Epson P20000 problems

[hazany]

Before I spend about $4K replacing the head for my P20000, I thought I should describe the problems and see if anyone else has experienced similar issues.  When the nozzle check shows clogged nozzles, I do normal, heavy, and sometimes power cleaning.  If this does not solve my problem, I manually clean the head.  When I do this manual cleaning, I have to do a few more normal and heavy cleanings and I see the nozzles that are clogged get reduced until there is only one.  So far so good.  Then I go after cleaning the final clogged nozzle and the nozzle check starts to show a new set of clogged nozzles that were not clogged.  It seems completely random.  Sometimes, the next morning, the clogged nozzles have gone away.  Sometimes, I ignore the nozzle report and just print.  This can work but it can also create bad prints.  Does any of this seem familiar?  I just had an Epson repair person come to fix my Epson 9900 which cost $3K.  She looked at the P20000.  She did a lot of cleaning and power cleaning but then at the end we still had one remaining clogged nozzle.  She wasn't sure what the issue was other than replacing the head will probably fix it.  Any advise would be greatly appreciated as we have a lot of printing to do soon.  Thank you.

[dgberg]

Did you inquire about Epsons one time repair for $1395. (For your 9900)
Not sure they still offer it.
One-Time Service Plan - EPWPSP1R44 | Printer Accessories

Epson
https://epson.com › Accessories › One-Time-Service-P...
This plan covers the Epson SureColor P-Series 44-inch or Epson Stylus Pro 9900 Printer for onetime, on-site repair services for a diagnosed primary issue.
$1,395.00 · ‎Free delivery · ‎30-day returns
Missing: 1395 ‎| Must include: 1395

[tastar]

Could you post a picture of a nozzle check from the printer (the fewer bad nozzles, the better)? It will show whether the print head is bad - if it's not, it might be as simple as replacing a capping station.

Thank you.

[deanwork]

If you don’t have a head that shows signs of delamination ( easy on the power cleans unless you want to blow the head for sure ) it is most likely time to change the “ ink selector unit” which contains the dampers, ink filters.
At least half the time D1 replaces heads they don’t need replacing. Common occurrence unfortunately.

One other thing, if your capping station where the head rests looks dried out ( from lack of use primarily) and not fitting the head snugly that needs replacing also. It is rare for the pump to conk out on these machines, they last a long time. I’ve never replaced one in 20 years. I keep my cap assembly clean and never let it dry out so I never replace the cap/ pump assembly either. Cleaning the cap assembly after every significant job is what I do and now I never have missing nozzles.

I’ll tell you one thing for sure, Epson is always looking for an excuse to replace a head at the drop of a hat. Been through that many times.

Fact is if you replace the head you should replace the ink selector unit at the same time anyway so it’s smart to start with the assembly that costs a fraction of the cost.

As we have said a million times, Epson won’t tell you this and that’s really sad.

John

Before I spend about $4K replacing the head for my P20000, I thought I should describe the problems and see if anyone else has experienced similar issues.  When the nozzle check shows clogged nozzles, I do normal, heavy, and sometimes power cleaning.  If this does not solve my problem, I manually clean the head.  When I do this manual cleaning, I have to do a few more normal and heavy cleanings and I see the nozzles that are clogged get reduced until there is only one.  So far so good.  Then I go after cleaning the final clogged nozzle and the nozzle check starts to show a new set of clogged nozzles that were not clogged.  It seems completely random.  Sometimes, the next morning, the clogged nozzles have gone away.  Sometimes, I ignore the nozzle report and just print.  This can work but it can also create bad prints.  Does any of this seem familiar?  I just had an Epson repair person come to fix my Epson 9900 which cost $3K.  She looked at the P20000.  She did a lot of cleaning and power cleaning but then at the end we still had one remaining clogged nozzle.  She wasn't sure what the issue was other than replacing the head will probably fix it.  Any advise would be greatly appreciated as we have a lot of printing to do soon.  Thank you.

[hazany]

Thank you so much for responding.  As far as the 9900, I had used the one time Epson offer in 2021.  Now, 2 years later, the head and pumping station had to be replaced again.  I was told the Epson offer was no longer in effect.  The 9900 is fixed and is printing fine but everything comes out dark!

My main issue is what to do with the P20000.  I have attached a picture of the nozzle check.  One side shows more clogs.  The other side is after I did a bunch of cleaning cycles. 
Thank you.

[deanwork]

Doesn’t look delaminated to me after the cleaning. Are those problem ink carts low?

[hazany]

The inks are not low.  One thing I don't understand is if there are several feet of tubes full of ink between the cartridges and the head, why would a cartridge with low ink be a problem?  The Epson technician mentioned "pressure" has to build up.

I also don't know why the nozzles get clogged in the first place while printing is in progress and while the printer is being used on a daily basis.  I remember my first printer (Epson 9800) have clogging problems.

I forgot to mention that another issue I have with the P20000, is that the absorption pads get overly wet with ink.  I sometimes get a line of blue ink on the backs on the prints.  I know this is supposed to happen with borderless printing.  I have this problem without borderless printing.  The technician said there may be a "compromised" seal that needs to be replaced.  However, she wasn't sure about it.  Opening the printer and checking would take many hours.
Thank you.  It's great to have your guidance and advice.

[deanwork]

If the dampers are clogged up it is difficult to ink to the head.  When you do power cleans it can push spurts of ink into the lines but can also bring along dried crud and clog them up again shortly. Doing a bunch of cleanings can actually warp the nozzles and wreck the head. Doing more cleaning cycles won’t solve your problem if the clogs are not in the head unit.

I don’t have one of these or the 10k which is the same tech.

I would join this group and ask these questions there. I know there are people who have knowledge of this printer on there and can possibly guide you.

https://groups.io/g/EpsonWideFormat



quote author=hazany link=topic=142429.msg1252478#msg1252478 date=1683066048]
The inks are not low.  One thing I don't understand is if there are several feet of tubes full of ink between the cartridges and the head, why would a cartridge with low ink be a problem?  The Epson technician mentioned "pressure" has to build up.

I also don't know why the nozzles get clogged in the first place while printing is in progress and while the printer is being used on a daily basis.  I remember my first printer (Epson 9800) have clogging problems.

I forgot to mention that another issue I have with the P20000, is that the absorption pads get overly wet with ink.  I sometimes get a line of blue ink on the backs on the prints.  I know this is supposed to happen with borderless printing.  I have this problem without borderless printing.  The technician said there may be a "compromised" seal that needs to be replaced.  However, she wasn't sure about it.  Opening the printer and checking would take many hours.
Thank you.  It's great to have your guidance and advice.
[/quote]

[MfAlab]

Agree with deanwork, maybe you will want to check the dampers. I also saw some bad nozzle fires in PK/GY/DGY. Ink drops are not continued in a line.

[hazany]

Thank you for your help.  I will check out the other group.  Can I access the dampers in the P20000 myself?  The Epson repair person ( a private company) said that she hardly ever replaces dampers.  It looks like replacing the head and the pumping station is the common activity. 
Also, I saw the pumping station being replaced in the 9900.  It seemed fairly straight forward.  Can I possibly replace the pumping station in the P20000 myself?
Thank you.

[deanwork]

They never replace dampers? That tells you a hell of a lot and is exactly what I was saying. People will probably accuse me of Epson bashing again, but they do not want you replacing dampers. They want you replacing heads.

All the people I know who have been at this a long time doing production work and have maintained these printers themselves,  automatically replace the dampers every few years, and thus replace heads far less frequently. I learned this the hard way. Epson makes money three ways, ink and media sales, printer sales including the warranties, and maintenance. Most of the maintenance ends up replacing heads. The new Epsons heads are so expensive you have to keep them in warranty. Is this an honest corporate strategy? Different people have different opinions I assume.

My opinion, …..what they like us to do is let the dampers get clogged and do massive power cleans , then hire them to replace heads. ( Yea, sorry  I’m bashing again. ) Only two ways around that, replace the ink selector unit every few years or stay in warranty or both.  Head replacement is the primary reason by far that we buy these extended warranties.

Whether you can work on them yourself and order parts from Compas Micro depends on how good you are doing this kind of thing. It’s not easy, they don’t want it to be easy. For instance, I have my drum scanner torn apart right now and I’m working on it and replacing components. But for me I would be afraid to even attempt to work on my Epson. I’m just not very good at these things, and most people aren’t, some are.

They have made it much more difficult to replace the dampers and heads yourself like we used to do all the time. With the earlier Epsons it was super easy to pop out any of the dampers of a problem channel, buy them for a few dollars and pop the new one in easily. That way we kept using our heads for many years and did far fewer cleanings. Then they came up with this “ink selector”  unit bullshit that most people can’t do at all. Epson is not being run by engineers, it’s sales people.  No secret there. Their engineers are great when given the time, which is true of all the big three.

As for the black and gray inks, these are mainly carbon and the carts need to be shaken lightly occasionally to keep the pigments suspended in the base. That is if you are are not using them up quickly. I shake all my carts every couple of weeks on all brands of printers. It definitely helps. Epsons do the worst job of keeping the pigments in suspension, Canon with their strong agitation mechanism the best. Hp similar to Canon.

John

Thank you for your help.  I will check out the other group.  Can I access the dampers in the P20000 myself?  The Epson repair person ( a private company) said that she hardly ever replaces dampers.  It looks like replacing the head and the pumping station is the common activity. 
Also, I saw the pumping station being replaced in the 9900.  It seemed fairly straight forward.  Can I possibly replace the pumping station in the P20000 myself?
Thank you.

[NeilPrintArt]

I would also guess that the problem is not the head but more likely the 'ink selector' (damper unit) or possibly something with the wiper blade or capping station?
Have you tried cleaning the wiper blade?

Yes you can access the ink selector by following the service manual, but its unlikely that you will be able to see anything obvious, its not really a serviceable part, its a self-contained unit which generally just replaced 

[NeilPrintArt]

And you should probably update your firmware
Your nozzle check shows what I think is an old version
Probably won't make any difference to the clogged nozzles but just good practice
Yes you can replace the ink selector/damper unit. Not necessarily for the faint of heart, it involves a lot of steps including disconnecting and reconnecting the ink lines which can get messy.
You would need the Service Manual, plus the Field Repair Guide, plus the Adjustment software ideally

[narikin]

Late to all this, but own a P20000 that had a head clogging issue last year:

1/ Yes, do a manual clean, the one that puts the head over to the left side of the printer (as you look at it, away from capping station) and do a manual clean underneath, with the wiping  swab-sticks dipped in head cleaning solution. There is an online plan somewhere with which head area = which color. DM me if you can't find it - I have it here.

2/ My issue turned out to be a bad ink cart that was not pressurizing properly - it cost me many hours and tons of other inks, before I pulled the cart, looked closely, and found the tell tale stain around the end of it. Epson tech support immediately recognised it for what it was, once I sent photos and a purchase receipt - no arguments, and replaced it plus a good number of extras, gratis. Didn't really make up for all the days/ ink, paper lost before I figured it out, but... immediate resolution of the issue.

3/ If you truly need a new head. Don't spend $4000+ on one from Compass or whomever. Buy a complete P10000 - they are (were?) only $5000 after rebates, use the exact same head, parts, etc, so have your tech take that off there, plus you'll have all those free extra parts - capping stations, wipers units, etc, etc, thrown in. Its wasteful, un-environmental, and ridiculous - but that's the Epson model. Sometimes its cheaper to buy a new razor, than a pack of razor blades.

4/ Use an indie tech - there's plenty around. Not sure where you are, but I have East Coast names if useful.

Good luck!

[narikin]

Oh wow - just looked it up, and they don't make the P10000 anymore - does one of the replacements have the same head, etc?

[deanwork]

Yea, the very first things you should do, and do frequently, is clean the cap assembly ( with the printer unplugged ) with a dampened cloth moistened with distilled water , clean the bottom of the head unit with a dampened lint free cotton cloth, and clean the wiper blade.

John




quote author=NeilPrintArt link=topic=142429.msg1252486#msg1252486 date=1683126796]
I would also guess that the problem is not the head but more likely the 'ink selector' (damper unit) or possibly something with the wiper blade or capping station?
Have you tried cleaning the wiper blade?

Yes you can access the ink selector by following the service manual, but its unlikely that you will be able to see anything obvious, its not really a serviceable part, its a self-contained unit which generally just replaced
[/quote]

[hazany]

A few months back during the cold winter here in Philly, the clogging problems started.  The room the printer is in was often very cold.  Prior to this, I had never had a problem getting rid of the clogged nozzles by just running normal cleaning.  At that time, I read (maybe on this forum), how to clean the head using a small mirror and a swab dipped in head cleaning liquid.  Every time, I do this, I follow it by cleaning the wiper blade and the capping station.  This procedure, usually works.  Right afterward, I have to run normal and heavy cleaning until the clogs are gone.  The recent issue is that after the manual cleaning, one nozzle still shows clogged and when I clean it, another nozzle that wasn't clogged shows clogged.  It's crazy.  Sometimes I ignore the nozzle report and print without problems.  It almost seems like there is a confused sensor.  Other times, the clogged nozzle does mess up my print.  So much waste of time, ink, and paper.
I really appreciate all the advice.

[deanwork]

Both cold and hot weather conditions can create nozzle issues. Not because of the temperature which rarely ever a factor even in super cold conditions, but rather from the drying out of the head and cap station from both heating systems and air conditioning.

What I do, all the time is place a plastic cup filled with water right beside the print head when not in use. I tape a sign over the printer controls that says Remove Water Cup so I don’t forget and turn it on with that inside the carriage area. In addition to that I put a cloth cover, which is a painters drop cloth , over all my printers when not in use. This also helps keep dust out of the electronics. These things have really helped me a lot all year long.

John




quote author=hazany link=topic=142429.msg1252493#msg1252493 date=1683135403]
A few months back during the cold winter here in Philly, the clogging problems started.  The room the printer is in was often very cold.  Prior to this, I had never had a problem getting rid of the clogged nozzles by just running normal cleaning.  At that time, I read (maybe on this forum), how to clean the head using a small mirror and a swab dipped in head cleaning liquid.  Every time, I do this, I follow it by cleaning the wiper blade and the capping station.  This procedure, usually works.  Right afterward, I have to run normal and heavy cleaning until the clogs are gone.  The recent issue is that after the manual cleaning, one nozzle still shows clogged and when I clean it, another nozzle that wasn't clogged shows clogged.  It's crazy.  Sometimes I ignore the nozzle report and print without problems.  It almost seems like there is a confused sensor.  Other times, the clogged nozzle does mess up my print.  So much waste of time, ink, and paper.
I really appreciate all the advice.
[/quote]

[Lessbones]

It is relatively likely that replacing the capping station could fix this issue--  when a seal over any of the sets of nozzles is compromised the portion of cleaning that sucks ink through the head to prime it will instead suck in air and cause random nozzle dropouts-- the air bubbles will go back up into the head when the pressure is released.  I've replaced both the head and the capping station on a p20000, it's not terribly difficult.

[hazany]

Narikin,
I would love to know this.  It will really help me clean the right nozzle.
"There is an online plan somewhere with which head area = which color. DM me if you can't find it - I have it here."
Thank you.