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Author Topic: Inexpensive high quality matte paper  (Read 2195 times)

deanwork

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Inexpensive high quality matte paper
« on: February 11, 2022, 02:13:02 pm »

There probably isnít such a thing but I need to research.

The cheapest smooth natural fine art papers that Iíve used are Moab Entrada ( which went up recently ) and Epson Hot Press natural. But these arenít that cost effective either these days.

I have a client that wants to do nearly 100 bw 30x40s and is looking for a price point lower than Iíve quoted for half of them. Iím looking for something that prints very well but doesnít have to have stellar longevity for this design firm to put in their new buildings. Definitely donít want rc media and would like to avoid bluish optical brighteners.

I havenít worked with any of the Breathing Color matte papers in years and their prices arenít cheap these days either.

John
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mcbroomf

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Re: Inexpensive high quality matte paper
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2022, 02:31:29 pm »

You could take a look at Red River.  I use their 47lb matt paper for image eval before putting in something expensive.  They make a thicker version which you'd probably be more interested in or the more expensive Polar Matt.  I've not looked at prices vs BC or Moab though it looks like only Polar matt is available in 36 and 44" rolls right now.  The Polar matt does list brighteners in the spec but the Premium Matt's don't mention one way or the other.

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tastar

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Re: Inexpensive high quality matte paper
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2022, 02:55:18 pm »

There is also Proof Line Premium Matte 10 mil, 230 gsm - at ITSupplies, it's $165.58 for a 44 inch x 130 ft. roll: "Premium Matte Paper is modeled on the most popular inkjet Matte paper on the market. The microporous coating provides an excellent surface to hold the darkest of Black Points and is designed for high quality fine art & photographic reproduction print applications with Inkjet / Giclee technology." It's not clear if it has OBAs.

Proof Line Premium Matte

Tony
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deanwork

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Re: Inexpensive high quality matte paper
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2022, 03:27:13 pm »

Thanks guys. I must have 44Ē rolls and Polar White RR is way too bluish bright . I have never tried Proofline 240 gsm matte media. Iím going to order some to test. I only need it for bw right now so color gamut isnít a factor. That is a fantastic price both from itt and shades of paper. I need to have a quality lower cost option here that doesnít flake is fairly sharp and absorbs ink well.

John




There is also Proof Line Premium Matte 10 mil, 230 gsm - at ITSupplies, it's $165.58 for a 44 inch x 130 ft. roll: "Premium Matte Paper is modeled on the most popular inkjet Matte paper on the market. The microporous coating provides an excellent surface to hold the darkest of Black Points and is designed for high quality fine art & photographic reproduction print applications with Inkjet / Giclee technology." It's not clear if it has OBAs.

Proof Line Premium Matte

Tony
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John Nollendorfs

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Re: Inexpensive high quality matte paper
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2022, 05:35:19 pm »

John:
I've been using Red River Aurora Natural for years. Price just went up to $81/ 24x50' roll 300gms.
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mearussi

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Stephen G

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Re: Inexpensive high quality matte paper
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2022, 01:32:48 am »

If you can get hold of it then Felix Schoeller True Rag Etching 310g (J24770) is great. Round here it's more affordable than all the other 300g cotton fine art papers. Also it handles very well in framing, it's a stiff 300g paper.
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Paul_Roark

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Re: Inexpensive high quality matte paper
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2022, 11:15:40 am »

John:
I've been using Red River Aurora Natural for years. ...

I'm also a fan of Red River Aurora Natural, as well as their satin roll paper (sprayed with Print Shield) where glassless display is anticipated.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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deanwork

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Re: Inexpensive high quality matte paper
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2022, 01:42:53 pm »

What I would like is the Felix Schoeller smooth rag and their etching media, but see no suppliers in the US. Do I have to order from Germany? Thatís risky to get supply quickly if needed.

Could it be that the Red River IS the same material?

Looks like Iím going to stick with Entrada whenever I can. Itís a great paper though more expensive now, but not in Canson or Hahnemuehle range.

From other posts I see that the Epson Hot Press has been discontinued and they offer some replacement that has reduced dmax?

John



If you can get hold of it then Felix Schoeller True Rag Etching 310g (J24770) is great. Round here it's more affordable than all the other 300g cotton fine art papers. Also it handles very well in framing, it's a stiff 300g paper.
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plasakow

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Re: Inexpensive high quality matte paper
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2022, 06:09:12 pm »

I've got a very specialized operation and exclusively use HP Premium Matte Photo Paper, to the tune of about 6 miles of 24" rolls annually.  I use it because it does fine for my purposes and is relatively cheap at around $80/roll delivered by the palette load direct from the manufacturer. I've used similar Red River products that were a bit less expensive, but for my purposes didn't work because of the difficulty rolling them up (there's a quality about the back of the HP stock that lets me roll prints really fast). 

I'd be interested in hearing others' opinions about HP Premium Matte. I don't claim to be an expert- I just know how to do what I do. 
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tastar

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Re: Inexpensive high quality matte paper
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2022, 08:08:45 am »

Just a quick FYI - Epson Hot Press Bright and Natural (in the U.S.) have had the same part numbers since 2010, and has not been discontinued. Our supplier just got a bunch of it in (it has been back ordered, but most sizes are now in stock).

Tony
« Last Edit: February 15, 2022, 10:05:32 am by tastar »
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deanwork

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Re: Inexpensive high quality matte paper
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2022, 10:36:42 am »

You are correct it has not been discontinued like someone posted .

 The problem though is the mottling and flaking of the coating that is going on. There are lots of reports of that. Iíll stick with Moab Entrada for natural white and the Epson Legacy or Arches for brighter white. I wish there was a source for Felix Schoeller fine art media in the US. Probably wouldnít be prudent for his relationship with Epson and Canson. Shipping from Germany would cancel any price advantage.




Just a quick FYI - Epson Hot Press Bright and Natural (in the U.S.) have had the same part numbers since 2010, and has not been discontinued. Our supplier just got a bunch of it in (it has been back ordered, but most sizes are now in stock).

Tony
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dgberg

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Re: Inexpensive high quality matte paper
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2022, 11:22:03 am »

Cheapest we have used is Epson Enhanced Matte on 24" rolls is 200 sq. ft. for $60.00. Free shipping from Lexjet.
A nice economy paper

MarkFarber

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Re: Inexpensive high quality matte paper
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2022, 09:15:53 pm »

I'll second the vote on Epson Enhanced Matte.  It's thin, so I wouldn't necessarily recommend it for hand-held portfolio prints.  But mounted or framed, it has amazingly good image quality.  Print some 8.5x11 test prints against any of the cotton rags, and you'll be surprised.  When I had a Canon printer, i had a custom profile made so I could use it.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Inexpensive high quality matte paper
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2022, 05:38:05 am »

Cheapest we have used is Epson Enhanced Matte on 24" rolls is 200 sq. ft. for $60.00. Free shipping from Lexjet.
A nice economy paper

That is the paper that changed its name over time when it became more and more clear that the paper white shifted color due to the OBA content.  Is it actually still called Enhanced Matte? I thought Epson dropped that label too. Aardenburg-Imaging has a test file on it AFAIK.

190 grams.  I see in the different replies quite a diversity of weights, qualities and corresponding prices.

My choice for years now is the Innova IFA24 210 grams, most likely a Felix Schoeller product and 200 grams. 10 grams difference to the true weight is quite common. Dual coated exists too in sheet sizes.

SpectrumViz screengrab added. The brown plot showing OBA content is the Epson paper. Red pike is showing what a heavy OBA only effect would be.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots



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Ferp

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Re: Inexpensive high quality matte paper
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2022, 04:57:41 pm »

That is the paper that changed its name over time when it became more and more clear that the paper white shifted color due to the OBA content.  Is it actually still called Enhanced Matte? I thought Epson dropped that label too.

It has changed its name several times, and it is named differently in different markets.  It was originally Epson Archival (hah!) Matte, and is still sold under than name in some markets, despite not being archival by any reasonable definition.  In many markets Epson changed it to Epson Enhanced Matte, and again, is still sold under that name in some markets.  In some countries the sheets are currently sold as EAM and the rolls as EEM.  Some years ago it was renamed again to the catchy title of Epson Ultra Premium Presentation Paper Matte, at least in some markets. 
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deanwork

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Re: Inexpensive high quality matte paper
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2022, 11:49:03 pm »

Ernst that sounds like a good one for me to try. What is the fade resistance of the Innova? I used to have bad ink absorption and bad batches with matte Innova, but that was a long time ago.

Enhanced Matte looked good, for about an hour until it started to turn gray in the borders right in our studio a few months after printing .  It was  garbage. I had a client show a bunch of works in a commercial exhibition space with lots of uv exposure . The big prints started turning noticeably gray in a few days even before the show cane down. Even  the colors faded. That was the last straw for me. That was about 20 years ago.






That is the paper that changed its name over time when it became more and more clear that the paper white shifted color due to the OBA content.  Is it actually still called Enhanced Matte? I thought Epson dropped that label too. Aardenburg-Imaging has a test file on it AFAIK.

190 grams.  I see in the different replies quite a diversity of weights, qualities and corresponding prices.

My choice for years now is the Innova IFA24 210 grams, most likely a Felix Schoeller product and 200 grams. 10 grams difference to the true weight is quite common. Dual coated exists too in sheet sizes.

SpectrumViz screengrab added. The brown plot showing OBA content is the Epson paper. Red pike is showing what a heavy OBA only effect would be.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Inexpensive high quality matte paper
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2022, 06:53:59 am »

Ernst that sounds like a good one for me to try. What is the fade resistance of the Innova? I used to have bad ink absorption and bad batches with matte Innova, but that was a long time ago.

Enhanced Matte looked good, for about an hour until it started to turn gray in the borders right in our studio a few months after printing .  It was  garbage. I had a client show a bunch of works in a commercial exhibition space with lots of uv exposure . The big prints started turning noticeably gray in a few days even before the show cane down. Even  the colors faded. That was the last straw for me. That was about 20 years ago.

A longer reply was lost half an hour ago. Telegram style: Check Felix Schoeller pages on EU "archival" certificates, if there are any. I doubt there are independent test results. In practice: I have for more than at least 5 years, prints hanging in all rooms, made with that paper. Laminated to white HIPS with archival mounting tape. No glass in front. Compared to fresh sheets I see no paper white shifts. I have not heard issues from customers either. For them it is used for posters.

One issue is that paperfish like it.  So if framed behind glass or stored in stacks you may see trails sometimes. Probably a starch in the coating they like. I would not frame it loose between backing and glass either. Too thin and waves in the paper will form.

Image quality is really good. Not a totally smooth texture but like normal Photorag but a bit more directionally in fibers.

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deanwork

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Re: Inexpensive high quality matte paper
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2022, 11:58:04 am »

Cool. Thanks


 :)
A longer reply was lost half an hour ago. Telegram style: Check Felix Schoeller pages on EU "archival" certificates, if there are any. I doubt there are independent test results. In practice: I have for more than at least 5 years, prints hanging in all rooms, made with that paper. Laminated to white HIPS with archival mounting tape. No glass in front. Compared to fresh sheets I see no paper white shifts. I have not heard issues from customers either. For them it is used for posters.

One issue is that paperfish like it.  So if framed behind glass or stored in stacks you may see trails sometimes. Probably a starch in the coating they like. I would not frame it loose between backing and glass either. Too thin and waves in the paper will form.

Image quality is really good. Not a totally smooth texture but like normal Photorag but a bit more directionally in fibers.
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Ferp

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Re: Inexpensive high quality matte paper
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2022, 05:13:12 pm »

I've made some use of that paper over the past 15 years or so, and I've never seen any of the problems that John described.  It's a good quality cheaper paper that I have used for less serious things.  Sometimes as a proofing paper, although it's cooler and brighter than rag papers that I'd use for final prints.
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