Printing with Canon

[David Sutton]

JPEG does support the ProPhoto RGB colour space.

I'd read somewhere sometime that Prophoto only worked in 16 bits. Really hard to find info on this. You're correct, you can use Prophoto. The only reference I can find is "JPEG has eight bit resolution and it's a bit to short to hold ProPhoto RGB. It may work or it may not."

[William Walker]

Hi again William,

This is something I've seen since I read your first post.  This is what you wrote there - "As you can see from the examples, there seems to be an ugly yellowish-brown cast on both prints".  I have to disagree with that because on my Calibrated NEC display I can easily see a definite difference between the two prints, both Colour and B&W.  The one on the left looks fine, but the one on the right does have the yellow/brown cast.  Since you didn't describe which is printed in LR or PS I cannot add to what might perhaps be the cause of the cast on the right side print.  But from your questioning I would think the one on the left was printed in LR and the right print in PS.  If not, I have simply misread your post somehow.

Hi Gary, Richard has it correct...the "correct" prints on the left were printed via the Canon Print Plug-in. The "off-colour" prints were printed - one through LR, and the other through PS - using the PS print dialogue - which had the same effect as the LR print.

I take the points made about my "LR JPEG Workaround" and will avoid that route as much as possible.
I can still get 16-bit tiffs or PSD's into the Canon Print Plugin from LR via "Edit In Photoshop" for my "serious" work.

If I start picking up problems there, then I will have a look at something like EFI - which I did not know about...thanks for that Richard!

The bottom line to this whole question - for me - is that there still seems to be the same problem that caused me to stop printing with Lightroom in the first place!

Thank you to all for taking the time and interest. I appreciate it!

[Garnick]

Hi Gary, Richard has it correct...the "correct" prints on the left were printed via the Canon Print Plug-in. The "off-colour" prints were printed - one through LR, and the other through PS - using the PS print dialogue - which had the same effect as the LR print.

I take the points made about my "LR JPEG Workaround" and will avoid that route as much as possible.
I can still get 16-bit tiffs or PSD's into the Canon Print Plugin from LR via "Edit In Photoshop" for my "serious" work.

If I start picking up problems there, then I will have a look at something like EFI - which I did not know about...thanks for that Richard!

The bottom line to this whole question - for me - is that there still seems to be the same problem that caused me to stop printing with Lightroom in the first place!

Thank you to all for taking the time and interest. I appreciate it!

HMMMM••• That's what I get by trying to make my point in a hurry.  When I read your last reply I also agreed with Richard and I was about to make that clear until I read my last reply and to my surprise I had them totally backward, which is not what I had meant at all.  But actually my point was that I could definitely see the difference between the two prints, where as you had written that both where showing the yellow/brown cast.  This was written and reviewed with more time than I had previously, so I believe I have it right this time.  I think we're all in the same boat here with no particular fix yet for this issue unfortunately.     

[Simon J.A. Simpson]

I'd read somewhere sometime that Prophoto only worked in 16 bits. Really hard to find info on this. You're correct, you can use Prophoto. The only reference I can find is "JPEG has eight bit resolution and it's a bit to short to hold ProPhoto RGB. It may work or it may not."

If you want to edit in the ProPhoto RGB colour space it is advisable to have the image in 16 bits to avoid posterisation, which you can get when editing in 8 bits.  This is because ProPhoto RGB is a much larger colour space compared to Adobe RGB or sRGB.  I would like to quote you Jeff Schewe on this but I no longer have his excellent Photoshop book from many years, and Photoshop versions, ago.

JPEG is agnostic about ProPhoto RGB.  Give it a try.

[Simon J.A. Simpson]

William.  I wonder whether sending your image to the printer form LR and/or PS in 16 bit might be the cause of your issue.  Just a thought.  You could try 8 bit and see what happens.  This is selected in the printer dialogue.  The original image can remain in 16 bit.

I have not found that sending 16 bit data to the printer makes any visible difference in the final print to my eye.

[William Walker]

William.  I wonder whether sending your image to the printer form LR and/or PS in 16 bit might be the cause of your issue.  Just a thought.  You could try 8 bit and see what happens.  This is selected in the printer dialogue.  The original image can remain in 16 bit.

I have not found that sending 16 bit data to the printer makes any visible difference in the final print to my eye.

Thanks Simon, I'l give it a bash tomorrow morning and let you know.

[Richard.Wills]

For the majority of images, a jpeg makes a valid delivery vehicle, provided that you are going to do no further image adjustments - this includes files in the ProPhoto colour space. (here I am prepared to be be told I'm wrong, if this includes the conversion in the print software, but I don't recall seeing prophoto 8bit jpegs getting mangled in the final stages of the print pipe). Where jpegs and othe 8bit files can caues problems is very subtle gradients - think foggy blue landscape, printed large - the limited number of shades of foggy blue can show banding, very visible to the naked eye. Normal mid to high frequency images don't suffer in this way.

All being well, I'll be back in the studio from Monday, when I'll be able to run some quick tests sending 16bit tiff/psd's out to print, as opposed to jpegs, which'll obviously be 8 bit. My feeling is that it won't change the result, when working with the test files (which I've printed hundres of times over the last decade - the pair William showed are my standard test pair - run them every time I try a new media, profile, or have moments of doubt), but time permitting, it'll be a simple test.

[mearussi]

I've tried several times to see if there's any difference between printing from a 8 bit jpeg and a 16 bit tiff and can't see any. You need the 16 bit for manipulation only. My normal work flow is to do all my PP work in 16 bit tiff, save that as the master and then make a 8 bit jpeg copy to print with because it loads into the printer much faster (because I do a lot of pano stitching I tend to work with very large files).

[William Walker]

Thanks Simon, I'l give it a bash tomorrow morning and let you know.

Well I'm blessed! It worked! (All I did was uncheck the "16 Bit Output" box.)

The LR and Canon Print Plug-in prints are now identical....!

The obvious question now is, why?

[Simon J.A. Simpson]

Well I'm blessed! It worked! (All I did was uncheck the "16 Bit Output" box.)

The LR and Canon Print Plug-in prints are now identical....!

The obvious question now is, why?

There have been many documented cases of how checking ‘Send 16 bit data’ box can result in strange printing effects.  No one knows why.  Some printers seem to be more effected than others and I am guessing that the operating system may play a part (remember the Mac OS printing without targets colour management débacle ?).