Epson Ink Cost and letting a P9570 sit

[arobinson7547]

The Epson P9570 has been $4495 for a while now. They discounted it and keep renewing the discount each month. I just brought one of these printers and was bothered buy the low amount of starter ink. So I brought a full set of 700ml Carts. I calculated the inks percentage of the Printer Cost (I know you can get smaller carts but the prices per mil, I think, is pretty much the same.

Now imagine you buy this printer run out of ink, say your head clogs from the lack of use and you need to put a set of ink and a new head in there.

It's he 'Razor and Razor Blades' thing. (Disposable Printer)

Truthfully, I am scared as hell of putting that ink (I also have the small starter carts) into that machine. I fell like it is a dream come true printer, for me. but unless you have the work to run thru that machine, well, it's NO Canon (see my comments here --- https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136028.0)

I've personally seen a guy plug in a Canon that had set for at least a year, the machine did TWO head cleanings, on its own and was ready to go. Perfect nozzle test.

You think I'll regret initializing that machine and just doing a print here and there (just enough to keep it wet, so to say)
I'll spend the initial time getting to know the machine; a bunch of profiling/testing but after that, not much of anything happening probably until next year.

Again, I've always had an IPF8300 sitting right beside me and once in a while I'd just print a nozzle test, sometimes a small image. But the machine is happy just sitting there, until I REALLY needed it.

I'm thinking; set it up, learn it, and look for a BIG job that will recoup most of the investment early (Holiday Printing). Then if it sits, at least I've gotten a chunk of the money back.

Ink, even at a high cost isn't bad, because if you are printing, you're making money and the ink is easily paying for itself. But when that PERFECTLY GOOD Printhead clogs and needs to be replaced for no reason, that's hard to swallow.

That thread on the Epson 20000 with the Stubborn clog, really got to me. ( guy almost replaced a perfectly good head (on Epson's say so) for nothing)

[deanwork]

Yea, you could have read hundreds of posts about Epson large format printers to tell you that they are not the printers to buy for occasional use ( the exception being the 3800-p800-p900 17 inch machines.) And you are correct , one terminal clog in one channel can cost you the full cost of a new head plus a big labor bill.

Having said that, there is hope that the new head design on your printer may be less prone to serious clogging than previous models. I would ask users on the Epson printer forum.

https://groups.io/g/EpsonWideFormat/topics

I have two previous model large format Epsons here for bw inks and at least once a week I run a couple of 8x10 color charts through them to keep ink moving through all the nozzles. I almost always have to do a least one cleaning cycle but that’s not wasting much ink at all. If you leave these machines sitting there for weeks at a time you are certainly asking for trouble. I do hope this new series has a longer head life. There is some talk out there that they are not delaminating like previous models were famous for.

You are correct, the Canon models can be left for months without any use at all as long as they are plugged in and turned on. They also acetate the inks automatically.

John

[arobinson7547]

I was suprised to see Wayne Fox purchased one AND MADE A YOUTUBE VIDEO. (I guess he's forgotten about this forum)

The first thing the Printer does, after it fills with ink is a "Head Cleaning" in Wayne's video he showed how the printers moves the head over for cleaning (he couldn't get it to come all the way over) and even though he didn't touch it, it immediately said "Head Cleaning" when it returned. You'd think the thing would Check FIRST.

I just get this strange feeling you could leave it on and the thing would just clean itself to death.

It's not the Printer's fault; it's Epson. The giving us the Printer and Husting folks to burn as much ink as possible.

I would feel better if they Priced the head to reflect the way they tread them. (throw away)

One thing being a Canon owner teaches you is after two head cleanings; just get a new head. It's cheap, fast and better then wasting the time and throwing away the ink.

Epson encourages Clean, Power Clean, Super Super Clean, do it again and cross your fingers and just dump the ink down the drain THAN give us money on a tech and new Head, but make sure you waste all your ink first so we can hit up for a full set and a COUPLE (now with the 9750) of Maintenance Carts.

I think those PERFECTLY good heads just get a light flush and make in onto the Secondary market (or at least something nice for the Tech to sell) But I KNOW they are still perfectly good but the market (Epson) says that are not to be cleaned/wiped off/flushed; just buy a new one $$$$

I think it's  scandalous to tread a durable and expensive item, like that as a throw away. Just to rob people.

Funny thing is just one level up, at the S series printers (Solvent), all the printers in that class are expected to get a cleaning stick and Wipe the nozzles with cleaning fluid to keep then clean and remove stuff that they know is going to attach to the head.

The printers we use should have the same thing. I know they have introduced using the Cleaning Stick (q-tip like with a sponge tip)  but I've seen no mention of Cleaning Fluid.

EPSON; "Why should we sell you a $10 bottle of cleaning fluid, when we can let you use our much more expensive ink to clean?"

It doesn't have to be like this.

[MfAlab]

P75xx/P95xx allow users to clean the head, by hands not by inks, finally.

And the new commercial latex printer SC-R5050 allow users to change the head.
https://www.epson.jp/products/largeprinter/scr5050/feature_3.htm
Looking forward to see this feature on aqueous printer just like HP and Canon.

[arobinson7547]

MfAlab,

I referenced a video by one of the members, made about their new P95xx; they could not get the head to move all the way over. (maybe he needed to be in Service Mode?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X53T8AAy-4c

Can you (or anyone) confirm they you get complete access to the bottom of the Head

That new Latex machine shows a lot of promise. However, I'll try not to pre-judge but that Optimizer, seems like the weak link (source of problems)

I did notice in the Specs that thing is a Monster - 1000lbs and uses 4600W while printing (IPF8300 = 190W). it's Max power is 6400W; I guess that's with all three Heaters going.

I'm guessing they took and learned from the S80, P20, and combined their knowledge into this machine. It's first gen but STILL a very good alternative to HP Latex or even the S80

I think I'll go and see it (you should take a look too, Wayne Fox)

[MfAlab]

MfAlab,

I referenced a video by one of the members, made about their new P95xx; they could not get the head to move all the way over. (maybe he needed to be in Service Mode?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X53T8AAy-4c

Can you (or anyone) confirm they you get complete access to the bottom of the Head

I don't own one personally, but have used a P9530 at Epson's show room and did try the head cleaning/capping cleaning feature.

Get the access simply by the front panel menu "Maintenance > Cleaning the Maintenance Parts > Wiping the Print Head". It's no need to be in Service Mode.

That new Latex machine shows a lot of promise. However, I'll try not to pre-judge but that Optimizer, seems like the weak link (source of problems)

I did notice in the Specs that thing is a Monster - 1000lbs and uses 4600W while printing (IPF8300 = 190W). it's Max power is 6400W; I guess that's with all three Heaters going.

I'm guessing they took and learned from the S80, P20, and combined their knowledge into this machine. It's first gen but STILL a very good alternative to HP Latex or even the S80

I think I'll go and see it (you should take a look too, Wayne Fox)

HP 560 uses 4000W while printing too. Ricoh Pro L5160's max power consumption is 6000W. Usually, the curing heater's temperature is around 100℃. It needs a lot of power to heat up.

Ironically, HP made latex printers in the first place and called it "eco printer", "better for the environment". But latex printers use 5 times more power comparing to solvent printers.

Back to the topic, I just saw the "replace the print head by user" feature on Epson new latex printer, and hope it will be on their aqueous printers in the future.

[langier]

My "notorious" 9900 was bought second-hand ten years ago. It was at least 2-3 years old when I purchased it and brought it home over the Sierra Nevada one winter.

I set it up and for the first few months, printed several hundred large canvas prints then headed to Greece at the end of the project to shoot for a couple of weeks. I left the printer on (advice from my Epson repair expert), and had no problems.

For the next five-six years, I would have to run a cleaning cycle and ended up with on nozzle clogged. During that time, I left the printer from four-six weeks at a time simply plugged-in and left running (standby).

I finally sprung for a service call and had some minor adjustments, a couple of parts to the ink system, a cleaning then instructions to keep it clean and keep it covered when not in use to keep the dust out. My expert's advice was if the head were to fail, the best thing to do is to replace the head if you know the history of your printer and don't chase a pig-in-the-poke second-had replacement and unless you wanted to deal with moving and disposal of a four-pall-bearer printer (it takes four strong backs with weak minds to move this thing!), don't simply replace it having to deal with set-up, new profiles, different ink sets. In other words, keep things simple and don't waste the time to make the move...

This year and with the pandemic making things even stranger, cleaning just didn't fix the issue so after a phone call and the arrival of a new head (the head is a new and improved version I'm told), my 9900 prints as well as it ever has, got a cleaning, a review on its care and maintenance and I'm back to printing with fewer cleanings needed.

My current work load has me running the printer every week to two and I'm doing few cleanings. I also have a 3880 in the studio and it sat for about six months this summer and is working fine.

In my experience and after owning six to eight Epson printers since the mid 1990s including several large-format Epson printers since the start of the millennium, I can tell you that they keep improving and even if they are left to simply sit for a few weeks to a few months, you shouldn't have an issue.

From what I was told, it's not the nozzles that tend to be the source of the clog, it's the dust and lint from the paper, canvas and the environment that cakes onto the head and becomes the issue.

Of course, one's results will vary and my experience may be the exception and not the normal... In the mean time, print up a storm and enjoy your new printer!

[deanwork]

I would say about 3/4 of the time when people have “terminal” nozzle clogs the real problem is clogged dampers. I just replaced all the dampers on my 9890, which starting with this series is called the “ ink selector unit. “
When you call to have someone come out 90% of the time they want you to replace the head and they rarely ever suggest first replacing the dampers.

In all the other series in the past, these the dampers were super easy to get to and replace yourself. You just took the head cover off and popped them out and popped the new cheap ones in. That went a long way to keeping your head in good shape. You can buy the selector unit yourself from Compas micro, but the average person can’t replace them . It’s a pain.  There is an adjustment that needs to be made. Unless you have a delaminated head, which is pretty easy to determine by looking at a nozzle pattern, a head does not need to be replaced.

I did my homework first before calling the Epson tech to come out. They told me oh we rarely ever replace dampers , we almost always replace the heads. Yea of course they do, there is a lot more profit in it and they have replaced one hell of a lot of 9900 / 7900 heads in the last 10 years.

Now I did replace my head first in this case because the yellow channel of the head was obviously delaminated and I knew that before I called them. It was eight years old and did need replacing. But that didn’t open up my nozzles, only the changing the ink selector unit did that.

Finally, this printer, in this case, had only been used for printing on cotton matte media and after 8 years of low volume  use,  of course the dampers were full of cotton sludge. People tell me if you are going to use them for that kind of media replace the dampers every three years or even less depending on volume. If you are printing rc media you may get by with much longer.

It also helps a LOT to keep your capping station clean. The reason mine lasted so long is I cleaned the cap station and the bottom of the head after every use. The wiper blade as well.

They say the new Sure color heads won’t delaminated as fast. I guess we’ll find out in a year or two.


John

[mearussi]

Before you bought it you already knew Epson had nozzle clogging problems. Being afraid of using it sort of defeats the purpose of buying it. You can either try to return it and buy a Canon or get an extended warranty or service contract on it.

[deanwork]

Exactly.

Before you bought it you already knew Epson had nozzle clogging problems. Being afraid of using it sort of defeats the purpose of buying it. You can either try to return it and buy a Canon or get an extended warranty or service contract on it.

[arobinson7547]

CMYKRGBLcLmLkLLk [and now with Matte Black, also). I 'had' to get it. It's the Holy Gail, of Ink config. And the price is so good right now. You really can't beat it. So, IT AIN' T GOING BACK <grin>

Actually, the dilemma was to initialize or not. Just being paranoid that I should wait until I'm ready to make some money. Remember, I've been in Canon world for some years new. My last LF Epson was a 9600, I can remember blowing thru a set of 110mil's trying to clean the head.

I think that one can really be served by having one of each. I did miss that straight paper path of the Epson and I use to get a Hell of a good Black with Matte Black in my 9600 on Epson Enhanced Matte (still a favorite of mine). I give Matte Black to Epson and Photo Black to Canon.

Now I DO have one disappointment. Sometime ago I remember seeing a 'Fine Art' setting in a Rip driving an Epson P10000. The description for this Fine Art setting was that it would disable the second printhead (print with only one head) to get the most accurate results. To print with a high resolution/quality setting and use both heads could strongly introduce Banding in the first 70mm (2.75") of a print. Now I do remember the big deal of the 10000/20000 was the speed (the result of that second printhead). And I interpreted the note as being the 'cost' of that Speed. So for the Fine Art/High Quality bunch, They would want to use just one head.

Anyway, since this head design is in pretty much all the new stuff. Does that problem STILL exist (that was a long time ago). If it does then that would mean it's built into the Head Design (you'd think Firmware, Driver settings, alignment routines, would have resolved that by now.

I always thought if was a problem discovered after the release (10/20K) and once learned, Epson would have introduced some kind of Fix. Or is it Two heads = speed, less quality/accuracy; One head = slower, highest quality/accuracy.

Not every system can control these printers in such a way, but still the principle of the problem read quite clearly, to me.

a Dealer told me a  Customer could not get the 10000 to properly print/register a GPO (Gov't Printing Office) Control Strip and had to return the machine (sounds like the one vs both heads thing)

Personally speed is secondary to me. but that would make one sloppy method to speed things up. Couldn't they just build a PROPER 'bigger' head

What's the status with this One/Two Heads/Banding/Alignment thing today?

[mearussi]

I understand your reluctance to turn it on when you don't really need it, but remember that your ONE year warranty starts from the date you received the printer, not from the date you turned it on. So the clock is ticking and if there is anything that's going to fail you want it to fail before your one year warranty is up. 

[arobinson7547]

Yea. I know. That’s been on my mind. The machine got damaged during delivery. Epson tech came out the next day and recommended I not accept it. The dealer came and picked it up. Got a new Body; placed on the existing stand. He let me know he had it, butI haven’t taken delivery yet.

I think I’ll ask Epson to confirm exactly when my clock will start ticking, under these conditions. I did verify the body had a different serial number than the damaged one.

Someone put weight on the top, causing the front door not to properly close. It was miss aligned.

I do agree; best to get any quarks worked out now. While the warranty period is fresh.