Color Meters

[John Camp]

I have a range of cameras, which have a range of WB problems. I can fix it later by guessing (I almost always shoot RAW) or I can shoot multiple times off a Whibal or a ColorChecker. But I've been wondering lately about something like a Gossen 3F color meter (for which I've lately seen more ads.) I've never had a color meter, and I'm wondering...would this be a one-button solution for all the WB/color problems? Has anyone used one?

JC

[michaelnotar]

only the really expensive ones do color temp(broncolor makes one $1000-2000), others do CC/filter correction useful mostly for film. you can get an old pentax or minolta color meter for $400 a color meter might be helpful to determine different light source color for mixed lighting. i just shoot everything raw and after a year of shooting and 12,000 shots later i really know my color balance. shooting a grey scale/color checker is helpful, mostly i correct to what seems right to the subject. often i spend time correcting the grey scale to absolutely perfect, but then the white seamless doesnt look right or person's skin....or whatever...

i have a canon 1dmark 2 and rebel xt, the 1d is great for color, the rebel settings are extremely warm, but i learned how to deal with each and how to color correct well.
mn

I have a range of cameras, which have a range of WB problems. I can fix it later by guessing (I almost always shoot RAW) or I can shoot multiple times off a Whibal or a ColorChecker. But I've been wondering lately about something like a Gossen 3F color meter (for which I've lately seen more ads.) I've never had a color meter, and I'm wondering...would this be a one-button solution for all the WB/color problems? Has anyone used one?

JC
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[ericstaud]

I have the minolta color meter.  I don't use it for digital.  A color meter is still subjective like using an exposure meter or color balancing off a gray card.  A gray card and color meter work the same way really.  You can take multiple readings pointing either one at the light source, the camera, or towards a secondary light source or fill.   The problem with a color meter is, how would you apply the measurement numbers to the images?  You would need to put your camera on a fixed setting (like daylight) and use filters on the lens to apply the color meter corrections.  The numbers the color meter gives you would not correlate to the Kelvin and tint numbers in your software, so some translation would be involved.  You would have the be writing down the numbers for each measurement and transpose them later.  With a gray card, you are shooting a neutral reference and taking the color meter readings later, by click balancing in the RAW software.

A simple and small card like one of these works well:

http://www.outbackphoto.com/workflow/wf_46/essay.html

I use the disposable, 3 patch, White-Gray-Black card.

A color meter can be of better use if you are shooting in mixed lighting and are using lighting gels to brings the color of the lights closer together.  You can point the meter right at the window, strobe head, tungsten light, or fill card to see their kelvin values.

The color meter and the gray card will make the same mistakes.  Room interiors are most often warm in color.  A color meter or gray card balance will suck all the warm color out of the room if you take a reading towards the camera.  Readings in open shade will make the pictures neutral, but you may want the light to look cool like it does in real life.

So you can see from my rambling, a color meter will be educational in the field.  It will get you thinking about color, and give you direct feedback.  I don't think it will become a vital part of your workflow.  You may get better (and less expesive)  feedback by shooting more gray cards and playing with the results in your RAW software.

-Eric

[PatrikR]

This color balance issue has been a great interest to me for a long time. I remember when I had aqquired my 1Ds and used to shoot in daylight with the white balance set to 5500K I would get the same 5500K in raw converters like Phase One C1 and later in Adobes Camera Raw.

When I upgraded to 1Ds M2 this didn't apply. If I dialed in 5500K as the camera white balance the numbers wouldn't match in any raw converter. Now I would get 5200K +5 of Magenta shift in CR and something else in C1. 5D has a different 5500K than my 1Ds M2. The weirdest thing is the green/magenta shift to the Kelvin scale. That completely throws the black body theory out the window. I thought that all cameras would be neutralized for the kelvin scale.

If I dial 5000K I think that should show up as 5000K in all raw converters but it doesn't. Not in C1, Canon's DPP or Camera Raw except with the 1Ds that I no longer have.

I have discussed this with many colleagues but most wouldn't care and would pass my scientific dilemma with a modest grin by saying that I should use a grey card.

So I don't think a colormeter would work.

[Jonathan Wienke]

A color meter would be about useless because the number it shows isn't going to match the camera WB setting or (more importantly) the RAW converter WB setting. You're better off buying a neutral reference like a WhiBal or Color Checker, shooting it in the scene, and doing a click-WB in your RAW converter, then applying that setting to the rest of the shoot with that lighting.

[John Camp]

I had the impression that if you used a good color meter, that you would then get god's light temperature; that if the meter said 5500, this would be the internationally recognized 5500; then if one camera got 5300 in the same circumstances, and another 5700, could could simply compensate by dialing in a little more or less by knowing which camera ran a little hot or a lttle cool. This is not correct, I take it.

JC

[Hank]

Applying the measure you get from the color meter is the problem.  There are as many variables between it and your various cameras as you already experience, so you are likely to be adding to your problems rather than eliminating them.

In a crossover from film days, the only use we find for our color meter these days is in selecting filters and gels for mixed light sources, especially indoors-  say florescent and incandescent lighting of unknown temperature along with window light and strobe fill.  Even shooting raw, the image will look like it has been shot by a calico cat unless you filter carefully.

Using the color meter to help, we gel the windows and strobes, and then replace lightbulbs to achieve a match and gel those that won't, then finally custom white balance the camera.   Yup, it can take several hours to set up a single shot.

In outdoor shooting, especially at night where you are using strobe along with street lighting, the color meter will help in allowing you to gel the strobe to match street lighting, then do a custom white balance to compensate for both.

I've never had enough luck trying to use the color meter to justify its expense for creating warm light in cool ambient outdoor lighting.  Better simply to make a stab at it via a lens gel, then make final adjustments in Photoshop.  In that ap, gels are so cheap you can have a whole folder of options for less than you will spend on batteries for your color meter.

[Jonathan Wienke]

You don't have to have a color meter to make gels to color-match different light sources; all you need is a white reference and an inkjet printer that can print on transparencies.

Make your own flash gels

[spotmeter]

I have the Gossen 3F and find it very useful. I shoot a lot of landscapes in the shade, and find that the color temperature varies wildly from one place to another.  The colormeter helps me keep track of the light.

I also shoot panoramic transparencies with a Fuji GX617 and 4X5's with my Linhof.  It is critical for getting good color with film.