Quote
May I suggest that "Use Cases" be the first thing to consider? For example, for an architectural photographer like me, the P30, regardless of its many other positive features, is simply not a choice.

I generally shoot only 15~20 images a day, so speed and workflow issues are not relevant at all for me, though for a fashion photographer, speeds of 2s per frame would be a deal breaker.

Cheers,
Kumar
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100140\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Good point Kumar. They aren't ordered yet and they also mix quantitative/qualitative data. They could even be "weighted" to come up with a scoring system, but I'm not sure how i'd do that effectively...
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thsinar

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« Reply #134 on: February 10, 2007, 09:06:56 am »

Quote
My primary intent was to provide information (personal buying experience "in progress") as something that might be useful to Thierry, other suppliers and potential buyers in a similar situation.

Any other solutions?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100134\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, Ethan!

This first goal has been reached, concerning myself and Sinar: we have taken good notice of your points and what seems important in a purchase decision process.

Thanks again for that!
Thierry
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Thierry Hagenauer
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Caracalla

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Hy6 vs H3D - Buyer's eval process
« Reply #135 on: February 10, 2007, 09:59:26 am »

Quote
They could even be "weighted" to come up with a scoring system, but I'm not sure how i'd do that effectively...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100142\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

:: Excellent Idea ::
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heinrichvoelkel

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« Reply #136 on: February 10, 2007, 02:21:04 pm »

Quote
new webpage is online, although clearly not finished....  ( i will update it now slowly with individual images for the different projects ).   

i wanted to throw away the menues since longer time, cause never i get them updated.
think its more practical now. feedback is welcome.....               

thanks for kicking me awake.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100070\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


that's a sick web page. Sick= great. I really like the imagery. Great stuff you show and the design is well thought through as well. I bookmarked it.

thank you for showing

regrds
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rainer_v

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« Reply #137 on: February 10, 2007, 02:43:57 pm »

Quote
that's a sick web page. Sick= great. I really like the imagery. Great stuff you show and the design is well thought through as well. I bookmarked it.

thank you for showing

regrds
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100222\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

... thank you ...
tomorrow 13 hours in airplane.
will have time to proceed.....
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rainer viertlböck
architecture photograp

thsinar

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« Reply #138 on: February 10, 2007, 02:56:46 pm »

Quote
... thank you ...
tomorrow 13 hours in airplane.
will have time to proceed.....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100226\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


hi Rainer,

i find it fantastic as well. Especially, knowing you and your work for quite a time, I could not understand these attacks.

Great work!

And safe journey tomorrow, wherever you go.

Thierry
« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 03:04:56 pm by thsinar »
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Thierry Hagenauer
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med007

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Hy6 vs H3D - Buyer's eval process
« Reply #139 on: February 11, 2007, 06:45:29 pm »

Quote
hi Rainer,

i find it fantastic as well. Especially, knowing you and your work for quite a time, I could not understand these attacks.

Great work!

And safe journey tomorrow, wherever you go.

Thierry
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
We've started to receive purpose-specific RAW image files for free doownload with limited license and © info.

Just supply subject/industry specific shots taken accordfing to usual standards, but *** shot not needed. Just good focus and exposure. Add aperture and shutter speed and lens name if not in EXIF.

Send to me RAWS via htto://www.you sendit.com.

We are testing the search interface and will have a beta up shortly.

[a href=\"http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2129]Asher Kelman[/url]
« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 06:48:36 pm by med007 »
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