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Author Topic: Mac Studio  (Read 4603 times)

vjbelle

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Mac Studio
« on: March 09, 2022, 01:01:24 pm »

I contacted Apple to see if Mac Studio was user upgradeable and was told that it wasn't - including the SSD.  It is unlikely I would need more memory than 64GB and the 1TB SSD is more than necessary to run the operating system with lots of room to spare.  With four TB ports expansion should be easy and very fast. 

Any thoughts from those knowledgeable? 

Victor B.
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MDL_SD

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Re: Mac Studio
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2022, 01:24:47 pm »

64GB memory and 1TB SSD are probably fine for most still photo use (although I put a 2TB SSD into my 14" M1 Max MacBook Pro). The big question with the Mac Studio is if you want/need to buy the second set of graphics cores, which I believe cost $1000? We need to see some real world reviews and data to know how much value those graphics cores provide for still photo work.
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digitaldog

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Peter McLennan

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Re: Mac Studio
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2022, 02:39:51 pm »

I'm certainly not knowledgeable.  As a twenty year Windows user, this will be my first Mac.
 
I went with 1TB internal storage and 64GB of RAM.  It's important to note that you can never upgrade these specs.

My Apple friends advised me that the "internal storage" spec is not really relevant.  External SSDs and Thunderbolt are very very fast.  The internal storage is mainly for the OS and programs.

I edit 4K video, DAW and dabble in CGI.  Photoshop and Lightroom are a largely irrelevant workload for this powerhouse, IMHO.

Delivery is within two weeks, so says Apple.  It'll be here by my birthday.  I'll report back.

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Chris Kern

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Re: Mac Studio
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2022, 09:11:07 pm »

It is unlikely I would need more memory than 64GB and the 1TB SSD is more than necessary to run the operating system with lots of room to spare.  With four TB ports expansion should be easy and very fast. . . . Any thoughts from those knowledgeable?

"All generalizations are false, including this one."

Having said that, UNIX systems typically exploit all their available main memory—"RAM"—quite efficiently, and the more you have, the better.  (MacOS is a variant of UNIX.)  Especially on a highly-parallelized machine with many cores, the amount of hardware memory that is available will influence how rapidly simultaneously coactive processes will complete.  So, as a general rule (but see above), I am inclined to max out the RAM on any new UNIX machine I purchase.

Not only that, but the new Apple hardware architecture shares main memory among three subsystems: the primary computing cores, the graphics accelerator cores, and something Apple calls the "neural engine."  Apple doesn't precisely explain that third compute subsystem as far as I have been able to determine, but it seems to be some sort of specialized processor for matrix operations.  However the fact that the primary memory is shared among the three functions would reinforce my view that it is worth paying for as much as the particular platform will support, especially because field upgrades reportedly are not feasible on the new Mac Studio products.

Secondary storage, such as solid-state drives, rarely are as performance-sensitive.  As long as you have enough primary storage to cache the files that are constantly in use, everything else—for example, raw captures from still or video cameras—probably can comfortably be consigned to an external storage medium without any significant performance degradation.  A channel-attached drive or network-attached server should work well—at least, as long as the latter is available through a 100 megabit or faster network connection.

vjbelle

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Re: Mac Studio
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2022, 02:07:52 am »

Really appreciate the replies. 

Peter.... I really think that you have hit the sweet spot and that would more than likely be the configuration I would get.  You didn't mention which processor you ordered.  I actually don't know if I would need a double M1 Max.  Large PS files from my 100s or 4150 are the only real work that computer would see.  Just received my 14" M1 Pro (not Max) computer and am amazed at the speed.  Numerous YouTube videos convinced me that I wouldn't need a Max for my needs and I really wanted long battery life. 

My thinking is that an M1 Max 32 core GPU may be the sweet spot for me.  As MDL_SD posted some real world testing is needed to see what is really needed.  I don't know if the Neural is going to be worth the money for my needs. 

Chris..... always appreciate your valuable input. 

Andrew..... as always thanks for the links and your input. 

Victor B.

Edit:  B&H will have these with delivery time the same as Apple.  I mention this because the sales tax can be saved using their branded credit card. 
« Last Edit: March 10, 2022, 02:26:42 am by vjbelle »
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Manoli

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Re: Mac Studio
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2022, 05:30:01 am »

ArsTechnica published an Apple roadmap, with the introduction of the new chips last November.
So far it seems to be spot on.
I've excerpted it below

Quote
  • Apple has already finalized the second generation of Mac processors, and the third generation is expected to be made with a new 3-nanometer process, according to a report in The Information citing people with direct knowledge of the plans.
  • The second-generation chips will use an "upgraded version" of the 5-nanometer process used for the M1, M1 Pro, and M1 Max found in recent Apple Silicon Macs. But unlike those first-generation chips ...
  • ...some of the second-generation chips will have two dies instead of one, allowing for more processor cores. The next Mac Pro's processor would be part of the generation that began with the M1. Code-named Jade, it will be based on the high-end MacBook Pro's M1 Max, but it will have two dies instead of one.
  • On the other hand, the MacBook Pro will feature more powerful second-generation chips code-named Rhodes. The second-generation chips have already been finalized and are ready to enter trial production, according to The Information's sources.
  • The more powerful third-generation processors are code-named Ibiza, Lobos, and Palma. Lobos and Palma are destined for the MacBook Pro and "Mac desktops."
  • A lower-performance variant code-named Ibiza would head to iPads and the MacBook Air.
  • Apple's roadmap projects steady performance improvements over time across all three generations, which are all in active development.  But the third generation is said to be a particularly momentous leap.


My personal view is that the base Mac Studio, even w/ 32mb unified memory, is going to be a more than sufficient powerhouse (exlcuding high-end video and audio worklflows) pending the arrival of the 3rd gen chips sometime in 2024.

Listen to diglloyd and you'll get an opposing view
Quote
For me, the only choice here is the 20-core CPU M1 Ultra because:

  • 20 CPU cores is a huge deal for things like focus stacking, data validation, etc.
  • 128GB memory available only with M1 Ultra 20-core CPU (128GB is the bare minimum for my work).
  • Double the memory bandwidth with M1 Ultra.
  • 48 core GPU instead of 24/32 core.
  • 6 Thunderbolt 4 ports instead of only 4 + 2 USB-C. Three Thunderbolt busses matters for lots of peripherals and two displays.
YMMV
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Manoli

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Re: Mac Studio
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2022, 05:48:01 am »

A heads-up regarding the internal SSDs, claimed by Apple to deliver about 7.4 GB/sec. AFAIK, the fastest internal SSD's have a real-world I/O of about 3.3 GB/sec, and external NVMEs run at about 2.7GB/sec. According to diglloyd, again, macOS has a performance bug that cuts ultra-fast SSD speed in half.

https://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2021/20211022_1830-Apple-MacBookProM1X-SSD.html
https://macperformanceguide.com/MacBookPro2021-SSD.html

Personally, all data is stored on external 2TB pro-SSDs. Internal SSD storage is only for applications and scratch disks. So the value of maxing internal SSD storage, which can't be replaced, for me, is moot.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2022, 06:00:58 am by Manoli »
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mcbroomf

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Re: Mac Studio
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2022, 07:19:37 am »

This guy (Artisright) did a lot of pretty good testing on the whole range of M1 silicon laptops.  He's just released a video overview of the Studio and describe which one's he's ordered for testing.  Worth checking out I think.
Artisright Studio overview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qYu9CAqYK8


I tested (LR only) a pair of 14" MBP's (one Pro and one Max) together with my HP laptop and Puget desktop.  Results linked below with a description.  I will be replacing my desktop but not for a few years so luckily will have time to read reviews and test and even wait for the next gen;
MBP tests
https://photos.app.goo.gl/BNVtXvVkUUGNGNBk9

Tests of 6 shot HDR, 15 HDR/Pano, 36 shot HDR/Pano and 54 shot HDR/Pano in up to date Lightroom Classic. Times clocked (handheld watch so +/- 5 secs or so) for the final DNG to complete, but time also noted on the way for the Preview window to complete (then Merge pressed immediately), eg 1.17 / 2.34 means 1 min 17 secs for Preview to finish, then a total time (not added) of 2 mins 34 secs for the DNG to finish.

4 different machines tested with configs shown in cols 1,2,3.

All files Sony A1 lossless compressed.

Lightroom run in a variety of ways on the laptops with the catalog on the internal drive as well as an external drive, same with the image files, shown in cols 4 and 5. External drives were a Samsung T7 (2 TB) and on the HP a Sabrent Rocket Thunderbolt 3 drive was also used (8TB).

Some interesting things to note; Lightroom needed restarting 3 times on the M1 MBP and once on the HP laptop as merge previews just failed to run (3 different file sets). On restart LR run as expected though I did get s short time on the Mac after one of the restarts. One instance of a message on the MBP that the DNG failed to import from the external drive.  Seems LR needs a refresh sometimes.  I've never seen this before but I typically do not throw merge after merge at it, so if it's a memory leak or cache bloat problem it may have time to recover in typical use.

The 54 shot test was 6 shot pano with 9 brackets each, the 36 shot test was 12 shot pano with 3 brackets each, the 15 shot test was a 5 shot pano with 3 brackets each. The projection was changed on each one. To do this I started the HDR/Pano, then switched the projection, then cancelled the test and restarted it (so it started up with the changed projection).
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vjbelle

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Re: Mac Studio
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2022, 03:13:12 pm »

I bit the bullet.  Ultra 20 core 48 core GPU 64GB Ram 2TB SSD.  Can't imagine needing more than this.  B&H says shipping starts on the 18th so I'll report back if I get it this month.  Will be using an Eizo 4k CS2740 monitor so this should be a good match for the Mac. 

Victor B.
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vjbelle

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Re: Mac Studio
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2022, 01:10:12 pm »

On Apple's site when a 2TB SSD is added the ship to date extends out to June.  The same if ram is increased to 128 GB.  So I have decided to max out the ram and stay with the 2TB SSD.  Don't need this right now so June will work for me. 

Victor B.
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BAB

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Re: Mac Studio
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2022, 01:33:12 pm »

Mike B.

I had the same issues with the MacBook Pro M1 Max 4 TB, 64GB as far as PS and LR crashing 3-5 times a day with large files so I returned the thing. Back on my 2019 MacBook Pro loaded its been since December that I running PS and LR daily and I think maybe Ive had 1 crash...I will wait for the M2 at this point before upgrading.

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vjbelle

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Re: Mac Studio
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2022, 03:22:21 pm »

My M1 is the Pro version not the max with 32GB of memory and I have not had any issues with 4150 files and three or four layers.  Very fast without any issues...... so far. 

Victor B.
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mcbroomf

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Re: Mac Studio
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2022, 08:39:55 pm »

Mike B.

I had the same issues with the MacBook Pro M1 Max 4 TB, 64GB as far as PS and LR crashing 3-5 times a day with large files so I returned the thing. Back on my 2019 MacBook Pro loaded its been since December that I running PS and LR daily and I think maybe Ive had 1 crash...I will wait for the M2 at this point before upgrading.

That is interesting.  Since I started using mine for normal use I've not had any issues.  I have been doing panos and HDR and a few combos, but not set after set as I did with the testing.  I can't recall if LR has been updated since I ran these tests but I think so, and will keep testing it of course.  Mine it soo late to return now.
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hubell

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Re: Mac Studio
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2022, 02:26:29 pm »

Everyone's needs are different. I don't shoot focus stacks or multi-row panos with 40 files, or convert 100's of raws to JPEGs. Or, regularly download 500+ files from a card. However, I do regularly use Helicon Focus with 4-6 files and Topaz Gigapixel and Sharpen AI with medium format files of 50-80 MP. I will be looking to see what the real world differences are between the various configurations of the Mac Studio with those tasks in mind before I order. Hopefully, someone will run such tests and publish the results. The Artisright guy did do a video comparing the various configurations of the Macbooks with the M1 Max chip on Gigapixel AI and Sharpen AI. Very interesting results. You can easily blow a lot of money on upgrades that will have little if any advantages in real world applications.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2022, 07:34:16 pm by hubell »
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kers

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Re: Mac Studio
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2022, 12:53:45 pm »

According to C-net the basic mac studio has GPU power comparable with an a 2500€ windows laptop like Razer Blade 14 ( 3.3GHz AMD Ryzen 5900HX, Nvidia GeForce RTX 3080)
(and not surprising the same speed as the laptop with the same chip; the MacBook Pro, 16-inch, M1 Max)
They have not tested the Ultra version of the Mac Studio yet.

I wonder how this computer deals with real life GPU intensive tasks like Topaz Denoise.
my computer still takes one minute to work on a 45MP file, far too slow.

https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/apple-mac-studio-review/
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Chris Kern

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Re: Mac Studio
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2022, 07:24:32 pm »

Needless to say, a teardown was inevitable.  It came a bit earlier than I anticipated, and Vadim Yuryev's presenting style is a bit hyperventilated for my taste, but if you want to know what's really inside the box, it's available here.

kers

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Re: Mac Studio
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2022, 04:43:42 am »

Needless to say, a teardown was inevitable.  It came a bit earlier than I anticipated, and Vadim Yuryev's presenting style is a bit hyperventilated for my taste, but if you want to know what's really inside the box, it's available here.
That motherboard is impressive small and neat. Huge processor area...
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Chris L

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Re: Mac Studio
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2022, 11:52:40 am »

hi I am shopping for a Mac Studio to replace my 2010 Mac Pro 2x2.66 6 Core Intel Xeon machine with 128 Gb of memory, a Radeon RX 580 8 GB Graphics Card, and Running Mojave. I replaced the HD last year but do not have an SSD. It works pretty well for both Capture One, Photoshop, and FCPx 4k video. My thought was to replace it with the $2,800 Mac Studio Max 10 Core CPU, 64 gb Ram, 32 Core GPU, 1 TB SSD. My guess is even though I will have less Ram the Mac Studio will at least be slightly faster than my current Mac Pro that seems to be slowing down. I am on a budget of $3k. My question is:

-Is this a sufficient machine to at least slightly upgrade my Mac Pro?

-How will the Graphics card compare? When I replied my Graphics card in the Mac Pro I was surprised how big it was. There is not much room in the Mac Studio for a graphics card, will I be worse off with the Mac Studio?

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mcbroomf

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Re: Mac Studio
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2022, 04:25:19 pm »

I posted this on another thread ... on the top link Jeff included two 2019 Mac Pros in his testing.

ooooo

Here are a couple of links worth reviewing.

On FM.  I have tested 2 versions of the Macbook Pro using HDR/Panos in Lightroom as well as my 2 windows machines.  The table is further into the thread.  Jeff also ran some benchmarks and the same HDR/Panos using my files as well as other tests on several machines including 3 versions of the Studio.  Both are included in this thread.
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1748848

On Youtube.  This guy Art has a whole series of tests on LRC, PS and C1 going back to the 1st M1 chip in the Mac Mini and has tested an extensive series of MBP's and now 2 versions of the Studio.  You don't need to go back to the very 1st test videos as he always shows tables with all his data when he's testing a new machine.
https://www.youtube.com/c/ArtIsRight/videos

Both links include the performance of older Mac machines and in my case my Windows desktop and laptop.  As you'll see some tasks just scream with the new Apple silicon, beating even well heeled Mac Pros, tasks that don't use multi-cores as well have less of an improvement but still beat out older Macs.

Hope this helps but ask any questions ...
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