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Author Topic: Big Sur to Monterey colour inaccuracy  (Read 1714 times)

digitaldog

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Re: Big Sur to Monterey colour inaccuracy
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2022, 12:54:13 pm »

So, just t confirm, sir, did you update to 23.2 of PS and found no colour difference between it and 23.1.1?
I never saw any version of either Photoshop or OS12.x produce any output issues.
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digitaldog

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Re: Big Sur to Monterey colour inaccuracy
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2022, 01:13:06 pm »

I used this method when we had our issue with Monterey. There was a de of more than 1.0. As I said it was slight.
So the target was made in 16-bit and when you converted to 8-bit, Dither was OFF in color settings? Gotta be.
See the difference (subtract) between converting 16-bit image to 8-bit with and without Dither on; there's a dE of 1 or more:
« Last Edit: February 18, 2022, 01:16:39 pm by digitaldog »
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Mick Sang

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Re: Big Sur to Monterey colour inaccuracy
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2022, 07:36:19 pm »

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I never saw any version of either Photoshop or OS12.x produce any output issues.

Ok, thank you. Just want to be certain.

Mick
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Mick Sang

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Re: Big Sur to Monterey colour inaccuracy
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2022, 07:41:17 pm »

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So the target was made in 16-bit and when you converted to 8-bit, Dither was OFF in color settings?

No, unfortunately it wasn't. Nevertheless, it confirmed what we were seeing. But, now that this has been pointed out, we will be sure to do it properly in future. I see why it needs to be turned off - fascinating! We should have thought of it. Thanks again, very much.

Mick
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neil snape

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Re: Big Sur to Monterey colour inaccuracy
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2022, 03:02:15 am »

I printed on a fresh roil of Hahnemuhle PhotoRag Baryta yesterday.
I had updated to Monterey due to the missing V4 profiles in Big Sur.
Previously I printed from LR Classic with no problems other than my awful HP Z9 that doesn't know how to handle color well. The canned OEM profiles for this worked out well and were only slightly better when I made my own.
The OEM profiles yesterday made for way magenta skin tones. The printer was calibrated for the new paper.
I had to make a new i1 Profiler V2 profile to correct for the cast. I printed from Adobe Printer Utility.

The results were close, yet a slight loss in contrast, and a slight green shadow transition in skin. But that is not the first time I've seen this on this printer. Yet the Hahnemuhle OEM profile surprised me as it printed way too magenta whereas previously it was very good?

Is it Monterey, or fragments / carried over files from Big Sur.

PS, all soft preview functions work as expected, as did a print order on a Fuji Frontier, as did a large print at WhiteWall ( big lab in Germany).
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Mick Sang

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Re: Big Sur to Monterey colour inaccuracy
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2022, 10:30:57 am »

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Is it Monterey, or fragments / carried over files from Big Sur.

Based upon our experience, it is perhaps "fragments carried over from Big Sur." We had to reinstall Monterey a total of 3 times until the colour issues we were experiencing cleared up. Based upon a post by Mr. Andrew Rodney we felt confident that was the issue and it apparently was.

That said, now we're going through that with Photoshop 23.2 after an update from 23.1.1. Fortunately though we can print from several other apps successfully.

Mick

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Mick Sang

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Re: Big Sur to Monterey colour inaccuracy
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2022, 09:24:27 pm »

So we have deleted and reinstalled Photoshop 23.2 five times now on this Mac that we were using to test the new OS waters and we are still unable to get accurate prints from PhotoShop. We also tried to print our test file from LightRoom earlier this afternoon and it too yields entirely inaccurate prints. However, prints from Print Tool and Qimage One are perfectly accurate. Our test image is a set of various images with a grey scale and colour scale. The colour scale has 6 solid bars which are comprised of R,G,B,C,M,Y, white and black. The red is warm; the magenta appears to be roughly 25% saturation; the cyan is almost as blue as the blue patch; the green is blue etc. Colour is way off, as are all of the the colour images. If it were not for confirmation of successfully printed results from the likes of Andrew Rodney and others, we would be of the opinion that PS and LR simply don't work in Monterey. But, since many folks have had success, I have no idea what might cause this aside from some damaged bit of software persisting in the mix despite the deletions and reinstalls. Everything else seems to be working including soft proofing - but NOT printing.

We're at a loss to know what next to do. Does anyone have any ideas or has anyone had similar experience in Monterey?

Thanks,
Mick
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digitaldog

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Re: Big Sur to Monterey colour inaccuracy
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2022, 10:16:12 pm »

So we have deleted and reinstalled Photoshop 23.2 five times now on this Mac that we were using to test the new OS waters and we are still unable to get accurate prints from PhotoShop.
Albert Einstein- "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different result”
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Does anyone have any ideas or has anyone had similar experience in Monterey?
Do a clean install of the OS. Then install all your applications (Photoshop first), run a test.
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Mick Sang

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Re: Big Sur to Monterey colour inaccuracy
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2022, 10:54:16 pm »

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Do a clean install of the OS. Then install all your applications (Photoshop first), run a test.

Thank you, sir, for this quick response and for your help. I suppose we'll have to bite the bullet and do that. But, I can't understand why everything works but LR and PS. What could the difference be between these apps versus Print Tool that makes them all work with the OS so differently? I don't expect an answer to this. We will do as you suggest. But, it bugs me nonetheless.

Mick
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tomnash

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Re: Big Sur to Monterey colour inaccuracy
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2022, 05:33:44 pm »

However, the old 16-bit check box bug IS back! DO NOT set an Epson whose Mac print driver has such an option to be on. It doesn't do jack and worse, it prints awful. Otherwise, everything is fine and matches my output from older Mac OSs.

Just to add information/confusion ---

Short story: I found the 16 bit bug when printing from Photoshop, but not when printing from Lightroom Classic.

Long Saga: With a brand new MacStudio Ultra and Studio Display and a freshly calibrated Spectravision P271Q, I decided to fire up an old Epson 4880 which had not been used for a couple of years and cleared out its clogs (one power cycle) and checked head alignment. Then printed a set of tests with Lightroom Classic on my last roll of Ilford GFS with the Ilford profile at my usual settings, 16 bit, 2880, etc. There was a decided green cast (correction needed of ~15M in old color darkroom terms) compared to the calibrated soft proof screens AND an old print from the same file (which agreed sufficiently with the screens). So something changed. I had been sure to put in new Magenta & Light Magenta cartridges.

So I went through numerous tests including full nozzle checks and changing every parameter I could think of including 16 bit on and off, and printing from an old Intel based iMac and the new Apple Silicon on the latest beta of Monterey and the latest Epson driver. Nothing made any difference to the green(ish) cast. All this on LR Classic.

So, I switched to Photoshop, same settings (16 bit on) and a really horrible dense, dark, shadows blocked up mess came out. After another day (and with my Ilford GFS running out) I started making test strips on manually fed ends of the roll, and switched off 16 bit. That got me back to the new normal with the greenish cast (still printing with Photoshop).

I will wait until B&H delivers the new Ilford Gold Fibre Gloss on Monday which I will try as a replacement for Gold Fibre Silk to see whether the greenish cast persists. Ilford support sent me a profile for GFG which they have not yet put up on their website.

For clarity, I switched of 16 bit both in the application(s) dialog and in the Epson print driver dialog. I presume the application switch determines whether 16 bit is sent to the printer, and print driver switch determines whether the printer will use 16 bits if it gets it [?]
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digitaldog

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Re: Big Sur to Monterey colour inaccuracy
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2022, 05:41:44 pm »

The 16 bit option doesn't do anything. Just ignore it.
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drb

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Re: Big Sur to Monterey colour inaccuracy
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2022, 01:53:19 am »

Thank you, sir, for this quick response and for your help. I suppose we'll have to bite the bullet and do that. But, I can't understand why everything works but LR and PS. What could the difference be between these apps versus Print Tool that makes them all work with the OS so differently? I don't expect an answer to this. We will do as you suggest. But, it bugs me nonetheless.

Mick

Hi, I don't check these forums frequently, but are you by any chance printing on Canon printers?  I've seen multiple cases when doing a MacOS upgrade corrupts the Canon print drivers such that the colors are off when printing via PS or LR, but not necessarily with other apps.  It happened to me with the Canon Pro 1000 printer.  The fix is to make sure you've installed the correct print driver for the OS (e.g. Monterey), delete the printer and add it back again.
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Mick Sang

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Re: Big Sur to Monterey colour inaccuracy
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2022, 10:58:15 pm »

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but are you by any chance printing on Canon printers?

No, sorry. Intel based Mac computers  - 2015 and Epson printers.

Mick
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Abdo

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Re: Big Sur to Monterey colour inaccuracy
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2022, 06:15:51 pm »

There is no problem with Monterey, there are thousands of user configuration problems.
I tested Monterey, with previous tests, all perfect. And I had upgraded the system at the time, October 2021.
Last week I installed a Montery from scratch, and I did all the tests, all perfect and the same, running on PS or LR.
In addition, I have Windows 11 installed... all the same on both win 11 and Mac and running LR or PS.
I don't know where people can find so much trouble....

Mick Sang

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Re: Big Sur to Monterey colour inaccuracy
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2022, 10:46:44 pm »

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I don't know where people can find so much trouble....

Our problems were primarily with Big Sur. Monterey has seemed to be clean. What we found however is that we have a problem with our Adobe apps relative to Big Sur or Monterey. I say that because before we updated to either, our Adobe apps, Photoshop and Lightroom in particular, were working perfectly. So, the OS seemed to be the issue. But, it wasn't.  In any case, we have reinstalled Photoshop and Lightroom as well as Monterey 3 times each and our colour from that particular MAC is still way off when printing from PS or LR. It is like the profiles are not being picked up. Otherwise, files created in either Photoshop or Lightroom are perfect except when it comes to printing. We have to print those files either from another Mac running Mojave or from the Monterey Mac using Print Tool or Qimage. Go figure. I don't know what else to do - none of us do.....yet.

Mick
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