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Author Topic: buying epson or Canon Printer  (Read 2614 times)

garjac

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buying epson or Canon Printer
« on: October 17, 2021, 03:24:40 pm »

I am looking to buy a new printer and looking for advice on what is perferable.  I am looking at the Canon imagePROGRAF PRO-1000 17" Professional Photographic Inkjet Printer and the Epson SureColor P900 17" Photo Printer.  I have owned Epson before.  I don't print tons of photos but when I do print larger than 11-14 so the 17" is my go to.  any advice would be appreciated.  I use Windows and use photoshop and lightoom.  thank you in advance
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maxs

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Re: buying epson or Canon Printer
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2021, 02:53:44 pm »

I am in the same boat. Canon is obviously tried and tested but I keep thinking the minute I buy a Canon, the company will release a newer version. Epson I like the fact that it can take roll and the fact that it is newer. Reading through some of the comments on Epson on Amazon/BH/Adorama either Epson works perfectly (most of the reviews) or its dead on arrival. One other thing about the Canon is that it has a air suction mechanism that keeps the paper flat so that ink is dispersed evenly...not sure if it is more hype or if it has a real practice advantage over the Epson.

Would love to hear from someone who has had a Canon 1000 and then bought an Epson and what they truly thought about it.
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Eric Brody

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Re: buying epson or Canon Printer
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2021, 02:33:17 pm »

As you dive into the internet you will find partisans on both sides, like Ford-Chevy, Nikon-Canon, etc. There are Epson haters and lovers, same for Canon and HP. You need to decide what's important to you and go with the feature set that makes the most sense. If you're fortunate enough to have a local store that has both, bring some paper and make a test print of an image you know well on each and ask yourself which you find superior. (or if you can even tell the difference)

I've been using an Epson 3880 for eight years and hope every day that it keeps on working. The quality of my prints, color and monochrome, glossy and matte is quite excellent and I've done comparisons with test prints on other machines. I've used neither of the printers on your short list but know folks with both and both will make excellent prints. Neither will fully run the QTR RIP that I find quite wonderful for my black and white work. I suspect were you to flip a coin, you'd do just fine. The fact that the Canon has been around for a while is a strength, not a weakness. I suspect the vacuum function matters more with larger printers than with 17" ones.

Best of luck to you in your quest, let us know what you decide and how it works.
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mearussi

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Re: buying epson or Canon Printer
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2021, 02:39:41 pm »

There's a pro shop near where I live with prints on display from both printers and you'd be hard put to tell the difference in image quality alone.
Just realize if you're now printing with either Canon or Epson papers (and you still have a lot in stock) there are no canned icc profiles available to use Epson paper on Canon printers and visa versa.
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Giljackson

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Re: buying epson or Canon Printer
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2021, 03:49:54 pm »

I have the same dilemma.  17 inch Cannon or Epson. Canon imagePROGRAF PRO-1000 17" Professional Photographic Inkjet Printer and the Epson SureColor P900 17" Photo Printer. For high contrast, quality B&W is either one preferred?  Or should I go bigger like Epson 7570? or Cannon Pro 2000?
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PatCastaldo

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Re: buying epson or Canon Printer
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2021, 05:17:48 pm »

I'd echo what others say about quality ó they're both good, and it's very much a Nikon v. Canon situation in a lot of regards.

I think a big factor for me is that the Epson's can do 11x14 full-bleed and the Canon's can't. We do a lot of 11x14 so that matters to us. Probably doesn't to most folks.
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Dromano

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Re: buying epson or Canon Printer
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2021, 08:47:45 am »

I'll chime in as a user of the Epson p900. I had the same choice to make a while ago. I guess my reasons for the Epson were that I wanted to use roll paper, and that I'd heard so much about the amount ink the Canon uses. Also, I had read that the Canon heads are replaceable but more likely to need replacing. Like you, we all do our "research" in these forums and it can be tough to tell what is true, normal, or just a rant. Because you can get a bad unit from any mfg. In fact, mine was replaced under warranty already. If you need customer support, it could be great or terrible. I've had both experiences and found that it matters who you get on the phone and that a little persistence pays off. That said, I'll probably purchase an additional year of warranty coverage.
I certainly won't bash Canon, they make good products. I've had a Pixma 8120 desktop scanner/printer for 10 years and it works as flawlessly now as it did when I bought it.
One possible advantage to the Canon is the vacuum system. In my Epson, sometimes the head will brush against the paper at the start and/or end of the print. This is because the paper lifts some when it is not supported by both sets of feed rollers. You can raise the head a little or you can add about an inch and a half of unprinted paper  to accommodate the scuffs so they don't land in the image area. This is more painful to do with sheet paper, but no issue with roll paper that the Epson does. Anyway, even with sheets, I cannot say that the number of times this has happened has made me question my purchase. With the Canon not supporting roll paper, the vacuum feature is maybe more necessary.
My main goal for print quality was to get the best b&w on Baryta style papers, and I tell you as a long time wet darkroom printer, the quality I get from the Epson is nothing short of spectacular. The ABW mode works great, but I make custom profiles good enough to not need it, my b&w comes out perfect.
Build quality is... eh, fine. These are for casual users that are gentle with their equipment. Not commercial use. You can tell lots of cost engineering went into to the design. But, everything consumers buy these days is disposable.
Ink cost.. fine. I don't care too much about that, paper is the main expense.
Paper feed has been fine for me. This tends to be a hot button issue for people and experiences vary. Mine works well, no complaints.
Clogging seems to be a thing of the past. I go a few weeks maybe and never worry about it. If I were going months, then I probably would not buy a printer anyway.
Cleaning cycles that waste ink... Seems like hardly ever, which is not something reported about the Canon.
Gamut... you can do your research but I've never seen a study that showed a significant and usable difference to me. It's always less than your monitor anyway.
Dmax... I print at 1440x1440 with black enhance on, and get a maximum density of about 2.5. Wished I had that in the darkroom! Going to 5760 dpi can get the dmax to 2.7, but it's not worth the extended printing times or the heavy corrections needed to fix the crushed blacks.
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Dnx

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Re: buying epson or Canon Printer
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2021, 09:13:05 am »

I am looking to buy a new printer and looking for advice on what is perferable.  I am looking at the Canon imagePROGRAF PRO-1000 17" Professional Photographic Inkjet Printer and the Epson SureColor P900 17" Photo Printer.  I have owned Epson before.  I don't print tons of photos but when I do print larger than 11-14 so the 17" is my go to.  any advice would be appreciated.  I use Windows and use photoshop and lightoom.  thank you in advance

Hey Dromano, I have the Canon Pro-1000 and it's a lovely printer. If you're going to have spells where you don't print much, ensure you have something like QImage running to keep the printer printing on a cycle, or you will find this printer will empty your ink carts and fill your maintenance tank without printing a thing. This may be how Canon have a great reputation for not suffering blocked heads. I had a spell away from the studio and found this to be the case. Don't even think leaving it off while not printing, then switching it on will help. Even if you choose to get the Epson, and I do like Epson also - I find the colours are more accurate on my P9500, but they don't have the gloss optimiser, having Qimage is good for keeping the nozzles clear with a quick test pattern every couple of days. I would say that while I was away from the studio for a while, no blocked nozzles on the P9500.

Since my P9500 had a moment yesterday and threw a 001128 error for no apparent reason, the Canon is my only colour printer for now - that's going to be another post hoping someone can maybe help on that one.
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Dromano

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Re: buying epson or Canon Printer
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2021, 09:19:59 am »

Hey Dromano, I have the Canon Pro-1000 and it's a lovely printer. If you're going to have spells where you don't print much, ensure you have something like QImage running to keep the printer printing on a cycle, or you will find this printer will empty your ink carts and fill your maintenance tank without printing a thing. This may be how Canon have a great reputation for not suffering blocked heads. I had a spell away from the studio and found this to be the case. Don't even think leaving it off while not printing, then switching it on will help. Even if you choose to get the Epson, and I do like Epson also - I find the colours are more accurate on my P9500, but they don't have the gloss optimiser, having Qimage is good for keeping the nozzles clear with a quick test pattern every couple of days. I would say that while I was away from the studio for a while, no blocked nozzles on the P9500.

Since my P9500 had a moment yesterday and threw a 001128 error for no apparent reason, the Canon is my only colour printer for now - that's going to be another post hoping someone can maybe help on that one.
That's actually the reason why I bought QImage, but have found that I don't need it. QImage has been great for other reasons, and someday I might use the scheduled nozzle pattern
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aaronchan

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Re: buying epson or Canon Printer
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2021, 01:32:58 pm »

The Epson does make a better print with some images. But I can tell you lots of pro labs are moving to Canons because of the high cost of the head replacement.

aaron

Dan Wells

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Re: buying epson or Canon Printer
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2021, 04:11:38 pm »

I've got the P900 in for review now, and I've used a Canon Pro-2000 for years (roll-fed 24" big brother of the P1000, same inks and heads).

1.) The P900 is a very friendly printer to set up, and is much more compact than the Pro-1000 (remember that I've seen a lot of Pro-1000s, but my actual user experience is with the Pro-2000). The P900 is by far the smallest/lightest 17" printer on the market (especially with the trays folded in).

2.) Print quality on both is excellent, and actually quite similar. Epson's violet ink serves the same purpose as Canon's blue, and the P900 doesn't have Epson's extra orange and green inks that give Epson's larger models a boost on that side of the gamut. Epson uses fewer inks, but gets a bit more gamut per ink.

3.) Both are very well supported by third party paper manufacturers. Canon has the advantage that it is profile-compatible with the Pro-2000/4000/6000 line.

4.) Neither is really a roll-fed printer (for roll fed 17", you need to go to Epson's P5000, which is as old as the Pro-1000). The P900 does have that roll accessory, but there's no cutter with it.

5.) Canon uses larger cartridges (80 ml as opposed to 50), but the price per ml of ink is very, very close...

6.) Epson's ink is probably the more archival of the two.

7.) The user-changeable head on the Pro-1000 really isn't a feature (it is on the larger printers, especially the Pro-4100 and Pro-6100, where the machine is much more expensive, but the head is the same price), because the head costs 2/3 as much as the printer (and more than the printer when you subtract the value of the ink that comes with a printer). Both of these machines last the life of one head.

8.)Epson offers a flat paper path - you can feed anything through a P900. I don't think the Pro-1000 does (I know the Pro-2000 doesn't). From looking at reviews, the Canon's manual feed slot is NOT fully flat. It'll take thicker media, but NOT rigid media.

9.) Canon has a vacuum feed system that may help on some thicker, curlier media. I haven't had any problem on the P900, but it doesn't have a vacuum feed - this is most important on very long prints (oddly, otherwise easier on the Epson with the roll unit). To get a vacuum feed on an Epson, you need to go up to a P5000.

10.) The Canon uses exactly the same ink and heads as the bigger PRO printers, making a Pro-1000 a valid proof printer for big prints on anything up to and including a Pro-6100. The P900 uses a nearly unique inkset, shared only with the smaller P700.

11.) The Canon includes a Chroma Optimizer "ink". I haven't seen any bronzing issues on modestly glossy papers without it on the P900, but it WILL bronze on super-glossy RC paper. I wouldn't recommend super-glossy RC papers on either of these printers, but the Canon should handle them better if you insist.



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digitaldog

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Re: buying epson or Canon Printer
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2021, 04:41:19 pm »

Also consider if you'll be printing B&W (toned or not) and how well the various companies software for this works; Advanced B&W on Epson uses less inks, the prints are more 'archival' than using all inks. Not at all difficult using the software and black box conversions to get dead nuts neutrals without any metameric failure issues. No idea if Canon has a similar mode or solution.
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Frodo

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Re: buying epson or Canon Printer
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2021, 04:37:33 am »

Not mentioned in this thread is the issue of reliability.
My first P906 (P900) was eventually replaced a couple of months after I bought it for a number of problems, including front feed issues and pizza wheel scratches on a range of papers. Print quality in deep blacks was also unsatisfactory.
These issues did not arise in the replacement printer, but within a month the front feed tray would not retract completely and stopped the lower cover from closing.  The tech found that it had jumped off a gear, but while he was fixing it, he broke the nylon strap that prevents the top cover opening too far.  The tech noted that the P900 is not as well built as the P800/P600.
Two friends also bought a P900 at the same time.  Once had a rear feed problem fixed by a tech under warranty.  The other friend had persistent issues with pizza wheels scratching her prints and replaced the P900 with a 4900 (?).
I'm not bashing Epson.  The company has stood by me.  I had a great problem-free run from my P600.  But the P900 does not seem to be built to the same standard. The print quality is excellent and I particularly like ABW.  Ink use is modest. And as noted by Dan, it has a very small footprint.
The P900 is a printer I want to love. Hopefully no more teething problems.
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Remko

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Re: buying epson or Canon Printer
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2021, 10:21:03 am »

I've got the P900 in for review now, and I've used a Canon Pro-2000 for years (roll-fed 24" big brother of the P1000, same inks and heads).

3.) Both are very well supported by third party paper manufacturers. Canon has the advantage that it is profile-compatible with the Pro-2000/4000/6000 line.


Thank you for your summary, Dan!

One remark: if you mean with "profile-compatible" that e.g. a profile made for a Pro-1000 can be used on its bigger brothers, than that seems not to be the case. I remember having read that Canon has stated that, due to the fact that a Pro-2000/2100 lays the ink down in a different way compared to the  the Pro-1000. The reason for that was to increase the speed of printing.

Cheers,
Remko
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deanwork

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Re: buying epson or Canon Printer
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2021, 10:25:44 am »

That is very sad to hear.

I just turned on my Epson 3880 yesterday which I bought used about 5 years ago . I rarely use it these days, or even turn it on for months at a time. First nozzle check was perfect. I did a few 13x19 prints, which were perfect. I use it for black and white alternative ink blends these days. . The guy who I bought it from back then rarely used it before me. It almost never needs a head cleaning or anything else. Even with the color inks the color output and  bw with QTR software is very good and easy for anyone. Iím not the first one to say this, why did the quit making the best functioning and longest lasting machine they ever designed? Couldnít they have just tweaked it with improved inks? Guess thatís not the way the tech industry works.

One of my friends has the P800 and it has held up in a similar way so far, if it clogged at all after months of not using, it clears in one cycle. Epson has greatly improved the Advanced Black and White with that series and the prints are really fine , and dead neutral as Andrew said is easy to achieve. Iíve never experienced or seen that on any Canon. I was very surprised . Will the p800s last as long as the 3800/3880, I seriously doubt it, and I donít think they want them to.

Why do these companies think they need to reinvent the wheel of the hardware every time they change the inkset? They need to give their engineers something to do? New does not always mean improved.





Not mentioned in this thread is the issue of reliability.
My first P906 (P900) was eventually replaced a couple of months after I bought it for a number of problems, including front feed issues and pizza wheel scratches on a range of papers. Print quality in deep blacks was also unsatisfactory.
These issues did not arise in the replacement printer, but within a month the front feed tray would not retract completely and stopped the lower cover from closing.  The tech found that it had jumped off a gear, but while he was fixing it, he broke the nylon strap that prevents the top cover opening too far.  The tech noted that the P900 is not as well built as the P800/P600.
Two friends also bought a P900 at the same time.  Once had a rear feed problem fixed by a tech under warranty.  The other friend had persistent issues with pizza wheels scratching her prints and replaced the P900 with a 4900 (?).
I'm not bashing Epson.  The company has stood by me.  I had a great problem-free run from my P600.  But the P900 does not seem to be built to the same standard. The print quality is excellent and I particularly like ABW.  Ink use is modest. And as noted by Dan, it has a very small footprint.
The P900 is a printer I want to love. Hopefully no more teething problems.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2021, 10:30:16 am by deanwork »
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Dan Wells

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Re: buying epson or Canon Printer
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2021, 11:36:30 am »

I don't have a Pro-1000, but I've used profiles marked "Canon Pro 1000/2000/4000/6000" on my Pro-2000 with good results (of course that could be made for the big machines and someone threw in the 1000 as an afterthought). Not only are the inks verifiably the same (although in smaller cartridges), the head is the exact same part number. The speed of head travel probably IS different, and that could make a minor difference. Most third-party paper manufacturers separate the 1000 when profiling, but at least some don't.
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dgberg

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Re: buying epson or Canon Printer
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2021, 07:21:15 am »

That is very sad to hear.

I just turned on my Epson 3880 yesterday which I bought used about 5 years ago . I rarely use it these days, or even turn it on for months at a time. First nozzle check was perfect. I did a few 13x19 prints, which were perfect. I use it for black and white alternative ink blends these days. . The guy who I bought it from back then rarely used it before me. It almost never needs a head cleaning or anything else. Even with the color inks the color output and  bw with QTR software is very good and easy for anyone. Iím not the first one to say this, why did the quit making the best functioning and longest lasting machine they ever designed? Couldnít they have just tweaked it with improved inks? Guess thatís not the way the tech industry works.

One of my friends has the P800 and it has held up in a similar way so far, if it clogged at all after months of not using, it clears in one cycle. Epson has greatly improved the Advanced Black and White with that series and the prints are really fine , and dead neutral as Andrew said is easy to achieve. Iíve never experienced or seen that on any Canon. I was very surprised . Will the p800s last as long as the 3800/3880, I seriously doubt it, and I donít think they want them to.

Why do these companies think they need to reinvent the wheel of the hardware every time they change the inkset? They need to give their engineers something to do? New does not always mean improved.

I have a P800 and 3880 sitting here and wish I had more work for them. They both get used once or twice a month for proofing. They just run and run with no issues. I think one of the biggest reasons for minimal problems is that we never switch ink with either one.
When I had my 3800 we switched blacks all the time and in less than 5 years we had the black ink leak issue which killed that printer. Knock on wood we have had the 3880 8 years and the P800 6. May be something to that?

Asael

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Re: buying epson or Canon Printer
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2021, 09:32:43 pm »

While hoping / waiting for Canon to releases a new large format to replace my dying 8300, I decided to get 2 smaller printers.
I got the Canon Pro 200 -- which I found perfect for what it is, and an Epson P900.
By comparison to the Canon the Epson build quality was shockingly low, I thought the thin plastic Epson would break just from taking the tape wrapping off.
The Epson ink cartridges that came with the printer were almost compositely consumed from the initialization process. 
But the real problem was that the front feed (which is the main reason I got this printer) was defective and did not work, so back it went.
I will try a second P900, but I am not impressed.
Asael


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dgberg

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Re: buying epson or Canon Printer
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2021, 07:54:07 am »

I have a P800 and 3880 sitting here and wish I had more work for them. They both get used once or twice a month for proofing. They just run and run with no issues. I think one of the biggest reasons for minimal problems is that we never switch ink with either one.
When I had my 3800 we switched blacks all the time and in less than 5 years we had the black ink leak issue which killed that printer. Knock on wood we have had the 3880 8 years and the P800 6. May be something to that?

You want build pay just $500 more for the Epson P5000. Ink is .84 per ml for the P900 and for the P5000 it is .45 or very close to half.
If you print a lot  you will make your $500 back in no time just in ink savings.
Thing is built like a tank. For less then $2000 probably one of the best buys going.

mearussi

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Re: buying epson or Canon Printer
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2021, 10:02:21 am »

You want build pay just $500 more for the Epson P5000. Ink is .84 per ml for the P900 and for the P5000 it is .45 or very close to half.
If you print a lot  you will make your $500 back in no time just in ink savings.
Thing is built like a tank. For less then $2000 probably one of the best buys going.
Having owned the 4800 I totally agree with you and often wonder why others would buy the obviously inferior P800/900 instead. It's only limitation is its inability to handle small paper sizes like 4x6, 5x7, etc.
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