PsPrinting - Massive loss of colour GAMUT

[vartkes]

I print in a fully end-to-end color managed environment printing on Epson SC800 printer with ICC Profiles.

Updated to latest Ps version. I am finding massive loss of color gamut when soft proofing and actual printing. Prints made beautifully 10 years ago and 2 month ago now are coming out MUD. I can see the massive loss of gamut in the Print dialogue. This makes me suspect that something is wrong inside Photoshop; the event happens before the printing. Also I have tried using different paper profiles from Epson and Red River with different papers I use, all the same results. These ICC profiles have worked fine before.
I made a small document showing two examples of the issue. The image of sunflowers printed fine a few weeks ago. The other printed fine 10 years ago.
As for my system latest versions of Windows 11, 64bit, Ps at 23.5, NVIDIA RTX 3060 are installed.

Any advice or-next steps is appreciated
Vartkes
PS - I posted a Bug Report at Adobe Community and I am hoping an Adobe engineer will pick this up.

[RaffiCoffee]

Did you check your monitor profiles as well, see if it is not a wrong selected profile? Also making sure to turn off software color control.

[vartkes]

Did you check your monitor profiles as well, see if it is not a wrong selected profile? Also making sure to turn off software color control.

Thank you RaffiCoffee for the reminders. Windows|Control Panel|Color Management shows that the monitor profile I built 8 days ago is the 'Default" for this monitor. I am not understanding what you refer to by 'software color control'. I set the printer driver to "Off color management" and select "Ps Manages Colors" in the Ps Print pop-up. Would you please clarify? Thanks, Vartkes

[RaffiCoffee]

Nevermind what I said about "the software management"(I see more clear now that this is not even at the print stage, and on the screen so far).

Guessing that file is not in CMYK or other.....
-Check conversion options
-Check that the old version has not changed from the new version parameters
-Also might check your monitors Gamut or your Windows Color management/Display Profiles

Hmm, If doesn't get solved here, I would also suggest posting in another category. It might have more "eyes" on it, and can be spotted.

[mcbroomf]

To verify it's PS you can download older versions when in the Creative Cloud download app.

Do you have any other way of printing?  Lightroom?  Qimage?

[digitaldog]

I print in a fully end-to-end color managed environment printing on Epson SC800 printer with ICC Profiles.

Updated to latest Ps version. I am finding massive loss of color gamut when soft proofing and actual printing.
Vartkes

Printing is one area to look at, OOG overlay is pointless and buggy, don't go there.

As I answered you the other day on the Adobe forums in terms of PRINTING:
You should always test output using good color reference images designed for that task. The color reference images RGB values are such that they are set for output and are editing and display agnostic. Test the output this way and examine for the same color issues so we know it's not your image-specific issues causing the problems:
http://www.digitaldog.net/files/2014PrinterTestFileFlat.tif.zip
Now, how is the output with that color reference image, with proper color management setup in Photoshop and the print driver???

[vartkes]

Printing is one area to look at, OOG overlay is pointless and buggy, don't go there.

As I answered you the other day on the Adobe forums in terms of PRINTING:
You should always test output using good color reference images designed for that task. The color reference images RGB values are such that they are set for output and are editing and display agnostic. Test the output this way and examine for the same color issues so we know it's not your image-specific issues causing the problems:
http://www.digitaldog.net/files/2014PrinterTestFileFlat.tif.zip
Now, how is the output with that color reference image, with proper color management setup in Photoshop and the print driver???

------------
I printed the reference image last night on two papers. I used the manufacturers' ICC Profiles supplied, which I have used many times in the past. Looking at it in daylight I see some defects. I have used these papers many times in the past with no issues.
The defects described apply exactly to prints produced from Ps and Lr.

Paper 1: Red River San Gabriel Baryta 2.0
At the top at the grayscale strip, the darkest two have gotten lighter & pale blue. section #18 is darker than 19&20. #20 should be as high a Dmax as the paper can produce and it is lighter than #19.
I see the darkest parts of the darker hair of the two portraits to the left are 'muddy'; not as dark as they should be. They are a lighter tone of black with a tinge of blue.
The dark patches on the shoulder and hind leg of The Digital Dog Logo are distinctly low saturation blue.
The black and darker patch next to it on the Color Checker portion of the image are good. The black is black indeed.

Paper 2: Epson Exhibition Fibre
The four, what should be the darkest patches at  the greyscale strips are lighter than the preceding patches! what should be black is the lightest grey of the four. the other three get darker as I move into the strip. All four are lighter than the 5th strip etc from the darkest end.
The dark hair of the left two portraits are mostly muddy and distinctly lighter grey. Only the lighter parts of the hair on both are the tones they should be.
The shoulder and the hind dark patches in fact are lighter blobs.
No blue tinge in any of the defective areas

I am using NEC PA241A monitor and Epson SC800 printer. The monitor is calibrated with i1Pro2 and NEC Spectraview firmware (most recent version) to 5150K, 80 cd/sqm and 250 contrast ratio, Gamma 2.2. The System is Windows 11 64 bit. The Windows appears to use the NEC-generated monitor profile as it is the default profile in the Color Management tab. The reference image was printed on both papers without softproofing (no color or tone edits), printed by Photoshop with Ps managing colors. The printer is set at no color management.
Thank you for your help
Vartkes
Thank you for your help
Vartkes

[vartkes]

To verify it's PS you can download older versions when in the Creative Cloud download app.

Do you have any other way of printing?  Lightroom?  Qimage?

Yes I went back to Ps v22. Same results. I have made many prints in Ps 22 and 23 with no trouble.
Printing from Lr is yielding the same result.
Thanks
Vartkes

[vartkes]

Nevermind what I said about "the software management"(I see more clear now that this is not even at the print stage, and on the screen so far).

Guessing that file is not in CMYK or other.....
-Check conversion options
-Check that the old version has not changed from the new version parameters
-Also might check your monitors Gamut or your Windows Color management/Display Profiles

Hmm, If doesn't get solved here, I would also suggest posting in another category. It might have more "eyes" on it, and can be spotted.

The files I am printing are ProPhotoRGB, which is what I have used for ions...
Windows| Color Management | Profiles has the profile I made 8 days ago as default.
The monitor is calibrated at 5150K, 80 CD/Sq.m, contrast ration of 250 at Gamma 2.2 using Xrite i1Pro2 spectro. and NEC Spectraview s/w on NEC PA241 monitor
The reference image from Digital Dog was printed on two different papers with various defects. See my response to Andrew Rodney below.
Thanks
Vartkes

[digitaldog]

------------
I printed the reference image last night on two papers. I used the manufacturers' ICC Profiles supplied, which I have used many times in the past. Looking at it in daylight I see some defects.

What you reported was "finding massive loss of color gamut when soft proofing and actual printing."
Is that still the case?
The display and what you see at this point are moot.

[vartkes]

What you reported was "finding massive loss of color gamut when soft proofing and actual printing."
Is that still the case?
The display and what you see at this point are moot.

I APOLOGIZE FOR MY TARDINESS!
I think I discovered what the issue is. I switched from printing from MK ink to Pk ink two days ago. I have been printing with Pk ink having the 'troubles'. I just discovered that PK nozzles need a big-clean. This explains the weird color effects in the shadows. not enough Pk is flowing. I am executing a deep cleanse. If this doesn't resolve the issue I will be back. Thank you for your attempts to help me. I know that the nozzle test pattern print doesn't exercise the inactive Black even though it prints as if the nozzles are OK> I have been caught with this several years ago. I just remembered it.
I apologize again...
Closing the discussion....
I confirm that nozzle-clean fixed the issue. The reference image and my image print exactly as intended. The lesson learnt for me is whenever I switch Blacks after using one or the other for several months perform a fresh nozzle check. Previous nozzle checks don't apply to the newly-online Black. Of course this doesnot apply to the newer Epsons such as the SC 900.
Vartkes

[RaffiCoffee]

Well, at least you found the issue....

The Canon Pro-1000 should be going on sale soon . jk ;-)

It might not hurt to post a note in red ink on the printer... "When in doubt, check MK vs PK" 

Make a tasty cup of "Armenian" (Yemen Arabic) coffee for yourself and release a big breath of relaxation as the printer is printing. One of my favorite moments when I get things right...lol