Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[James Clark]

Interesting article even though it's a CNN poll.  A lot of people feel elections are not honest and some feel new rules lock out voters.  There seems to be discontent on both sides of the argument.  By the way, I posted Florida's new election laws and asked if you found them fair or not.  Did you read my post about it?  What do you think?

Ok...

Limits on drop boxes - seems unnecessary, and limits voting access for no good reason

Voter ID requirements - using last 4 of ssn is reasonable, but I imagine some at the margins might be impacted. Not sure

Cutting vote by mail from 2 cycles to one - seems unnecessary

The infamous “providing water” part.  So they changed it from 100 yards to 150.  Seems inconsequential, but why bother?

And so on. These are solutions in search of a problem that simply doesn’t exist.  The unltimate impact will be in terms of implementation I guess - we’ll see.

Oh. Here’s a big one at the end.  Governor fills vacant seats instead of an election.   Thats a bad one.

[Alan Klein]

Ok...

Limits on drop boxes - seems unnecessary, and limits voting access for no good reason

Voter ID requirements - using last 4 of ssn is reasonable, but I imagine some at the margins might be impacted. Not sure

Cutting vote by mail from 2 cycles to one - seems unnecessary

The infamous “providing water” part.  So they changed it from 100 yards to 150.  Seems inconsequential, but why bother?

And so on. These are solutions in search of a problem that simply doesn’t exist.  The unltimate impact will be in terms of implementation I guess - we’ll see.

Oh. Here’s a big one at the end.  Governor fills vacant seats instead of an election.   Thats a bad one.

Doesn't seem either of us have any big issues with most of the new rules. Regarding your last concern, governors usually replace congressmen and senators of their state who resign or die until there can be an election, if that's what you're referring to. How else could it be done?

[Jonathan Cross]

In the UK we have a by-election if a vacancy arises.

Jonathan

[Alan Klein]

In the UK we have a by-election if a vacancy arises.

Jonathan

what's that and how does it work?

[Peter McLennan]

what's that and how does it work?

The same as it does in Canada.  Logically, fairly, efficiently and legally.

[Alan Klein]

The same as it does in Canada.  Logically, fairly, efficiently and legally.

ok so how does it work in Canada?

[Alan Klein]

Doesn't seem either of us have any big issues with most of the new rules. Regarding your last concern, governors usually replace congressmen and senators of their state who resign or die until there can be an election, if that's what you're referring to. How else could it be done?

Governors selections doesn't apply to representatives,  only to senators,  in most cases.
https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/vacancies-in-the-united-states-senate637302453.aspx

[Robert Roaldi]

ok so how does it work in Canada?

When a seat becomes vacant for whatever reason, an election is organized for that riding (district). Unless the timing is such that it's close to an upcoming election anyway, in which case they don't bother.

You mean, other places don't do this? If a Congressional rep or Senator has to leave office before the end of the mandate, what happens?

[PeterAit]

I don't recall Democrats admitting Trump was president either.  Didn't they impeach him for colluding with the Russians?  Hillary still doesn't admit she lost, does she?  How many people here on LuLa called him a traitor?  You have a short memory. 

A few Dems said "he's not my president" but almost all admitted he was legally the prez. And they did not march and invade the Capitol and assault cops and break/steal stuff and try to disrupt the democratic process in protest.

There were tons of evidence that Trump and his people colluded (and obstructed justice) but Mueller decided it was not wise to press charges.

Hillary publicly conceded on Nov 9th.

Do facts give you hives, Alan? Try benadryl.

[Jonathan Cross]

Same in the UK. The process is the same as it would be in a General Election, but only the one constituency but only one seat is involved.

Jonathan

[Chris Kern]

There were tons of evidence that Trump and his people colluded (and obstructed justice) but Mueller decided it was not wise to press charges.

Not exactly: the special councel's office followed a longstanding Department of Justice legal opinion that a president is temporarily immune to criminal prosecution for the duration of his term in office.

The "Mueller Report" stated that neither Trump himself nor anyone associated with his campaign participated in a criminal conspiracy with the Russian operatives who were interfering with the 2016 election.  The report presented considerable evidence that persons close to Trump colluded with the Russian operation, but there is no federal crime of "collusion" and the lawyers on the special counsel's staff apparently concluded that the behavior of Trump's associates (including some members of his family) was not sufficient to meet the requirements of a successful conspiracy prosecution.

Note that only Trump was temporarily immune to criminal prosecution; if the special counsel's office believed some of his associates had participated in a criminal conspiracy, they could have been prosecuted under the Justice Department policy.  So I read their decision as an exoneration on the criminal conspiracy theory.

The report offered evidence that was more than sufficient to establish a prima facie case that Trump himself had obstructed Justice by interfering with the counterespionage investigation into Russian interference with the election and, but for the Justice Department policy, he presumably would have been prosecuted.  Technically, he still could be, but I suspect the current attorney general, Merrick Garland, would be prepared to violate his own promise to Congress not to interfere with prosecutorial decisions if one or more of the regional U.S. attorneys attempted to bring obstruction of justice charges against the former president—on the theory that it is important to make it clear that the Department of Justice no longer is engaging in the politically-motivated behavior of Trump and his attorneys general, even if that meant forgoing a prosecution that had a good chance of resulting in a conviction.

[Alan Klein]

Not exactly: the special councel's office followed a longstanding Department of Justice legal opinion that a president is temporarily immune to criminal prosecution for the duration of his term in office.

The "Mueller Report" stated that neither Trump himself nor anyone associated with his campaign participated in a criminal conspiracy with the Russian operatives who were interfering with the 2016 election.  The report presented considerable evidence that persons close to Trump colluded with the Russian operation, but there is no federal crime of "collusion" and the lawyers on the special counsel's staff apparently concluded that the behavior of Trump's associates (including some members of his family) was not sufficient to meet the requirements of a successful conspiracy prosecution.

Note that only Trump was temporarily immune to criminal prosecution; if the special counsel's office believed some of his associates had participated in a criminal conspiracy, they could have been prosecuted under the Justice Department policy.  So I read their decision as an exoneration on the criminal conspiracy theory.

The report offered evidence that was more than sufficient to establish a prima facie case that Trump himself had obstructed Justice by interfering with the counterespionage investigation into Russian interference with the election and, but for the Justice Department policy, he presumably would have been prosecuted.  Technically, he still could be, but I suspect the current attorney general, Merrick Garland, would be prepared to violate his own promise to Congress not to interfere with prosecutorial decisions if one or more of the regional U.S. attorneys attempted to bring obstruction of justice charges against the former president—on the theory that it is important to make it clear that the Department of Justice no longer is engaging in the politically-motivated behavior of Trump and his attorneys general, even if that meant forgoing a prosecution that had a good chance of resulting in a conviction.

There was no collusion.  You're making stuff up to justify a phoney prosecution and attempt to destroy the Trump presidency. What collusion there was included the Democratic party, Hillary Clinton and her phoney planted dossier, the Obama administration, FBI, using their powers to go after Trump secretly and lying to the FISA courts to justify it.  Although he could have, Trump never cancelled the Mueller investigation and let it play out knowing he did nothing wrong. 

[Alan Klein]

This is why Biden should not reverse the cancellation of the agreement with Iran.  They just keep creating problems in the Middle East.

US Navy seizes massive arms shipment 'from Iran to Houthis'
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20210510-us-navy-seizes-massive-arms-shipment-from-iran-to-houthis/

[Robert Roaldi]

This is why Biden should not reverse the cancellation of the agreement with Iran.  They just keep creating problems in the Middle East. ...

This was unintentionally funny. Who doesn't "cause" problems in the Middle East? There have been nothing but problems there since we've been alive, but you zero in on Iran!

[Robert Roaldi]

Too bad this kind of mass shooting isn't caused by a virus, https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/10/us/us-weekend-mass-shootings/index.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210510&instance_id=30528&nl=the-morning&regi_id=123097087&segment_id=57667&te=1&user_id=a16d84e9e98e45ca22f1c69a27680995. If it were, it might be easier to fix.

[Alan Klein]

Too bad this kind of mass shooting isn't caused by a virus, https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/10/us/us-weekend-mass-shootings/index.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210510&instance_id=30528&nl=the-morning&regi_id=123097087&segment_id=57667&te=1&user_id=a16d84e9e98e45ca22f1c69a27680995. If it were, it might be easier to fix.

People are bored.  We got to get back to work; in an office. 

[Alan Klein]

This was unintentionally funny. Who doesn't "cause" problems in the Middle East? There have been nothing but problems there since we've been alive, but you zero in on Iran!

Well if we're going to be there, who needs Iran causing all sorts of problems?  On the other hand, maybe we should just get out entirely and let all these folks work out their own issues. 

[Robert Roaldi]

People are bored.  We got to get back to work; in an office.

Well, that's a bit insensitive but never mind. I read somewhere, maybe in that article, that there have been 194 mass shootings so far in 2021. One of the marketing memes about gun ownership is that people need them for self-protection. Since people are continuing to be killed by others with guns, it must mean that Americans don't own enough guns yet. Shouldn't there be at least some trend in the data that shows that people are actually able to protect themselves now and then by using guns? At some point, there needs to be some evidence or that line of argument may start to lose its appeal.

I think it was last week that Texas made it ok to open carry without a permit/license. What could go wrong?

Someone sent me a Twitter trail about an NRA tweet regarding mothers and guns that appeared soon after that shooting at a Colorado birthday party yesterday, the latest "thoughts and prayers" moment. I don't have the link anymore. But I saw one hilarious satirical tweet response. The person said that if the NRA was in another country, the US would go to war with them! Over the top but funny. It's always good to maintain a sense of humour about these things.

[Alan Klein]

Well, that's a bit insensitive but never mind. I read somewhere, maybe in that article, that there have been 194 mass shootings so far in 2021. One of the marketing memes about gun ownership is that people need them for self-protection. Since people are continuing to be killed by others with guns, it must mean that Americans don't own enough guns yet. Shouldn't there be at least some trend in the data that shows that people are actually able to protect themselves now and then by using guns? At some point, there needs to be some evidence or that line of argument may start to lose its appeal.

I think it was last week that Texas made it ok to open carry without a permit/license. What could go wrong?

Someone sent me a Twitter trail about an NRA tweet regarding mothers and guns that appeared soon after that shooting at a Colorado birthday party yesterday, the latest "thoughts and prayers" moment. I don't have the link anymore. But I saw one hilarious satirical tweet response. The person said that if the NRA was in another country, the US would go to war with them! Over the top but funny. It's always good to maintain a sense of humour about these things.

Well, that's a bit insensitive but never mind. 

[Alan Klein]

Well, that's a bit insensitive but never mind. I read somewhere, maybe in that article, that there have been 194 mass shootings so far in 2021. One of the marketing memes about gun ownership is that people need them for self-protection. Since people are continuing to be killed by others with guns, it must mean that Americans don't own enough guns yet. Shouldn't there be at least some trend in the data that shows that people are actually able to protect themselves now and then by using guns? At some point, there needs to be some evidence or that line of argument may start to lose its appeal.

I think it was last week that Texas made it ok to open carry without a permit/license. What could go wrong?

Someone sent me a Twitter trail about an NRA tweet regarding mothers and guns that appeared soon after that shooting at a Colorado birthday party yesterday, the latest "thoughts and prayers" moment. I don't have the link anymore. But I saw one hilarious satirical tweet response. The person said that if the NRA was in another country, the US would go to war with them! Over the top but funny. It's always good to maintain a sense of humour about these things.

Well, you never know when you have to protect yourself from a tiger, especially in Houston, Texas.

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/05/10/what-a-zoo-tiger-spotted-outside-home-in-houston-neighborhood/