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Author Topic: Capture One 22 - Panoramic Merge  (Read 3967 times)

dreed

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Capture One 22 - Panoramic Merge
« on: December 11, 2021, 04:08:30 am »

Given Capture One's reputation as being a premier raw converter I was very eager to see what they'd deliver in the panorama space. To put it simply, they haven't. They may have delivered for some simple merges but when I compare it with what I can get from Adobe's current very of Lightroom or even the PTgui test version, the quality is not there. It's entirely possible that the scenes I'm trying to merge are non-trivial, but you don't get 9/10 in the Olympic gymnastics because you can do basic routines.

In wide panorama landscapes shot during the day, there are two challenges: lining up the details and getting smooth colour transformations. C-1v22 achieved neither of those in the tests I ran.

At this late stage of the game with photography software, it would be better to see Capture One find a way to integrate PTgui (which is the premier panorama stiching software solution.)

Attachments 1 & 4 are of the same stitched source images (#1 is C-1, #4 is LR).
Attachments 2 & 3 are of the same stitched source images (#2 is C-1, #3 is LR).
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dreed

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Re: Capture One 22 - Panoramic Merge
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2021, 04:25:41 am »

And the somersault equivalent for stitching... lovely file, lots of good detail, no merge problems. An easy merge for all applications.
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Chairman Bill

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Re: Capture One 22 - Panoramic Merge
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2021, 05:16:14 am »

I've only tried it with one image - not overly impressed. My biggest gripe is the way they've changed the Export function. It took ages to work out how to export a file.

Ray Harrison

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Re: Capture One 22 - Panoramic Merge
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2021, 06:38:05 am »

It's exactly where I expected it to be for a first release. A little bit better, actually. Expectations met. It will improve over time, of course. I try not to get caught up in the myth of equivalency - product A releases something product B has had for N years and product A's release should be at or above product B's experience. We all want that but in reality, it's rare that software or hardware can actually work that way. Neither HDR nor panoramas are particularly important features to me but apparently people have been clamoring for it. As for integrating software - e.g. PTGUi - the experience wouldn't be as good as one would hope. Putting together two different code bases is much, much harder than simply writing the feature yourself. Even going down the plugin route is rarely a seamless or trouble-free experience and requires the cooperation of both companies if you're going to be truly successful. The Helicon experience in C1 is doable, but clunky, for example. Best to get the feature out the door, complaints and all, and evolve it, imo.
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Paul2660

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Re: Capture One 22 - Panoramic Merge
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2021, 05:35:41 pm »

So far I have found it hit and miss. With sky blends especially ones with a lot of pure blue it can hard to get a solution. They only give 4 solutions and no boundary warp as in LR.

Paul have
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Paul Caldwell
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ben730

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Re: Capture One 22 - Panoramic Merge
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2021, 04:54:19 pm »

Hi
I only tested it with shifted files (Digaron 32, Cambo WRS, IQ150). 3 Pictures, 15mm left, center, 15mm right.
It worked perfect and saved time compared to export and merge in PS.
I like also the HDR function. It is a great improvement.
I am quite happy, so far. But I only want to solve rudimentary tasks.
Too much HDR possibilities often destroy a picture, same with panos.
 
Regards,
Ben

ben730

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Re: Capture One 22 - Panoramic Merge/HDR
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2021, 02:30:19 pm »

I have just recognized that LCC does not work properly with the HDR function.
I have some green artifacts in the dark areas when I apply the LCC to the HDR.dng file.
Has somebody recognized the same?
Thanks,
Ben

Ben Rubinstein

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Re: Capture One 22 - Panoramic Merge/HDR
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2021, 11:40:46 am »

I have just recognized that LCC does not work properly with the HDR function.
I have some green artifacts in the dark areas when I apply the LCC to the HDR.dng file.
Has somebody recognized the same?
Thanks,
Ben

I'm confused, are you applying LCC files to each frame separately and then the stitched file has artefacts? If not, perhaps that might solve the problem? I can't see how it would be possible for a LCC to be applied to the stitched pano file. It can't work by definition.
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ben730

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Re: Capture One 22 - Panoramic Merge/HDR
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2021, 12:04:18 pm »

I'm confused, are you applying LCC files to each frame separately and then the stitched file has artefacts? If not, perhaps that might solve the problem? I can't see how it would be possible for a LCC to be applied to the stitched pano file. It can't work by definition.

The problem is only with HDR.
When I apply the LCC file to each frame separately the LCC disappears in the stitched file and I can't apply it without artifacts to the merged (HDR.dng) file.
Panoramic merge works fine.
Regards,
Ben

Ben Rubinstein

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Re: Capture One 22 - Panoramic Merge/HDR
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2021, 03:02:14 am »

The problem is only with HDR.
When I apply the LCC file to each frame separately the LCC disappears in the stitched file and I can't apply it without artifacts to the merged (HDR.dng) file.
Panoramic merge works fine.
Regards,
Ben

My bad, apologies. Have you been in touch with C1 about this bug?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Capture One 22 - Panoramic Merge
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2021, 08:18:43 am »

Investing resources in the pano function was always going to be a waste.

PTGui is so incredibly superior it's not even funny. It's like comparing my daughter's compact camera capability to that of an 8x10...

I am major C1 Pro fan... but what were they thinking.

Cheers,
Bernard

kers

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Re: Capture One 22 - Panoramic Merge
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2021, 09:07:22 am »

...
I am major C1 Pro fan... but what were they thinking.

Cheers,
Bernard

probably: we need something extra to put in v 22
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Rhossydd

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Re: Capture One 22 - Panoramic Merge
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2021, 10:23:47 am »

I am major C1 Pro fan... but what were they thinking.
"How can we catch up with Lightroom."

Adding HDR and pans isn't going to be enough. Both features are too late and not good enough.
They need some innovation, not just trailing behind in almost every way and being more expensive too.
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fdisilvestro

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Re: Capture One 22 - Panoramic Merge
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2021, 01:50:57 pm »

... but what were they thinking.

Cheers,
Bernard

They weren't thinking

Paul2660

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Re: Capture One 22 - Panoramic Merge
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2021, 09:43:28 pm »

Investing in the pano function was not a waste. I agree ptgui is a great tool but the ability to stitch raw files in to a very good pano and then use all the C1 image tools and layers on it to me is a great advantage. For a first pass itís not that bad. Hopefully C1 will continue to improve it.  Ptgui has nothing for image development so glad to see this added to C1. And their HDR function is turning out to be very good.


Paul
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Capture One 22 - Panoramic Merge
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2021, 09:57:38 pm »

Investing in the pano function was not a waste. I agree ptgui is a great tool but the ability to stitch raw files in to a very good pano and then use all the C1 image tools and layers on it to me is a great advantage. For a first pass itís not that bad. Hopefully C1 will continue to improve it.  Ptgui has nothing for image development so glad to see this added to C1. And their HDR function is turning out to be very good.


Paul

Paul,

I would agree if C1 pro had a chance to improve their pano function to a usable level, but it may take years.

And frankly a workflow based on raw conversion in C1 Pro, stitching in PTgui and final adjustments in PS works great.

I look at this in terms of opportunity cost. I would far prefer them to work on core aspects such as noise reduction to close the gap with DxO or super resolution to close the gap with LR.

Auto level is nice but auto keystone is what I need.

Z9 support is nice, but why no support for high efficiency raw?

Cheers,
Bernard

« Last Edit: December 21, 2021, 10:01:02 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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Paul2660

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Re: Capture One 22 - Panoramic Merge
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2021, 09:26:16 am »

One thing that Ptgui never has figured out is a internal warping process.  I realize that some details can be lost if the warp is to extreme, but the solution can be very timely with a lot of panos I work on.  Wide angle lenses, with retro focus distortion will always have issues.  Even with nodal point determination.  LR boundary warp is something I prefer to use often. 

Back to C1, if they ever figure out the "sky select" mask option that is now available in LR and ACR, they will have a perfect tool/mask solution for me.  The new sky select in LR is really an amazing tool, even with out trees and fine details.  No haloing etc.  I have yet to find anything in C1 that can get a sky to horizon mask this perfect, with just one click.

Paul

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Rhossydd

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Re: Capture One 22 - Panoramic Merge
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2021, 09:46:01 am »

The new sky select in LR is really an amazing tool, even with out trees and fine details.  No haloing etc.
+1 It really is an amazing tool. Subject masking has surprised me at how well it gets things right too.
The whole masking tool set in the current version of LR is a significant step forward. There's room for some refinement in it's UI, but even now extremely beneficial.

It's this sort of innovation that C1 will need to find to retain market share. DXO have also raised the bar with DeepPrime nr, so there are doors to open.

 
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Paul2660

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Re: Capture One 22 - Panoramic Merge
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2022, 02:51:58 pm »

After a lot more testing, on both 35mm digital, and DJI drone 20MP shots, I am finding that C1 has more work to do if they want to get to a level that Ptgui is at, (so I have to agree with Bernard).

Issues I am finding:

Not very good blending of sky, it misses as much as it gets a even sky.
LCC's are dropped during the creation of the pano (not sure if this is a bug or intended), both with Phase One IQ260 LCC shots and LCC's for DJI 20MP Mavic 2 Pro
No warping in process of creation of pano (something PTgui doesn't have either and I so wish they would), so work is done in CC to finish out areas not created with image detail.
No manual boundary warp option, as in LR, still love this feature
Crap shoot on even horizons, as it gets about 60% 70% of them even, but should be able to do better.

My single biggest issue is the first on, as if you get a piss poor sky blend, pretty much all bets are off on the rest of the pano. 

Paul
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Gu Shiin

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Re: Capture One 22 - Panoramic Merge
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2022, 04:51:44 am »

Hi
I only tested it with shifted files (Digaron 32, Cambo WRS, IQ150). 3 Pictures, 15mm left, center, 15mm right.
It worked perfect and saved time compared to export and merge in PS.
I like also the HDR function. It is a great improvement.
I am quite happy, so far. But I only want to solve rudimentary tasks.
Too much HDR possibilities often destroy a picture, same with panos.
 
Regards,
Ben

Hi Ben,

Are you working with DB version or Pro?

The DB version merges files then becomes greyed out, not allowing further edit nor export. Not sure if that's been addressed or not, or am I doing something wrong?

Cheers
Gu
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