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Author Topic: LR 10 panorama much improved but still buggy...  (Read 2239 times)

dreed

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LR 10 panorama much improved but still buggy...
« on: March 22, 2021, 06:38:25 am »

Compared to earlier releases of LR that I'd tried, the LR panorama merge is a much better proposition.

In some instances I now prefer it to PTgui because it gets colours better.

However...

All too often I see "tears" or "seams" in LR panorama merge output that PTgui does not have. Some examples of an obvious merge tear attached where it is failing to align the horizon and map the merge correctly.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 06:41:36 am by dreed »
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Paul2660

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Re: LR 10 panorama much improved but still buggy...
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2021, 02:52:48 pm »

Yes happens a quite often with images that have a subject like yours. Tearing is a good name for it.

Ptgui usually won’t get these like you said but I still often prefer LR as it has the ability to warp the edges without detail loss. If original would do that I would stay with it.

What I often do in situations like yours is to copy a part of one of the original image sand paste it on to the tear then warp that selection to meet the pano as odds are they won’t align. The use curves or other adjustments to blend the exposure to the pano as again odds are they won’t be the same.


Paul C
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Paul Caldwell
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kers

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Re: LR 10 panorama much improved but still buggy...
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2021, 04:50:35 pm »

With a subject that changes its shape between shots you never have a perfect stitch, no matter what program you use.
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Pieter Kers
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dreed

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Re: LR 10 panorama much improved but still buggy...
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2021, 10:39:49 am »

With a subject that changes its shape between shots you never have a perfect stitch, no matter what program you use.

If other programs can get the stitching right for obvious features like this, why can't LR?
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headmj

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Re: LR 10 panorama much improved but still buggy...
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2021, 11:10:42 am »

If other programs can get the stitching right for obvious features like this, why can't LR?

LR can.  I have made panoramas of Lake Erie without difficulty.  When issues have arisen I have sometimes had success just rerunning the pano. I have no idea but rerunning has fixed most of the problems I encountered.  The other major problem is inadequate overlap.  Panos that have failed for me have less than 10% overlap.

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Rand47

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Re: LR 10 panorama much improved but still buggy...
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2021, 04:57:41 pm »

I have found that with sufficient overlap of frames I've eliminated 99% of this issue - to the point that I don't think much about it anymore.

Rand
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mcbroomf

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Re: LR 10 panorama much improved but still buggy...
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2021, 04:14:59 pm »

If other programs can get the stitching right for obvious features like this, why can't LR?

How did PTGUI deal with the section you showed, or did it find a different area to merge that was problem free?
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mshea

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Re: LR 10 panorama much improved but still buggy...
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2021, 09:59:36 am »

I've had just that sort of problem with horizons in seascapes, even with close to 50% overlaps. It seems to be more of an issue with very large panos, let's say 10 farms or so. The only thing that helps—not always though—is tripod mounting.
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dreed

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Re: LR 10 panorama much improved but still buggy...
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2021, 02:48:46 pm »

I've had just that sort of problem with horizons in seascapes, even with close to 50% overlaps. It seems to be more of an issue with very large panos, let's say 10 farms or so. The only thing that helps—not always though—is tripod mounting.

This is exactly my experience but I see it with smaller pano's of 2 or 3 frames.

Good to know that I'm not alone :)
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dreed

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Re: LR 10 panorama much improved but still buggy...
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2021, 02:48:21 pm »

The latest Lightroom 10.3 does not improve on this situation at all.

Using the latest Affinity Photo (1.94 beta) is more interesting. Sometimes AP fails where LR does not, sometimes it gets the colour blending wrong rather than a tear, sometimes both fail but there are also a good number of times when Affinity Photo gets it right when LR does not.

AP does not provide any option to do post processing on the stitched image when doing the stitch whereas LR has an option to "apply settings" (i.e make the picture look pretty if you've turned down saturation, etc, in camera.)

If you've had trouble with LR stitching panoramas, give the latest Affinity Photo a spin.
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dpirazzi

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Re: LR 10 panorama much improved but still buggy...
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2021, 07:55:35 pm »

I'm not doing panos often latelty, but I can't remember the last time LR failed for me as in your photo.

Water can be tricky, in your example image it looks like LR aligned streaking in the water below the horizon, instead of the horizon itself.

Just thinking out loud (not looking for answers):

Stitching RAW or jpeg? Maybe lens corrections baked into jpeg files are messing with stitching?

What lens(es) are you using? Wide angle lenses can be more difficult to warp before stitching. Does this happen with multiple lenses or just one lens? Does it fail with OEM lenses or more with third party lenses? Different lenses suffer different types and amounts of distortion.

If a zoom, is it possible the focal length was bumped between shots?

If handheld, how good is the initial alignment of the images?

Definition of overlap - 100% to me means edge of previous frame placed in center of new frame (every part of the image is covered by at least two shots except the first and last). Some say it is overkill but it also means less image is wasted when cropping.
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dreed

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Re: LR 10 panorama much improved but still buggy...
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2021, 06:31:03 pm »

Water can be tricky, in your example image it looks like LR aligned streaking in the water below the horizon, instead of the horizon itself.

Very. It seems that water is the achilles heel of panorama stitching.

Quote
Stitching RAW or jpeg? Maybe lens corrections baked into jpeg files are messing with stitching?

All raw. The shots being merged are from 3 cameras, see: https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=128871.0

On the one hand, it should be easy - cameras aren't moving, share the same horizontal plane - but on the other, there's the chance for small differences in time between each shutter being activated and in which case, I wouldn't expect to see merge issues with the horizon, but merge issues at the beach. In some shots, that does happen - the horizon is right but the beach is not due to time differential - but the ones that leave me dumbstruck are those where the beach is right but the horizon has a tear.
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Rand47

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Re: LR 10 panorama much improved but still buggy...
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2021, 08:46:37 pm »

Water ripples, waves, white “streaming” etc., that isn’t in the same place in each part of an overlapped frame - and therefore doesn’t stitch well - can hardly be blamed on the stitching software.  Layer blending in  PS for those parts of the image would be better to “patch” the bad areas.

In general, water notwithstanding, I’d say that making sure the pan head is dead level, and that camera/lens position has been adjusted to eliminate parallax, is important for any stitching software in order to get a truly seamless stitch.

I’ve had zero problems using LrC’s stitch feature.

This is seven vertical frames, stitched in LrC, 30mm lens (24mm FF equivalent), Arca C1 head, RRS Nodal Slide:



Rand
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dreed

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Re: LR 10 panorama much improved but still buggy...
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2021, 06:08:18 am »

Water ripples, waves, white “streaming” etc., that isn’t in the same place in each part of an overlapped frame - and therefore doesn’t stitch well - can hardly be blamed on the stitching software.  Layer blending in  PS for those parts of the image would be better to “patch” the bad areas.

Using a wired remote control connected up to several cameras, I can get panoramic capture from 2+ cameras at more or less the same instant in time (i.e the same wave features are present in each frame.)

Where merging fails is at the horizon, which for all intents and purposes is a straight flat boundary between two shades of blue.
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dreed

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Re: LR 11 panorama merge is worse than LR10 ...
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2021, 07:11:07 am »

LR 11 does not fix this bug/problem. An example of LR's brilliance is attached (badstitch is raw merge output) where the sea merges with the land. LR11 goes one up on LR10 where the preview of a panorama merge looks ok (badstitch2) but the actual render of raw images (badstitch) ends up looking a total mess. At least with LR10 the preview matched the end result.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2021, 09:46:16 am by dreed »
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dreed

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Re: LR 10 panorama much improved but still buggy...
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2021, 09:48:54 am »

Here's 3 source files... reduced down to 1920x1200 fit for posting purposes... 22mm setting on Canon M6.
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dreed

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Re: LR 10 panorama much improved but still buggy...
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2021, 09:53:52 am »

Rendered panoramas. First is from PTgui, second is from LR.

What's interesting to note is that PTgui curves the horizon while LR flattens it. Does this contribute to the problem with LR?

Unfortunately PTgui doesn't get the colouring right.

It doesn't matter if cylindrical, spherical or perspective are used from LR, all result in a tear.
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kers

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Re: LR 10 panorama much improved but still buggy...
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2021, 11:40:28 am »

Rendered panoramas. First is from PTgui, second is from LR.

What's interesting to note is that PTgui curves the horizon while LR flattens it. Does this contribute to the problem with LR?

Unfortunately PTgui doesn't get the colouring right.

It doesn't matter if cylindrical, spherical or perspective are used from LR, all result in a tear.

Did you use the same manual exposure on the three images?
If so it has to do with lens vignetting…
Curved horizon is a question of adjusting pitch probably
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Pieter Kers
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mcbroomf

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Re: LR 10 panorama much improved but still buggy...
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2021, 05:12:31 pm »

I took a look at them in LR and it would not find the right image for a pano.  I think the main issue is that the overlap between them is not enough.
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kers

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Re: LR 10 panorama much improved but still buggy...
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2021, 06:04:39 pm »

I took a look at them in LR and it would not find the right image for a pano.  I think the main issue is that the overlap between them is not enough.
+1
  Vignetting is huge , overlap too small, colours not equal-
Bad start
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Pieter Kers
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