Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Manoli]

How many in-person voting centres were operative throughout all 50 states in the 2020 election ?

As a guideline comparing the USA to the UK ( and allowing for demographic differences)

the US population is 326 v 66 million
voting population (guesstimate) : 160 v 32 million
area: 3,796,742 v 93,628 square miles

By population , it's a x5 multiple
By land mass, it's a x20 multiple

In the 2017 UK General Election there were 40,750 polling stations.
Pro rata that would equate, depending on the multiple, to somewhere between 203,000 to over 800,000 in-persom polling places across America to maintain a degree of equivalence.

How many were there ?

[Manoli]

Pro rata that would equate, depending on the multiple, to somewhere between 203,000 to over 800,000 in-persom polling places across America to maintain a degree of equivalence.

The only figures I've found so far show that 20,818 (20 %) polling places were eliminated prior to the 2020 US Election. That gives a guesstimate figure of just over 83,000 polling places active.

Woefully inadeqiate. Can't think of a better justification for Federal funding of the Presidential Election and bi-partisan adoption of most of the major provisions of the 'For the People Act' .

[Alan Klein]

The only figures I've found so far show that 20,818 (20 %) polling places were eliminated prior to the 2020 US Election. That gives a guesstimate figure of just over 83,000 polling places active.

Woefully inadeqiate. Can't think of a better justification for Federal funding of the Presidential Election and bi-partisan adoption of most of the major provisions of the 'For the People Act' .

First off each of our 50 states decide these things. More importantly, almost half (46%) of the voting was done by mail in the last election.  And that's growing.  We don't need so many "stations" any more.  That's a false narrative on your part.
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2020/11/20/the-voting-experience-in-2020/

[TechTalk]

It's a nine page report from Pew Research and you skipped page #1. Your link goes to page #4.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2020/11/20/sharp-divisions-on-vote-counts-as-biden-gets-high-marks-for-his-post-election-conduct

Here's the first page...

Sharp Divisions on Vote Counts, as Biden Gets High Marks for His Post-Election Conduct - NOVEMBER 20, 2020

Large majority of Americans say additional COVID-19 aid is needed – and want Congress to pass it as soon as possible [check - done - next item]

The weeks since Biden’s victory have been marked by the Trump campaign’s frantic and thus far unsuccessful attempts to challenge the election results in several states. Voters express much more positive views of Biden’s conduct since the election than Trump’s – and 57% say the Trump campaign’s legal challenges to the voting and ballot counting process should end.

A majority of voters (62%) say Biden’s post-election conduct has been excellent or good, while just half as many (31%) give Trump positive ratings for his conduct since the election. About seven-in-ten (68%) view Trump’s conduct as only fair or poor, with a 54% majority rating it poor. [Little did they know when this survey was conducted, just how poor it would become!]

[Manoli]

First off each of our 50 states decide these things.

Precisely one of the reasons the proposed bill (HR1) calls for reform and Federal oversight.

More importantly, almost half (46%) of the voting was done by mail in the last election.  And that's growing.  We don't need so many "stations" any more.

8 and 11 hour queues to vote in person anywhere say otherwise; Trump’s frontal assault on mail voting and attacks on the USPS also had a negative impact pushing many toward in-person voting,

Voter engagement and interest, voting by mail and in person

HR1 - really, what is there NOT to like other than it goes a long way to thwarting voter suppression ?

Annotated Guide to the For the People Act of 2021

[Robert Roaldi]

First off each of our 50 states decide these things. More importantly, almost half (46%) of the voting was done by mail in the last election.  And that's growing.  We don't need so many "stations" any more.  That's a false narrative on your part.
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2020/11/20/the-voting-experience-in-2020/

Until your boy Trump lost while filling your brain with fakery about rigged elections, did you spend much time worrying about voter ID and voter suppression or any of it? Because what it looks like is that while your boys win, everything is hunky-dory, but if your boys lose then all of a sudden the republic is in danger. It's not a credible position.

Have you taken a look at the worst of the gerrymandered districts? That's an embarrassment as absurd as Russian "elections". Have you been in a tizzy about those for the last 20 years? Or are gerrymandered districts ok when a Republican Congressmen benefit from them.

The thing is, if you insist that everyone else's motives are primarily determined by whether or not they win or lose, which is more or less your default position on almost everything, then the obvious conclusion others will reach is that is how you view things yourself. The constant advancement of your partisan-based analyses destroys your own arguments.

[PeterAit]

It's not just ID - it's type of ID and access to acquire said ID, not to mention access to actual voting.  It's all of it.  If you want to argue that everyone voting should have some sort of ID that's reasonably secure, and as many convenient and easy ways to vote as possible to cover a wide variety of life situations, you won't get anywhere near as much pushback from me. 

So for example:  Everyone has to have some sort of ID - utility bill, School ID, WIC card, whatever.  But once you do that, it needs to be as easy as possible to vote.  No question mail in voting, more dropboxes, extended voting hours etc. - all of it.  But that's not what's happening.  Did you note the link I posted above about the NC 4th Circuit case?  They killed a voting day *because that's when black people vote.*  That's repulsive, isn't it??

I agree. In principle, an ID requirement is fine, but how it's implemented is crucial. As an example, when the GOP legislature here in NC passed a voter ID bill (since struck down) they specifically excluded the photo IDs issued to students at the state universities, and private Unis as well. And we all know that was because students tend to vote liberal. At the same time they were trying to shut down some campus polling places. Don't expect anyone with the wits of an oyster to believe is for "fraud prevention."

[Alan Klein]

Until your boy Trump lost while filling your brain with fakery about rigged elections, did you spend much time worrying about voter ID and voter suppression or any of it? Because what it looks like is that while your boys win, everything is hunky-dory, but if your boys lose then all of a sudden the republic is in danger. It's not a credible position.

Have you taken a look at the worst of the gerrymandered districts? That's an embarrassment as absurd as Russian "elections". Have you been in a tizzy about those for the last 20 years? Or are gerrymandered districts ok when a Republican Congressmen benefit from them.

The thing is, if you insist that everyone else's motives are primarily determined by whether or not they win or lose, which is more or less your default position on almost everything, then the obvious conclusion others will reach is that is how you view things yourself. The constant advancement of your partisan-based analyses destroys your own arguments.

When Democrat-controlled states gerrymander blacks and other groups to increase their power it's called "just politics".  When republicans gerrymander in republican controlled states, it's called "racism".  Ditto with voting rules.  We seem to have two dictionaries.

[Alan Klein]

I agree. In principle, an ID requirement is fine, but how it's implemented is crucial. As an example, when the GOP legislature here in NC passed a voter ID bill (since struck down) they specifically excluded the photo IDs issued to students at the state universities, and private Unis as well. And we all know that was because students tend to vote liberal. At the same time they were trying to shut down some campus polling places. Don't expect anyone with the wits of an oyster to believe is for "fraud prevention."

You may be right about students voting liberal.  But people can walk and chew gum at the same time.  There could be a real concern that college-issued ID's are not controlled by the government and open to fraud.  So kids working in the college administrative offices runoff hundreds of phony IDs that they use to get mail-in ballots to fraudulently vote with.  Having some oversight over who issues IDs seems reasonable.

HR1 would do away with most oversight opening the whole process to ballots that are harvested, phony voting, electioneering, and other favorite ways Democrats have used in the past to "win" elections.  That's why republicans are tightening up their laws.  The games played by Democrats in the last election raises doubts that future elections would be honest.  Almost half of all votes in the last election were mail-ins.  Millions of those ballots were mailed willy-nilly to people, dead and alive, many who moved, who never requested them.  It opened the whole process to gameplaying.  IF we're going to have mail-in ballots, there have to be ways to assure honesty or the public will lose respect for the government and its leaders. We'll have more riots at the Capitol. 

[James Clark]

You may be right about students voting liberal.  But people can walk and chew gum at the same time.  There could be a real concern that college-issued ID's are not controlled by the government and open to fraud.  So kids working in the college administrative offices runoff hundreds of phony IDs that they use to get mail-in ballots to fraudulently vote with. 

Ah geez, Alan. Come on.  Think that through, from start to actual vote cast. How the hell would that even work?  It's sort of like how people were insisting that someone wheeled 10K fake ballots in the GA counting facility and they somehow got added to the official tally.

[Robert Roaldi]

When Democrat-controlled states gerrymander blacks and other groups to increase their power it's called "just politics".  When republicans gerrymander in republican controlled states, it's called "racism".  Ditto with voting rules.  We seem to have two dictionaries.

Biased knee-jerkism aside, your point is what, gerrymandering is good when my boys win? My point was that it's bad, regardless of who wins.

It's not possible for you to think of the bigger picture, is it? It's ONLY about who wins.

[Alan Klein]

Ah geez, Alan. Come on.  Think that through, from start to actual vote cast. How the hell would that even work?  It's sort of like how people were insisting that someone wheeled 10K fake ballots in the GA counting facility and they somehow got added to the official tally.

It reminds me of one of my favorite movies War Games with Matthew Broderick.  He breaks into his school's computer and changes his girlfriend's grades to A's.

Check the trailer at 0:25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbqMuvnx5MU

[Alan Klein]

Biased knee-jerkism aside, your point is what, gerrymandering is good when my boys win? My point was that it's bad, regardless of who wins.

It's not possible for you to think of the bigger picture, is it? It's ONLY about who wins.

I never said that.  What I'm saying both sides do the same stuff, trying to maximize their political advantage. But it's called politics when Democrats do it and racism when Republicans do the same thing. 

[James Clark]

It reminds me of one of my favorite movies War Games with Matthew Broderick.  He breaks into his school's computer and changes his girlfriend's grades to A's.

Check the trailer at 0:25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbqMuvnx5MU

Good movie.  Still just a movie .   Plus, how does hacking a machine have anything to do with student ID cards?

[Alan Klein]

Here comes the inflation that will hurt the middle class and the poor the most as well as fixed income and savers.  The $1.9 trillion and the upcoming infrastructure $2T or whatever will just add to it with the burdens of taxes and higher prices on us, our children, and grandchildren.  No free lunch.

U.S. Producer Prices Heated Up in March. Now the Inflation Debate Is Heating Up
U.S. producers are facing sharply higher input costs as prices surge on everything from oil to transportation.

The Labor Department’s producer-price index rose 1% in March from a month earlier, double the rate reported in February as well as double the rate of increase economists had anticipated for March. From a year earlier, wholesale prices jumped 4.2%. That’s versus a 2.8% rate in February and versus the 3.8% gain economists projected.

Excluding the effects of food and energy, so-called core inflation rose a much higher-than-expected 0.7% month-over-month and 3.1% year-over-year. The figures follow a hotter-than-anticipated PPI report from China on Thursday night, showing price increases are happening globally.
https://www.barrons.com/articles/u-s-producer-prices-heated-up-in-march-now-the-inflation-debate-is-heating-up-51617979086?siteid=yhoof2

[Alan Klein]

Good movie.  Still just a movie .   Plus, how does hacking a machine have anything to do with student ID cards?

Well typical student hijinks.  I could see a deliberate attempt to issue phony IDs and then request a mail-in ballot for all of them.  Once you get a ballot, you check the candidate of your choice, sign it with the phony name you created (maybe a dead person),  and mail it in.  Everything will match up when received by the election officials and the vote will be counted.

[dreed]

Here comes the inflation that will hurt the middle class and the poor the most as well as fixed income and savers.  The $1.9 trillion and the upcoming infrastructure $2T or whatever will just add to it with the burdens of taxes and higher prices on us, our children, and grandchildren.  No free lunch.

If you think this inflation is due to the $1.9 trillion or $2 trillion spending then you know about as much about the economy as an ant.

I really feel sorry for you Alan, you are Republican, not a person, and as such any criticism of anything Republican is personal to you. It is truely tragic to witness and to think that some 30-40% of Americans are like this. Victory for the Republican ruling class to have extinguished critical thinking from you.

[Alan Klein]

Good movie.  Still just a movie .   Plus, how does hacking a machine have anything to do with student ID cards?

I just lookup for something similar in NJ.  Another place really close to where I live.  If a judge can do this at his law office, what's stopping some college kid to do this from the administrative office at his college, or one of the school officials doing it?  Remember, the concern is not only presidential elections.  Most elections like this judge are for local positions.  The government has an obligation to protect the election process from all fraud.  It's easier to cheat on small elections where a few votes one way or the other can get you a win.  It's got nothing to do with race just protecting the process. The thing that gets me is it seems the judge wasn't sent to jail and only got a tap on his knuckles.  Curious.  What kind of intervention programs are there for election fraud?

Spencer Robbins, a municipal judge in Middlesex County, was forced to resign after it was discovered he registered to vote (and actually voted in 22 elections and democratic primaries) using the address of his Woodbridge law office. Although charged with two counts of third-degree voter fraud, Robbins was allowed to enter into a pre-trial intervention program, which means the charges will be dismissed if he successfully completes the program.
https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/search?combine=&state=NJ&year=&case_type=All&fraud_type=All

[JoeKitchen]

If you think this inflation is due to the $1.9 trillion or $2 trillion spending then you know about as much about the economy as an ant.

I really feel sorry for you Alan, you are Republican, not a person, and as such any criticism of anything Republican is personal to you. It is truely tragic to witness and to think that some 30-40% of Americans are like this. Victory for the Republican ruling class to have extinguished critical thinking from you.

And if you don't realize that artificially raising demand by pumping the economy full of money while decreasing supply through higher taxes and regulations can cause run away inflation, then you too dont know any more about economics then a ant. 

By hey, dont take my word for it, take the word of that far right wing radical economist Larry Summers, you know, one of Obama's wing men. 

Summers Sees ‘Least Responsible’ Fiscal Policy in 40 Years

Hmmm, 40 years ago was ... the 1970s, more or less, with run away inflation.  Now he did take a swipe at Republicans even though not one voted for the last bill; I guess partisans will always be partisans.  However the prognosis is not looking good.  I tend to ignore inflation concerns since they always seem to be cry from the right, but when smart left leaning people start warning of this, it is not something to ignore. 

We have a couple generations of Americans who have never experienced real inflation (including me) who are being fed this garbage that we can ignore all the rules of economics without any consequences, and a lot of people are believing it. 

I tend to believe the bill will be due soon, and, unfortunately, as is the case with most major recessions in the past, everything will be fine until, one day, it just suddenly isn't.  And by then we will have blown out our debt to levels where no one will want to buy our bonds, the already low interest rates will not be able to be lowered enough to have any effect, and austerity returns. 

[Alan Klein]

If you think this inflation is due to the $1.9 trillion or $2 trillion spending then you know about as much about the economy as an ant.

I really feel sorry for you Alan, you are Republican, not a person, and as such any criticism of anything Republican is personal to you. It is truely tragic to witness and to think that some 30-40% of Americans are like this. Victory for the Republican ruling class to have extinguished critical thinking from you.

The word inflation mean expanding the money supply.  If not offset by more production, the extra money eventually causes more money chasing the same amount of goods or less as in our case due to Covid.  So prices for goods and services go up as well as assets like the stock and real estate markets. 

The money supply has expanded from 800 Billion on the Fed's account in 2008 to around $7 trillion currently, not included are all these extra stimulation and infrastructure bills.  These amounts don't include all the other expansion that has occurred or planned.  It's got nothing to do with Republicans.  Trump was just as much a spendthrift as the Democrats.  He had a trillion-dollar deficit in his last year in office.  I've complained about Republicans and Democrats doing this.  Both parties believe in printing and not controlling the budget.