Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine

[Alan Klein]

Complete hogwash by whoever "someone" might be. "Someone" is clueless.

Conspiratorial baloney with cheese. The definition is the same as it has always been. The language was changed to more clearly and accurately reflect what vaccines have always been and done.

The vaccine was advertised to protect from getting Covid.  It was only months after people were getting it that "breakthrough" infections were reported.  Only then was it reported that, yes, the vaccine doesn't prevent getting it. The vaccine only lessens the effect.  Otherwise, why did they call it a "breakthrough".  That word means that the infection occurred despite the vaccine.  So who was not being upfront to us?  The CDC, FDA, etc??

[TechTalk]

So who was not being upfront to us?  The CDC, FDA, etc??

You?

[TechTalk]

Fauci said early on that masks for the general public were not necessary.  It doesn't matter if his secret and concerned rationale were to protect the small supply left for medical workers.  He lied about it even if his false claim had a noble intent.  His credibility from that point on became doubted by many.  It seemed he was a game player, a politician.

There has certainly been a concerted effort to reduce "his credibility among the general public" by Trump acolytes who greatly resented interviews in which Dr. Fauci diplomatically corrected some of the inconsistent statements and incorrect assertions made by Trump regarding COVID. Of course, efforts to reduce "his credibility among the general public" have also come from the anti-mask and anti-vaccination crowd, largely made up of the previously mentioned group.

[Alan Klein]

Two short paragraphs is verbosity?

If it was too long for you to read, here's the simple version: Vaccines help to create herd immunity, which helps to reduce the R-naught factor to below 1, which is how you stop a pandemic. This has been understood since forever.

If what you're worried about is that vaccinated people, after having ingested a viral load, could maybe pass it onto others before their immune systems kill the little buggers off, I suppose that could be the case. So what? That's why isolation and hygiene continue to be advised even after being vaccinated. It was never going to be anything other than a multi-tiered solution, this is also nothing new and has been addressed many times here and elsewhere. I don't understand why this needs to be explained over and over again.

Scientists and the press made it seem that the vaccine would prevent you from getting the disease.  Only after vaccinated people started to get Covid, although mildly or with no symptoms at all, did they acknowledge that vaccines don't prevent catching the virus.  They only reduce the effect.  So again, scientists were not upfront with the public, sowing doubt for many.

[TechTalk]

You avoided addressing Slobodan's concern you and didn't address his point.

I did to my satisfaction. How many hours are in a day in your world?

[TechTalk]

Scientists and the press made it seem that the vaccine would prevent you from getting the disease.  Only after vaccinated people started to get Covid, although mildly or with no symptoms at all, did they acknowledge that vaccines don't prevent catching the virus.  They only reduce the effect.  So again, scientists were not upfront with the public, sowing doubt for many.

Baloney - with cheese - on stale bread.

[Alan Klein]

You?

A non-response to a point you can't argue against.

[Alan Klein]

Baloney - with cheese - on stale bread.

Another non-response and silly putdowns. 

[TechTalk]

Another non-response and silly putdowns.

It expressed my reaction perfectly.

[TechTalk]

You?

A non-response to a point you can't argue against.

I'll do it over with greater clarity.

So who was not being upfront to [with] us?  The CDC, FDA, etc??

You.

[PeterAit]

The vaccine was advertised to protect from getting Covid.  It was only months after people were getting it that "breakthrough" infections were reported.  Only then was it reported that, yes, the vaccine doesn't prevent getting it. The vaccine only lessens the effect.  Otherwise, why did they call it a "breakthrough".  That word means that the infection occurred despite the vaccine.  So who was not being upfront to us?  The CDC, FDA, etc??

The vaccine does prevent covid in a large majority of people. This means it prevents any infection at all. Some people get breakthru infections and most of those have no symptoms but can still spread the virus, although they are less likely to do so. If they have symptoms they are milder and they are much less likely than the unvaxxed to need hospitalization, the ICU, or the undertaker.

I really wish that people like you would not expect scientists to have all the correct answers right off the bat. And then when new information comes out accuse them  of hiding facts. It's the very nature of science to change its "mind" as more information becomes available.

[PeterAit]

You (TechTalk) have not answered this simple question? In other words, explain please to me what an 80% protection means.

It means what you think, 80% of people are protected. There's no way an individual can be "80% protected," it makes no sense.

[Alan Klein]

Things are worse in Germany.

Gas station clerk murdered for asking a customer to wear a mask
 
Berlin — Senior politicians in Germany expressed shock over the weekend killing of a young gas station clerk who asked a customer to wear a face mask, and they warned Tuesday against the radicalization of people who oppose the country's coronavirus pandemic restrictions. A 49-year-old German man was arrested in the fatal Saturday shooting of the clerk in the western town of Idar-Oberstein. The suspect is being held on suspicion of murder.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-mask-rule-germany-gas-station-clerk-murdered/

[Alan Klein]

The vaccine does prevent covid in a large majority of people. This means it prevents any infection at all. Some people get breakthru infections and most of those have no symptoms but can still spread the virus, although they are less likely to do so. If they have symptoms they are milder and they are much less likely than the unvaxxed to need hospitalization, the ICU, or the undertaker.

I really wish that people like you would not expect scientists to have all the correct answers right off the bat. And then when new information comes out accuse them  of hiding facts. It's the very nature of science to change its "mind" as more information becomes available.

But it was sold as preventing getting Covid.  Now the scientists are saying, well no, all or most vaccines just protect from getting the disease too severely.  Which is it?  Why didn't they say that in the beginning?

[Alan Klein]

It means what you think, 80% of people are protected. There's no way an individual can be "80% protected," it makes no sense.

Protected against what?  Getting it at all?  Or getting it as a mild case?  Or some combination of both? 

[TechTalk]

The vaccine does prevent covid in a large majority of people. This means it prevents any infection at all. Some people get breakthru infections and most of those have no symptoms but can still spread the virus, although they are less likely to do so. If they have symptoms they are milder and they are much less likely than the unvaxxed to need hospitalization, the ICU, or the undertaker.

This attempt at creating a rabbit hole is just a frivolous distraction. Months ago, as the vaccines were completing final clinical trials and reporting results and when they first were given emergency use authorization, this was all discussed in great detail on this forum. What efficacy meant; what effectiveness meant; protection against infection vs protection against severe disease—it was all endlessly discussed. None of these current "CDC, FDA, etc??" accusations comport with any reality—it's pure fantasy. It is in no way deserving of serious time or response.

[chez]

Scientists and the press made it seem that the vaccine would prevent you from getting the disease.  Only after vaccinated people started to get Covid, although mildly or with no symptoms at all, did they acknowledge that vaccines don't prevent catching the virus.  They only reduce the effect.  So again, scientists were not upfront with the public, sowing doubt for many.

Please provide link where it states the vaccines will be 100% effective preventing you from getting Covid. I've always seen efficiency numbers quoted with the vaccine effectiveness.

[chez]

But it was sold as preventing getting Covid.  Now the scientists are saying, well no, all or most vaccines just protect from getting the disease too severely.  Which is it?  Why didn't they say that in the beginning?

again, please provide a link rather than just rattling things off.

[Robert Roaldi]

But it was sold as preventing getting Covid.  Now the scientists are saying, well no, all or most vaccines just protect from getting the disease too severely.  Which is it?  Why didn't they say that in the beginning?

What do you mean by "getting Covid"? Do you mean "exposed to a viral load" or do you mean "get sick because of Covid?

Vaccinated people might be exposed to a viral load, why wouldn't they? A vaccine is not a force field. It arms the body to fight off invading pathogens. That they have been successful around the globe is by now beyond question. Why are we discussing this AGAIN.

In some people, vaccines might not work as well as in others, nothing in biology is 100% (or 0%). This is well-trodden ground. Why are discussing this AGAIN. These issues have been discussed many times and many references, articles or podcasts, have been provided discussing many aspects.

I can only describe your recent series of posts as trolling. This is boring.

[Robert Roaldi]

Protected against what?  Getting it at all?  Or getting it as a mild case?  Or some combination of both?

Discussed many many times in many places online. Asked and answered many times over.  Why are you bringing it up AGAIN.