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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 223670 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11440 on: September 17, 2021, 09:45:16 am »

Watch the full 12-minutes if you want context in addition to comic relief.

Stupidity often results from a black & white, closed loop, rigid, narrow reaction (I would hesitate to call it thinking) in the attempt to score some sort of point in a political game. There were—and are—advantages and disadvantages (beyond the obvious cost, complexity, maintenance, nuclear waste, etc. considerations) which were weighed in making the decision several years ago to continue to use diesel electric submarines—which were reconsidered over time and with changes in elected government. Reconsidering decisions over time and reaching different conclusions is something that people whose thinking and attitudes are not set in concrete actually do on occasion.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-16/why-australia-wants-nuclear-submarines

There were also numerous reports in the Australian press, long before today's announcement, of problems and delays with the French company contracted for the diesel electric version.

Really? Has your car changed any since the 1940s? How about diesel powered armored tanks, any changes there? Do you think somehow conventionally powered subs haven't been modernized over the past several decades? Stop trying to throw out reactions as fast as you can and try thinking.

Really? Do you think Australia, with its current grand total of six submarines, expects to take on China alone?

No. The decision to go with diesel subs had already been made by others. He wasn't defending the idea one way or another in their back and forth. He was correcting her ridiculous assumptions about propulsion systems and power plants—and the stupid idea that either would limit a new sub to 20-minutes submerged. You hear what you want to hear—rather than what was actually said.
You're cherry-picking her twenty minutes comment and totally ignored her question about whether the French submarine can stay underwater for more than three days, as nuclear subs do all the time often for months at a time.  Her question was very smart.  The final fact that Australia dropped their agreement to buy French electric subs and get nuclear-powered subs instead indicates she was smarter than the Admiral she was questioning.  If you intend to push back against China, you have to have the best and most modern ships.  And of course, no one expects Australia to go against China alone. That's why they joined America and Great Britain and are buying nuclear subs in the new security pact that didn't include the narcissistic French.

Frankly, I hope after the French get over the disappointment and join us in the Pacific as would other countries like the Philippines, Japan, etc.  China is up to no good stealing territory and Intellectual Property.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11441 on: September 17, 2021, 11:37:13 am »

You're cherry-picking her twenty minutes comment and totally ignored her question about whether the French submarine can stay underwater for more than three days, as nuclear subs do all the time often for months at a time.  Her question was very smart.  The final fact that Australia dropped their agreement to buy French electric subs and get nuclear-powered subs instead indicates she was smarter than the Admiral she was questioning.  If you intend to push back against China, you have to have the best and most modern ships.  And of course, no one expects Australia to go against China alone. That's why they joined America and Great Britain and are buying nuclear subs in the new security pact that didn't include the narcissistic French.

Frankly, I hope after the French get over the disappointment and join us in the Pacific as would other countries like the Philippines, Japan, etc.  China is up to no good stealing territory and Intellectual Property.

Well, for one, I know that I will be on my guard from now on having been alerted to the expansionist desires of France. They cleverly infiltrate other countries with their pastries and wines, the sneaks. They even have an outpost off the coast of Newfoundland, St. Pierre & Miquelon, what's that about. I like the way they distract everyone for a month with that Tour de France; who knows what they're really up to during July every year.

Follow the money, do your own research.

I'll never be able to enjoy croissant again, maybe I'll stick to "freedom fries".
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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11442 on: September 17, 2021, 11:47:33 am »

And if you thought there weren't enough nutters on earth, have a listen to this short podcast about anti-vaxxers come preppers, https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct1xzs.

Here's the blurb from site page:

<<<
As the pandemic progresses, some opponents of Covid-19 vaccines are taking things one step further.
An emerging international grassroots movement is seeking to create online and offline communities away from the vaccinated world.
Trending meets the people who are setting up dating sites, house share groups, even blood banks specifically for the unvaccinated only.
Underpinning many of these efforts is the totally unfounded belief in “vaccine shedding” - the false idea that the unvaccinated can be made ill simply by being around people who have had a coronavirus jab.
But will any of these alternatives to mainstream society take root?
Presenters: Marianna Spring & Chris Giles
>>>

Did you get that? Some anti-vaxxers believe that vaccinated people are "shedding" some toxic bodily fluids, so they want to form their own separate anti-vax communities. I guess they'll have to home school. Or maybe we could ship them to Easter Island, have them plant some trees.

Things were better when village idiots were in villages where everyone could ignore them. Now they form into critical masses of lunacy on social media. I wonder if the threat of hanging around with people like this could be worked into the prison system as a deterrent to crime. :)
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PeterAit

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11443 on: September 17, 2021, 02:03:18 pm »

But interference from the government is worse.  First off, the government isn't spending its own money.  It's taking money in taxes from one group of people and giving it to another, in this case, the GM employees. The rest of the country is paying more for their car purchases since it's their taxes that are paying GM employees.   So that lowers the standard of living of non-GM employees just as rebates for Tesla car purchasers raises theirs, mainly rich people who can afford $100K autos. If the government would only run the military, the post office and a few other things, and leave the rest of us alone, we'd all be better off.

Regarding low wages causing food stamp,s for the most part it;s been the devaluing of the dollar that has caused that.  When I was a kid my father worked supporting my family. He wasn;t rich -  a postal clerk.  Many families were like that then with one worker in the family.  Because of inflation and high taxes, mothers have had to go to work instead of staying home to help raise a family better.  It's been the government that has caused these problems.  Welfare has forced family generations to continue on welfare rather than stand on their own.  Again government caused that.  When President Clinton, a Democrat, got rid of a lot of welfare, everyone did better, especially those families that had been on welfare for generations.  We have moved back to welfare again and the $3.5T will rededicate and reinforce it again.  They'll be more people on food stamps not less as the economy suffers and more jobs go overseas.

Aren't you being self-contradictory? You say the gov't isn't spending its "own money." What money would that be? Money it "prints?" But you have been vociferously against printing, and not totally without reason. So you mean tax dollars, I take it. But tax dollars are money that society has collectively decided to give to the gov't to spend on common needs. No one is "taking" anything. We may individually moan and groan about how much tax we pay and what it's spent on, but these things are in the long run collective decisions. And by voluntarily living in a society we implicitly agree to abide by its rules, even though we don't like them.

And please don't complain about high taxes. We have low taxes here in the US, the total tax burden is 24% of GDP vs 34% weighted average for other OECD countries In fact only 3 countries (Chile, Ireland, and Mexico) have a lower tax burden than the US. And if we could get some reasonable tax income from the super-rich then the burden on the rest of us would decrease.

But you seem all too ready to blame gov't for all our ills. How does the gov't cause inflation? It doesn't of course, but rather endeavors to control it thru monetary policy. It seems generally agreed that a small amount of inflation is a sign of a healthy economy, but of course people on fixed incomes (me, and you I think) are understandably wary of inflation.
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11444 on: September 17, 2021, 02:33:39 pm »

Aren't you being self-contradictory? You say the gov't isn't spending its "own money." What money would that be? Money it "prints?" But you have been vociferously against printing, and not totally without reason. So you mean tax dollars, I take it.
I (we?) have to wonder where Alan got his degree in economics. Asking him to defend or explain his position just adds more noise to the signal.
Does he have a degree in anything, did get a high-school diploma? No idea.
He's someone who never lets nearly total ignorance of a subject (submarines, economics, resolution and more) get in the way of having strong opinions about it.
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11445 on: September 17, 2021, 03:23:51 pm »

First off, the government isn't spending its own money.  It's taking money in taxes from one group of people and giving it to another, in this case, the GM employees.
Of course, there will be zero outrange from this:

Trump gave six months extra Secret Service protection to his kids, three officials. It cost taxpayers $1.7 million.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-secret-service-children-cost-mnuchin/2021/09/16/b9aa6348-156a-11ec-a5e5-ceecb895922f_story.html
Quote
In June, former Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin visited Israel to scout investments for his new company, then flew to Qatar for a conference. At the time, Mnuchin had been out of office for five months.
But, because of an order given by President Donald Trump, he was still entitled to protection by Secret Service agents. As agents followed Mnuchin across the Middle East, the U.S. government paid up to $3,000 each for their plane tickets, and $11,000 for rooms at Qatar’s luxe St. Regis Doha, according to government spending records.
In all, the records show U.S. taxpayers spent more than $52,000 to guard a multimillionaire on a business trip.
These payments were among $1.7 million in additional government spending triggered by Trump’s highly unusual order — which awarded six extra months of Secret Service protection for his four adult children and three top administration officials — according to a Washington Post analysis of new spending documents.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11446 on: September 17, 2021, 04:25:17 pm »

Aren't you being self-contradictory? You say the gov't isn't spending its "own money." What money would that be? Money it "prints?" But you have been vociferously against printing, and not totally without reason. So you mean tax dollars, I take it. But tax dollars are money that society has collectively decided to give to the gov't to spend on common needs. No one is "taking" anything. We may individually moan and groan about how much tax we pay and what it's spent on, but these things are in the long run collective decisions. And by voluntarily living in a society we implicitly agree to abide by its rules, even though we don't like them.

And please don't complain about high taxes. We have low taxes here in the US, the total tax burden is 24% of GDP vs 34% weighted average for other OECD countries In fact only 3 countries (Chile, Ireland, and Mexico) have a lower tax burden than the US. And if we could get some reasonable tax income from the super-rich then the burden on the rest of us would decrease.

But you seem all too ready to blame gov't for all our ills. How does the gov't cause inflation? It doesn't of course, but rather endeavors to control it thru monetary policy. It seems generally agreed that a small amount of inflation is a sign of a healthy economy, but of course people on fixed incomes (me, and you I think) are understandably wary of inflation.
Your questions are very interesting and important.  First off the government gets money in three basic ways.  Taxes, printing, borrowing.  It doesn't earn money like people who work or invest and produce things.  Government produces nothing. 

Inflation is the expansion of the money supply.  There has to be some relationship between the amount of currency and the country's production of goods and services.  For example, as the population increases, there are more goods and services that can be produced.  More people who are teachers, dentists, cops, and goods like airplanes and food.  So the Fed can increase the amount of currency (inflation) without any dire effect.  It balances out.  You have more money but also more goods and services. So prices stay the same all other things remaining equal.   

However, if the Fed inflates the dollar while the amount of goods and services stay the same or are reduced as has happened due to Covid shutdowns, you now have more money chasing fewer goods.  That pushes the price of things higher because each dollar is worth less.  It's like baseball cards of Mickey Mantle.  Let's say there are one hundred in circulation and each currently is worth about $1500 on the collector's market.  Well, if someone printed up another hundred cards making there two hundred in circulation, each card would be worth less.  Same with money.  Too much and they're worth less and relatively the cost of things go up hurting especially fixed-income people, retired, and salaried people although they might get an increase in pay, usually not equal to the devalued currency.  Inflation hurts the poor and middle class the most.  Investments in assets like real estate and the stock market tend to go higher, as richer people have advantages by keeping their money in assets not savings. 

Of course, inflation hurts the economy eventually and that could mean a lower market value as well in stock and real estate.  As the cost of things goes up, fewer people can afford to buy the product and manufacturers start to lose business.  Then they lay off employees and the whole economy can suffer.  When the government prints rather than gets its money from taxes for social programs or infrastructure, that really hurts the economy as inflation raises prices higher than incomes.  Also, keep in mind that taxes and borrowing, and government spending especially deficit spending reduces the amount of money available for private investment which is required to grow an economy. 

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11447 on: September 17, 2021, 05:04:46 pm »

It doesn't earn money like people who work or invest and produce things.
You earned money doing what before you retired and took in SSI? What was your profession in the day, to feed your family????
Quote
Government produces nothing. 
Once again, the hammer jerks the knee and posts utter rubbish.
http://www.socialstudieshelp.com/Eco_Public_Goods.htm
Quote
Public goods are those goods and services provided by the government because a market failure has occurred and the market has not provided them. Sometimes it is in our benefit to not allow for a market provision. In the case of police, national defense and public education it can be argued that private provision of these services would be less desirable for a variety of reasons.
Public goods are economic products that are consumed collectively, like highways, sanitation, schools, national defense, police and fire protection.
When will you see, your posts are not taken seriously by anyone other than Alan Klein?
You massively struggle just finding how to get iPhone photo's onto your PC, work on that massive complex problem first before posting more nonsense in this forum about the Government, submarines or resolution. 
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11448 on: September 17, 2021, 06:21:35 pm »

You massively struggle just finding how to get iPhone photo's onto your PC, work on that massive complex problem first before posting more nonsense in this forum about the Government, submarines or resolution.

It might be a good idea to open a new thread about coexistence with Apple and how to transfer files between Apple products and real computers.
Also how to connect external devices to iPad or iPhone.
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11449 on: September 17, 2021, 06:28:53 pm »

It might be a good idea to open a new thread about coexistence with Apple and how to transfer files between Apple products and real computers.
Also how to connect external devices to iPad or iPhone.
The thread (by Alan) was started today and there is a link.
The answer to all of the above is far easier than submarine design (by assumption)  ;D.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11450 on: September 17, 2021, 07:26:55 pm »

Meanwhile, France has recalled their ambassador to the US because of Biden, something they never did with Trump. We'll be going back again to Freedom Fries from French Fries pretty soon. I figure it's the fact France lost the submarine deal with Australia and that the UK is in on the security pack and not France that really ticks them off.   And they were expecting Biden to roll over after Trump.  Good for Biden in that respect.

France recalls ambassadors from the US and Australia over submarine deal
The move came after Australia broke off a submarine deal with France to buy nuclear-powered subs from the US. The White House said it regrets France's decision.
https://www.dw.com/en/france-recalls-ambassadors-from-the-us-and-australia-over-submarine-deal/a-59219866

On the plus side, Australia has decided a strong relationship again with the US is better than one they've been toying with China.  Why anyone would trust the Chinese is beyond me.  Australia woke up.  I wonder if that Admiral did too?

The Aukus pact is a sign of a new global order
The deal has upset China, but it also binds the US into European security, in a world where Nato may be less relevant
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/17/aukus-pact-china-us-european-security-nato

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11451 on: September 17, 2021, 07:43:23 pm »

Meanwhile, France has recalled their ambassador to the US because of Biden, something they never did with Trump.
Indeed, that was for Americas ambassadors under Trump to do sir.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50293139
Marie Yovanovitch, name ring a bell?
Trump Ordered Ukraine Ambassador Removed After Complaints From Giuliani, Others
And you forget:
Trump's Plan to Quickly Recall Ambassadors Is 'Risky Move': Experts
Donald Trump’s plan to turf out dozens of ambassadors on the day he takes office risks months of risky uncertainty in sensitive parts of the world.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-s-plan-quickly-recall-ambassadors-risky-move-experts-n705131

France recalls ambassadors from the US and Australia over submarine deal: BFD.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11452 on: September 17, 2021, 09:21:37 pm »

Your questions are very interesting and important.  First off the government gets money in three basic ways.  Taxes, printing, borrowing.  It doesn't earn money like people who work or invest and produce things.  Government produces nothing. 

Inflation is the expansion of the money supply.  There has to be some relationship between the amount of currency and the country's production of goods and services.  For example, as the population increases, there are more goods and services that can be produced.  More people who are teachers, dentists, cops, and goods like airplanes and food.  So the Fed can increase the amount of currency (inflation) without any dire effect.  It balances out.  You have more money but also more goods and services. So prices stay the same all other things remaining equal.   

However, if the Fed inflates the dollar while the amount of goods and services stay the same or are reduced as has happened due to Covid shutdowns, you now have more money chasing fewer goods.  That pushes the price of things higher because each dollar is worth less.  It's like baseball cards of Mickey Mantle.  Let's say there are one hundred in circulation and each currently is worth about $1500 on the collector's market.  Well, if someone printed up another hundred cards making there two hundred in circulation, each card would be worth less.  Same with money.  Too much and they're worth less and relatively the cost of things go up hurting especially fixed-income people, retired, and salaried people although they might get an increase in pay, usually not equal to the devalued currency.  Inflation hurts the poor and middle class the most.  Investments in assets like real estate and the stock market tend to go higher, as richer people have advantages by keeping their money in assets not savings. 

Of course, inflation hurts the economy eventually and that could mean a lower market value as well in stock and real estate.  As the cost of things goes up, fewer people can afford to buy the product and manufacturers start to lose business.  Then they lay off employees and the whole economy can suffer.  When the government prints rather than gets its money from taxes for social programs or infrastructure, that really hurts the economy as inflation raises prices higher than incomes.  Also, keep in mind that taxes and borrowing, and government spending especially deficit spending reduces the amount of money available for private investment which is required to grow an economy.

Alan, PLEASE spare us your lectures in economics.  They're oversimplified and ill informed.
If you're worried about your financial future at your age, it's proof that you've mismanaged your finances and that your economic advice is valueless.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11453 on: September 17, 2021, 10:42:53 pm »

Alan, PLEASE spare us your lectures in economics.  They're oversimplified and ill informed.
If you're worried about your financial future at your age, it's proof that you've mismanaged your finances and that your economic advice is valueless.
Rather than knock my knowledge of economics, why don't you provide yours regarding inflation and the damages it causes to the economy, the Fed, taxes and deficit spending. Also, my financial condition is fine if the government doesn't screw it all up. 

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11454 on: September 17, 2021, 10:59:02 pm »

Rather than knock my knowledge of economics, why don't you provide yours regarding inflation and the damages it causes to the economy, the Fed, taxes and deficit spending. Also, my financial condition is fine if the government doesn't screw it all up.
Many oh so many here are knocking far more than your lack of knowledge of economics.
Again; you can't seem to accept that the only reader taking Alan Klein seriously is the writer, Alan Klein.
Your professional opinion is based on what profession I have to ask AGAIN?
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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11455 on: September 17, 2021, 11:18:23 pm »

Alan, PLEASE spare us your lectures in economics.

Quote
In economics it is a far, far wiser thing to be right than to be consistent - John Kenneth Galbraith

Quote
Making a speech on economics is a lot like pissing down your leg. It seems hot to you, but it never does to anyone else. —  Lyndon B. Johnson in comment to John Kenneth Galbraith Name-Dropping (1999) by John Kenneth Galbraith, p. 149
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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11456 on: September 18, 2021, 09:58:16 am »

Rather than knock my knowledge of economics, why don't you provide yours regarding inflation and the damages it causes to the economy, the Fed, taxes and deficit spending. Also, my financial condition is fine if the government doesn't screw it all up.

Alan, you should have stopped about claiming that France was trying to take over the world. You will never top that.
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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11457 on: September 18, 2021, 11:57:27 am »

Looks like France may change its mind about Trump.
Hammer to knee: Stop jerking.

Quote
In an editorial, Le Monde,
the leading French daily, said:
"For any who still doubted it,
the Biden Administration is
no different from the Trump
administration on this point:
The United States comes first,
whether it's in the strategic, economic,
financial or health fields"
.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11458 on: September 18, 2021, 12:14:54 pm »

Alan, you should have stopped about claiming that France was trying to take over the world. You will never top that.
Not to take over the world as much as wanting to run the show. DeGaulle was like that.  You'd think after America, Russia and the UK saved his country's nuts in WWII, he'd be a little more humble right after that. 

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11459 on: September 18, 2021, 12:15:31 pm »

Canada too freed France.
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