How to De Curl Un Curl get rid of Roll Paper Curl - Is this a Joke

[wickedweather]

My head is about to come off. Working with Hahnemuhle FA Baryta Satin 44" roll coming off Canon 4100. Is the curl that I'm getting normal? It seems so pronounced. I have tried the reverse roll method by using a heavy stock of wrapping paper but every time I do this, I put a nice dent in the print. I was able to successfully do it with a 13X19 sheet of Photo Rag Metallic but that only had a slight curl. The 44" roll stuff is a nightmare.

Just wondering what, if anything, I can be doing here? What temperature do I want the room to be? Humidity? Do I need to lay some heavy plywood on top for a while before I try and take the curl out?

[bellevuefineart]

It's normal. You need to purchase or make a d-roller.

https://youtu.be/A6zEOpdqlk4?si=hBF2qpb9WLx76Q0F

[wickedweather]

It's normal. You need to purchase or make a d-roller.

https://youtu.be/A6zEOpdqlk4?si=hBF2qpb9WLx76Q0F

Thanks. This seems to be exactly what I've been doing - albeit with a 3" wrapping paper. Although I did appreciate his tip near the mid/end of the video about thicker papers. I'll give that a go. Also, I'm wondering of a larger core would be better. I've got some 5" packaging tubes coming in that seem like it would potentially handle the thicker papers more gently.

[Richard.Wills]

If you're not printing large images, use a 24" roll - makes the handling easier. I find that longer gangs of images help with wrangling baryta papers.
When humidity is low, I'll let a couple of feet hang off the roll for a few minutes, before loading, to take the the curl out from the beginning of the roll, and once loaded, leave 4-8 inches of paper blank before print starts.
I tend to run sections mot more than 72" long, and tape them to a wall to dry for a day or two,

Unless I run an entire roll from beginning to end in one session, I find the last 4-6 feet unusable, because of the curl. Makes an expensive roll really expensive.
I'm using an 8400, with Prestige Baryta (so I get 13 usable metres, rater than ten).

[wickedweather]

If you're not printing large images, use a 24" roll - makes the handling easier. I find that longer gangs of images help with wrangling baryta papers.
When humidity is low, I'll let a couple of feet hang off the roll for a few minutes, before loading, to take the the curl out from the beginning of the roll, and once loaded, leave 4-8 inches of paper blank before print starts.
I tend to run sections mot more than 72" long, and tape them to a wall to dry for a day or two,

Unless I run an entire roll from beginning to end in one session, I find the last 4-6 feet unusable, because of the curl. Makes an expensive roll really expensive.
I'm using an 8400, with Prestige Baryta (so I get 13 usable metres, rater than ten).

Good advice, thanks.

Handling 44" rolls as they come out is difficult in and of itself. But that's why we purchase 44" + machines, right? To print big. I'm sure I'll figure out a system. I like the idea of hanging or laying flat somehow before I attempt to get the curl out. The  Hahnemuhle FA Baryta Satin is just a beast. The guy in the video mentioned how a lot of Hahnemuhle FA papers need special care when de rolling - so it makes sense. I have a 17" roll of Red River Polar Gloss Metallic. Easy peasy to get the curl out.

[Richard.Wills]

I reckon less than 50% of what I print is on 44" rolls, the rest on 36, 24 and 17" - depends on what needs printing onto what... It means we carry more inventory, but waste less material, and handling / trimming is way easier.

Looking forward to learning how to handle 60" rolls.

[William Walker]

It curls more the closer you get to the end...!

I would be very scared to de-curl after I have printed on it.

I simply lay the print down flat, cover it with tissue paper and put something heavy (and flat) on it overnight. That does not completely solve the problem, but it helps a lot.

[wickedweather]

It curls more the closer you get to the end...!

I would be very scared to de-curl after I have printed on it.

I simply lay the print down flat, cover it with tissue paper and put something heavy (and flat) on it overnight. That does not completely solve the problem, but it helps a lot.

So if I'm having issues at the beginning of the roll 

Just bought a 4" PVC pipe. Going to make a de roller like the one in the video above and give it a go on a couple sheets that I have had covered over night. Fingers crossed. I'm at my witts end here.

[Panagiotis]

I use a 111cm tube core (3") from a consumed roll on which I have attached a 111cm X 100cm piece of cheap canvas. I roll 2 times the canvas first and then I insert the edge of the print. I completely roll it and I leave it between 3-7 days (depending on the paper).

[wickedweather]

I think I'm headed in the right direction. I purchased a 4" PVC pipe used for water lines and had it cut to 48" wide. I made my sandwich layers with "Better Than Paper Bulletin Board Roll" that I got from the craft store and went from the first picture to the other picture in about 20 minutes. No creases, streaks, scrapes, or damage at all. It's still not entirely flat but this was only rolled one direction and at least now I can work with the paper. I have some Epson Legacy Baryta II 44" to test as well as a 44" roll of Red River Palo Duro Soft Rag that's arriving today. I'll be curious to see how their curl is compared to the Hahnemuhle FA Baryta Satin that was making me want to throw in the towel.

Thanks for all of the advice and assistance.

[Lessbones]

clearly not easily available to all, but i used to flatten roll media with a dye sub press-- it works incredibly well for fiber papers between two sheets of 4 ply mat board.  maybe 10 seconds or so and the curl is totally gone.  Either before or after printing.  Too long and you'll start to yellow the paper (this was at 350deg F iirc)

old school fiber print heat presses should be available-- the kind that you would use on silver gelatin paper should work as well.

Don't try it with alpha cellulose papers or anything else that isn't actually "paper", those'll melt.

[wickedweather]

A dye press would be nice, LOL.

I'm happy to report that Epson Legacy Baryta II is significantly easier to get the curl out. Also, I was pleasantly surprised at how nice the paper is in general. Going to try Red River Palo Duro Softgloss Rag on a 44" roll and Hahnemuhle FA Photo Rag Matt Smooth 308 on a 24" roll tomorrow. 

[Ryan Mack]

clearly not easily available to all, but i used to flatten roll media with a dye sub press-- it works incredibly well for fiber papers between two sheets of 4 ply mat board.  maybe 10 seconds or so and the curl is totally gone.  Either before or after printing.  Too long and you'll start to yellow the paper (this was at 350deg F iirc)

old school fiber print heat presses should be available-- the kind that you would use on silver gelatin paper should work as well.

Don't try it with alpha cellulose papers or anything else that isn't actually "paper", those'll melt.

I've found you really need to let the ink dry a day before putting it into a heat press. At least for the Hahnemuhle Baryta papers I use. If I don't then the dmax is dramatically reduced and my glossy photos look like they're printed on matte.

[Lessbones]

that may be, but also sounds like you're probably using too much time/heat/pressure...

[Ryan Mack]

that may be, but also sounds like you're probably using too much time/heat/pressure...

That's fair. I was doing this to dry press mount something and my adhesive has a longer dwell time than 10 seconds.

[mearussi]

Part of the problem is that it is on a base of alpha-cellulose which is stiffer and more prone to kinking than 100% cotton.

[wickedweather]

Part of the problem is that it is on a base of alpha-cellulose which is stiffer and more prone to kinking than 100% cotton.

I'm learning that as with pretty much all of this process, there is definitely an ART to de rolling. I'm also thinking that most of the time when handling 44" prints coming off of the roll, I'm going to need to enlist another pair of hands. It's just to easy to bump, scrape, and even crease even when transporting from the printer basket to the table.

I'm not sure of the Hahnemuhle FA Baryta Satin durability compared to others - but in my experience it really shows it's scuffs. Maybe that's typical of a Baryta Satin. I certainly feel like Moab Juniper Rag Baryta is more durable but then again, I've just used 13X19 in that case so who knows.

I had a great first experience with the Epson Legacy Baryta II. It definitely has a curl, but nowhere near the HM FA Baryta Satin. And the deep blacks coming off of that paper were magnificent.

[MichaelKoerner]

Hahnemuehle FA Baryta Satin is one of the most beautiful/delicate, but also most sensitive (in terms of creases and folds) I know...

[aaronleitz]

For what it's worth I really like Hahnemuehle Photo Rag Baryta. Not as smooth surface as Baryta Satin but very "durable."

If you have the room to do it - I built a table on wheels that I can roll right up to my Canon 4100 so the paper outputs right onto the table. This seems to help a bit with curl as well.

[wickedweather]

For what it's worth I really like Hahnemuehle Photo Rag Baryta. Not as smooth surface as Baryta Satin but very "durable."

If you have the room to do it - I built a table on wheels that I can roll right up to my Canon 4100 so the paper outputs right onto the table. This seems to help a bit with curl as well.

That's kind of genius, actually. If you have time and don't mind, snap a picture. I would love to see what I think I'm imagining.