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Simon J.A. Simpson

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Unable to Profile MacBook Pro M1 Display
« on: January 18, 2023, 04:05:31 pm »

I don't know whether anyone else has discovered this but I've found that I cannot profile my new 14 inch M1 MacBook Pro.

Well, that's not quite accurate.  I can profile it but Monterey with an 'XRD' display will not allow the loading of profiles.  My Intel iMac with Monterey will allow display profiles to be loaded.

Instead, in the 'Displays' panel in 'System Preferences' you can only load a set of predefined 'Presets'.  For example: 'Photography (P3-D65)'.  There are 11 to choose from.

What do other folk think ?  Andrew Rodney ?  Jeff Schewe ? 

Is this the end of profiling Apple displays ?  Does it matter ?
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digitaldog

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Re: Unable to Profile MacBook Pro M1 Display
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2023, 04:35:47 pm »

I’ve got an M1 16” MacBook Pro but don’t calibrate or profile it as it runs a SpectraView that does undergo this process. I’d check with X-rite if you’re using their software for this and ask what’s up. A custom profile for the SpectraView is available and seen; I can tell you that much.
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routlaw

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Re: Unable to Profile MacBook Pro M1 Display
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2023, 06:05:58 pm »

Art is Right walks viewers through on his YouTube website on how to profile the new displays, well more accurately the newer Apple Studio Display but I see no reason why his method would not work with one of the M1 laptops. Could be you're just overlooking some settings along the path. I should add he is using i1 Profiler, not any of the other display profiling software.
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routlaw

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Re: Unable to Profile MacBook Pro M1 Display
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2023, 06:09:31 pm »

I’ve got an M1 16” MacBook Pro but don’t calibrate or profile it as it runs a SpectraView that does undergo this process. I’d check with X-rite if you’re using their software for this and ask what’s up. A custom profile for the SpectraView is available and seen; I can tell you that much.

Interesting it was my understanding all these years the NEC Spectraview profiling software would only work on their branded monitors. Did I miss something along the way? Thanks
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digitaldog

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Re: Unable to Profile MacBook Pro M1 Display
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2023, 06:59:51 pm »

Interesting it was my understanding all these years the NEC Spectraview profiling software would only work on their branded monitors. Did I miss something along the way? Thanks
I’m using SpectraView on a SpectraView.
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Simon J.A. Simpson

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Re: Unable to Profile MacBook Pro M1 Display
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2023, 11:42:35 am »

Thank you everyone for your comments.

This is not really a ‘I can’t get profiling to work’ issue but rather an ‘Apple won’t let you profile’ issue. 

Quoting from Apple’s website:
“Change your Mac display’s colour profile
In Displays settings, you can switch between different colour profiles. Your Mac selects the recommended profile for your display by default, so it isn’t usually necessary to adjust this setting.
Note: Certain Mac models use built-in reference modes rather than colour profiles. If you have a Pro Display XDR, an Apple Studio Display, a 14-inch MacBook Pro (2021) or a 16-inch MacBook Pro (2021), see Change Displays settings.”


I have found that Apple's profiling and calibration of its displays quite good although on balance I would prefer to make my own profile.  But, on newer displays Apple have removed this option giving you instead a series of what they call ‘presets’.  You can use their controls to make your own preset but the emphasis is on viewing conditions rather than measuring the display to make a profile in order to colour manage it.

So really my question is more to do with whether not being able to profile Apple displays is an issue; or not ?

I'm agnostic, but I would like to know what others think.
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Simon J.A. Simpson

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Re: Unable to Profile MacBook Pro M1 Display
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2023, 12:14:03 pm »

Art is Right walks viewers through on his YouTube website on how to profile the new displays, well more accurately the newer Apple Studio Display but I see no reason why his method would not work with one of the M1 laptops. Could be you're just overlooking some settings along the path. I should add he is using i1 Profiler, not any of the other display profiling software.

Good video, but unfortunately 2 years out of date.  So before Monterey and Ventura.  Art doesn't show how to get around the Apple imposition of presets.  So?
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routlaw

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Re: Unable to Profile MacBook Pro M1 Display
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2023, 12:31:12 pm »

Good video, but unfortunately 2 years out of date.  So before Monterey and Ventura.  Art doesn't show how to get around the Apple imposition of presets.  So?

How can it be two years out of date, the Apple Studio Display has only been released within the last year, March of 2022 to be exact. AIR might have been using an older OS but this shouldn't matter one iota. Effectively he makes some custom adjustments to a present then starts the display profile into action. He does show you how to work with not around the presets. Yes this is a different method than what you have been used to the in past but it should work. Hope this helps.
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Simon J.A. Simpson

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Re: Unable to Profile MacBook Pro M1 Display
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2023, 12:51:42 pm »

How can it be two years out of date, the Apple Studio Display has only been released within the last year, March of 2022 to be exact. AIR might have been using an older OS but this shouldn't matter one iota. Effectively he makes some custom adjustments to a present then starts the display profile into action. He does show you how to work with not around the presets. Yes this is a different method than what you have been used to the in past but it should work. Hope this helps.

Sorry, but it is out of date.  By way of example, on my MacBook Pro there is no Energy Saver in the Control Panel.  He makes no mention of presets.

It may be down to the OS; i.e. Monterey and possibly Ventura so when Art was doing the profiling it may have worked fine.  No longer, I'm afraid.

But maybe I was looking at an old video ?
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Simon J.A. Simpson

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Re: Unable to Profile MacBook Pro M1 Display
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2023, 01:24:20 pm »

I had a rummage around ArtIsRight and managed to find the video Routlaw was referring to.  It is one year old so is at least up to Monterey.

It covers how to get around the presets business.  Instead of selecting the display profile in the Displays you now use the ColorSync Utility and select the profile you want in the 'Displays' option there.  Does this really set the display profile to the one you've selected or does ColorSync just enable you to view the profile, not change it ?

For anyone else who might need to see how this is done here is the URL:
ArtIsRight – profiling Apple XRD Displays in Monterey

I have verified that this works.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2023, 01:43:06 pm by Simon J.A. Simpson »
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routlaw

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Re: Unable to Profile MacBook Pro M1 Display
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2023, 03:59:25 pm »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_EIy60UBTU&t=5s

This is the video I was referring to and he goes through presets extensively and how to set them up before creating a profile.
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Simon J.A. Simpson

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Re: Unable to Profile MacBook Pro M1 Display
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2023, 04:49:51 pm »

He did the same in the video I posted the link to, but with MacBooks.  Very good clear videos, well presented.

Thanks for the tip.

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Czornyj

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Re: Unable to Profile MacBook Pro M1 Display
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2023, 02:54:17 am »

Retina XDR and Apple Studio Display are both more accurate than i1Display Pro, unless you switch original PFS (PanasonicVX17P051J00.edr) .edr to that one:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1u52zxk91v327b4/PFS_Phosphor_Family_31Jan17.edr?dl=0

Then it becomes accurate enough to realize, that Retina XDR/ASD are both perfectly calibrated and profiled. With a small exception that standard preset is calibrated to D65 deg 10 CMF (CIE1964) so it's visually less pinkish than standard D65 deg 2 (CIE1931), but of course you can switch to standard D65 or any other wtpt anytime you like by creating custom preset.

digitaldog

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Re: Unable to Profile MacBook Pro M1 Display
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2023, 01:41:38 pm »

Retina XDR and Apple Studio Display are both more accurate than i1Display Pro, unless you switch original PFS (PanasonicVX17P051J00.edr) .edr to that one:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1u52zxk91v327b4/PFS_Phosphor_Family_31Jan17.edr?dl=0

Then it becomes accurate enough to realize, that Retina XDR/ASD are both perfectly calibrated and profiled. With a small exception that standard preset is calibrated to D65 deg 10 CMF (CIE1964) so it's visually less pinkish than standard D65 deg 2 (CIE1931), but of course you can switch to standard D65 or any other wtpt anytime you like by creating custom preset.
Considering the (current) options for SpectraView, and the newer HDR displays (I now have one on my MacBook 16"), I'm wondering where to go in the near(er) future with a 27"-30" display. The new HDR options in Camera Raw are pretty interesting, this video shows what's available:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW7hee5j49w
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Czornyj

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Re: Unable to Profile MacBook Pro M1 Display
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2023, 03:00:20 pm »

Considering the (current) options for SpectraView, and the newer HDR displays (I now have one on my MacBook 16"), I'm wondering where to go in the near(er) future with a 27"-30" display. The new HDR options in Camera Raw are pretty interesting, this video shows what's available:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW7hee5j49w

I absolutely love using HDR in photography - started to experiment with EDR in Photoshop, Affinity and Pixelmator, and now ACR gives event better, more convenient control. I hope this jaw dropping technology will get popular soon.

Problem is that Macbook Retina XDR is better than anything in this respect - there's virtually no such a good HDR desktop display at reasonable price :(

digitaldog

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Re: Unable to Profile MacBook Pro M1 Display
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2023, 03:04:37 pm »

Well, at least I have the 16” MBP for the time being. Thanks.
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Dave Ellis

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Re: Unable to Profile MacBook Pro M1 Display
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2023, 12:15:55 am »

I had a rummage around ArtIsRight and managed to find the video Routlaw was referring to.  It is one year old so is at least up to Monterey.

It covers how to get around the presets business.  Instead of selecting the display profile in the Displays you now use the ColorSync Utility and select the profile you want in the 'Displays' option there.  Does this really set the display profile to the one you've selected or does ColorSync just enable you to view the profile, not change it ?

For anyone else who might need to see how this is done here is the URL:
ArtIsRight – profiling Apple XRD Displays in Monterey

I have verified that this works.

I've found on my Macbook Pro that when you change a preset in the Display settings, the default factory icc profile (accessed through ColorSync) changes as well. If you look carefully at the details of the profile, you'll find that if the selected preset has a color space of P3, then the icc profile is actually a standard icc Display P3 color space profile. Similarly for sRGB. So this profile  is just an interface for the CMS. The calibration occurs in the emulation of the P3 or sRGB display characteristic.

Dave
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