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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 471139 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #8260 on: March 01, 2021, 03:35:28 pm »

Democrat Gov Cuomo of NY hired a criminal defense attorney to represent him regarding the Covid deaths in nursing homes.  But according to many here, he's got nothing to worry about.  Nobody died by his hand. he's always told the truth.  Never covered up anything.  It's just fake news.

Now he's being accused of sexual harassment by two aides.  He says it was just a joke.  Maybe he'll win another Emmy.

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #8261 on: March 01, 2021, 03:44:28 pm »

Since you linked to a CNBC report, let's see what the article you linked to actually says...

When he was running for president, Joe Biden said he would hold senior Saudi leaders accountable for Khashoggi’s death, calling the kingdom’s leadership a “pariah” that had “very little social redeeming value.”

On Friday, Treasury slapped sanctions on the crown prince’s security detail, known as the Rapid Intervention Force. It also sanctioned the former deputy head of the kingdom’s intelligence service, Ahmad Hassan Mohammed al-Asiri, who is accused of being a ringleader in the plot.

Meanwhile, the State Department imposed visa restrictions on 76 Saudi individuals “believed to have been engaged in threatening dissidents overseas, including but not limited to the Khashoggi killing.”

When asked if the Biden administration would take further action, Psaki said that the United States would recalibrate its relationship with Saudi Arabia in the wake of the Trump administration.

Earlier this month, Biden announced the end of U.S. support for offensive operations in Yemen. Since March 2015, Saudi Arabia and the UAE have carried out attacks in Yemen against the Houthis. The Saudi-led intervention in Yemen had previously enjoyed the backing of former President Donald Trump’s administration. And last month, Biden halted sales of precision-guided munitions to Saudi Arabia in order to assess potential human rights abuses.

Despite reports that Saudi Arabia was behind the attack, Trump said in a lengthy statement that the United States would stand with Saudi Arabia.

Throughout his presidency, Trump often cited the importance of America’s relationship with Saudi Arabia, repeatedly pushing back on approving significant economic or political consequences for Riyadh’s human rights abuses.

The Biden administration has previously said it is reviewing U.S. relations with Saudi Arabia and unlike the previous administration, the 35-year-old royal is not viewed as the president’s counterpart. Instead, Biden and will conduct relations through the crown prince’s aging father, King Salman, and Secretary of State Antony Blinken will conduct relations through the foreign minister.

Biden sanctioned the hit men and let the Godfather off the hook because America has to do business with him.   Fig leaves.

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #8262 on: March 01, 2021, 03:45:40 pm »

But according to many here, he's got nothing to worry about.

Who?
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #8263 on: March 01, 2021, 03:53:54 pm »

Fig leaves.

No. Real world pragmatic diplomatic measures which, among other actions, include ending support for a Saudi led war with a neighboring country and halting Saudi desired weapons sales.

It may look like fig leaves if that's what you're using to cover your eyes and pretend nothing has changed. Try taking them off.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #8264 on: March 01, 2021, 03:55:35 pm »

So you should be pleased then. At the time it happened, you said something about MBS along the lines of, "...he's our thug", whereas I remember suggesting that maybe you were his "bitch" instead. I don't think there are many people in the world who would suggest that American foreign policy is based on human decency and ethics, or even a love or respect for democracy either. If those ideals and your self-interest coincide, well cool, but if they don't, it's not as if the American voter cares much. Internationally, self-interest is the rule, I'd say, for just about everyone by to some degree, the USA is not unique in that, just the one with the biggest footprint at the moment.  I know you're trying to make this into a "let's pick on Biden moment" but American foreign policy has been what it has been for many decades. The only difference under Trump might have been his pursuit of his own business interests as part of the complicated mix.
Of course.  I'm just trying to show the hypocracy of many here and on the left and democrats.  All the arguments of how terrible Trump was because he maintained relations with some seedy allies like the Saudis or acted against adversaries like Iran.  Hopefully, Biden will recognized what's in America's interest, ignore domestic politics, and keep intact policies established by Trump that are still of value to us.

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #8265 on: March 01, 2021, 03:59:38 pm »

I'm just trying to show the hypocracy of many here

It often appears that is not what's showing when you post.
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #8266 on: March 01, 2021, 04:05:12 pm »

I'm just trying to show the hypocracy of many here and on the left and democrats. 
It often appears that is not what's showing when you post.
Or worse, it often appears that it is showing the ("hypocracy") hypocrisy of what he posts.
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Chris Kern

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #8267 on: March 01, 2021, 04:30:34 pm »

Internationally, self-interest is the rule, I'd say, for just about everyone by to some degree, the USA is not unique in that, just the one with the biggest footprint at the moment.

As Lord Palmerston famously argued, great powers have neither permanent friends nor permanent enemies, only permanent interests.*

But especially since World War II, the United States has tended to define its foreign policy interests broadly to encompass not just military security and economic advantage, but also the advancement of democracy, adherence to universal standards of human rights, the development and support of international institutions, and, especially lately, multilateral cooperation to respond to non-political worldwide problems such as climate change.

Although the specifics and emphasis tended to change somewhat between different presidential administrations, the general approach remained fairly consistent until the Trump Administration, anomalous in this as well as so many other respects, when officials with little experience and often rather limited intelligence reverted to what might charitably be described as a Nineteenth Century view of international relations—at least to the extent that it wasn't completely incoherent.

Biden and his appointees, supported by career officials in the civilian government agencies and the military, are restoring the postwar consensus that the interests of the United States should be defined broadly, and that foreign policies should be crafted accordingly.  That doesn't mean they will always get it right—no government of any country ever does—but at least the process is likely to have a rational basis once again.

———
*"We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies.  Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow."

   — Speech, House of Commons, 1848

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #8268 on: March 01, 2021, 04:34:44 pm »

No. Real world pragmatic diplomatic measures which, among other actions, include ending support for a Saudi led war with a neighboring country and halting Saudi desired weapons sales.

It may look like fig leaves if that's what you're using to cover your eyes and pretend nothing has changed. Try taking them off.
here's what pro-Biden CNN says:

Biden doesn't penalize crown prince despite promise to punish senior Saudi leaders
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/28/white-house-defends-decision-not-to-punish-saudi-crown-prince-mbs.html

Here;s NYTimes opinion writer Kristof:
President Biden Lets a Saudi Murderer Walk
The crown prince killed my friend Jamal Khashoggi, and we do next to nothing.
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136697.8260#quickreply

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #8269 on: March 01, 2021, 04:55:20 pm »

here's what pro-Biden CNN says:

I don't know what CNN has said about Biden and Saudi relations. Your link is the same CNBC article that you linked to previously.

I'm also not sure how it's relevant to my posts which were regarding your contention that nothing has changed in U.S.—Saudi relations since Biden took office. Clearly, a number of things have changed. I've already pointed out some of those changes.

I haven't seen anyone, myself included, claiming that Biden sanctioned the Crown Prince. That much is obvious to everyone.

However several other actions were taken, unlike the previous administration. You seem oblivious to those facts.

Whether those actions went far enough is a matter of opinion. That Trump did nothing, other than cast doubt on whether there was any involvement by the Saudi government or the Crown Prince, is a fact.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 05:03:07 pm by TechTalk »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #8270 on: March 01, 2021, 05:07:36 pm »

As Lord Palmerston famously argued, great powers have neither permanent friends nor permanent enemies, only permanent interests.*

But especially since World War II, the United States has tended to define its foreign policy interests broadly to encompass not just military security and economic advantage, but also the advancement of democracy, adherence to universal standards of human rights, the development and support of international institutions, and, especially lately, multilateral cooperation to respond to non-political worldwide problems such as climate change.

Although the specifics and emphasis tended to change somewhat between different presidential administrations, the general approach remained fairly consistent until the Trump Administration, anomalous in this as well as so many other respects, when officials with little experience and often rather limited intelligence reverted to what might charitably be described as a Nineteenth Century view of international relations—at least to the extent that it wasn't completely incoherent.

Biden and his appointees, supported by career officials in the civilian government agencies and the military, are restoring the postwar consensus that the interests of the United States should be defined broadly, and that foreign policies should be crafted accordingly.  That doesn't mean they will always get it right—no government of any country ever does—but at least the process is likely to have a rational basis once again.

———
*"We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies.  Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow."

   — Speech, House of Commons, 1848
There's not a dimes worth of difference between Trump and Biden decisions.  Both presidents continued to do business with a murderer.  Arguing that Biden is doing it with thoughtfulness and high level consultations with foreign policy experts only makes it worse to many people.  It wasn't some off the cuff decision by a real estate salesman but went to considered in-depth policy consideration putting America's moral values in jeopardy.

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #8271 on: March 01, 2021, 05:18:53 pm »

There's not a dimes worth of difference between Trump and Biden decisions.

Pure baloney produced by willful blindness.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #8272 on: March 01, 2021, 05:19:18 pm »

I don't know what CNN has said about Biden and Saudi relations. Your link is the same CNBC article that you linked to previously.

I'm also not sure how it's relevant to my posts which were regarding your contention that nothing has changed in U.S.—Saudi relations since Biden took office. Clearly, a number of things have changed. I've already pointed out some of those changes.

I haven't seen anyone, myself included, claiming that Biden sanctioned the Crown Prince. That much is obvious to everyone.

However several other actions were taken, unlike the previous administration. You seem oblivious to those facts.

Whether those actions went far enough is a matter of opinion. That Trump did nothing, other than cast doubt on whether there was any involvement by the Saudi government or the Crown Prince, is a fact.

Biden's doing exactly what Trump did to Putin's underlings but not to Putin.  Same difference.  Trump also added sanctions to Russia.  Like I said. There's not a dimes worth of difference.

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #8273 on: March 01, 2021, 05:23:31 pm »

And moving from Alan’s baloney produced by willful blindness.

Trump Ally Sidney Powell Loses Final Shot at Overturning Election
The petitions for writs of mandamus are denied,” said Monday’s ruling. And with that, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down Trump-allied lawyer Sidney Powell’s last remaining attempt to overturn the 2020 presidential election by challenging the results in Arizona and Wisconsin.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #8274 on: March 01, 2021, 05:27:57 pm »

Biden's doing exactly what Trump did to Putin's underlings but not to Putin.  Same difference.  Trump also added sanctions to Russia.

Flailing about blindly in the wilderness without a sense of direction save for misdirection. Try not to fall down too many rabbit holes on your journey, as you'll likely find yourself alone.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 05:42:18 pm by TechTalk »
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John Camp

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #8275 on: March 01, 2021, 05:51:16 pm »

How about a few predictions? What will the Covid virus death total be in the US when we finally fully open, possibly next summer or fall. (Or, if you're not from the US, give us the current tool and your country, and what you think it will be at full opening.)

I'm thinking somewhere between 575,000 and 600,000 in the US.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #8276 on: March 01, 2021, 06:01:22 pm »

Of course.  I'm just trying to show the hypocracy of many here and on the left and democrats.  All the arguments of how terrible Trump was because he maintained relations with some seedy allies like the Saudis or acted against adversaries like Iran.  Hopefully, Biden will recognized what's in America's interest, ignore domestic politics, and keep intact policies established by Trump that are still of value to us.

People didn't criticize Trump for maintaining relations with seedy dictators. They criticized him for licking their arses and denying they did anything wrong, and in Putin's case, taking his word about something over Trump's own intelligence agencies.

And I don't know what you mean by hypocrisy. When people criticized Trump and supported Biden, I don't recall anyone saying that Biden was the new messiah and perfection personified. You're putting words in their mouths. If he does something wrong or stupid, CNN and others are free to tear him a new one. That's what the free press is for, which you seem to think is a problem. Anyway, people aren't put into office for the purpose of getting the approval of the press.

In the case of Cuomo and any sexual allegations, if his behaviour is found wanting then they should hang him out to dry. He's just another politician. Judging from past behaviour, you're the only person on this thread who has displayed unbelievable loyalty to your boy to what I consider a bizarre extent. It's as if you think Trump can do no wrong. On a few occasions, you have even tried to taunt Canadian contributors with insults about Trudeau. Why would you think we care? He's just the guy in the job at the moment, he's done good things and some dumb things, nothing new there. One day he'll be gone and there will be a new one to take his place.

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #8277 on: March 01, 2021, 06:10:22 pm »

How about a few predictions? What will the Covid virus death total be in the US when we finally fully open, possibly next summer or fall. (Or, if you're not from the US, give us the current tool and your country, and what you think it will be at full opening.)

I'm thinking somewhere between 575,000 and 600,000 in the US.

According to Worldometer, the US is at 526,000 deaths so at first glance 600,000 seems low. But if vaccine deployment accelerates and we avoid the worst of a third wave then yeah, 600,000 by summer, maybe 700,000 to 750,000 by the end of the year for the US.

The advancements in biochemistry and vaccine development are nothing short of astonishing. Research in the past decade or two made this possible. What I predict is that people, in general, will NOT recognize that heroic work because people, in general, do not appreciate or even understand science. Science and technology is probably the greatest single influence on our lives but most people view scientists as geeks in lab coats. To the extent that the US (and Canada to some extent) is overpricing education these days, we're choking off the very thing we need more of. It is a strategic error.

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Chris Kern

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #8278 on: March 01, 2021, 06:13:05 pm »

How about a few predictions? What will the Covid virus death total be in the US when we finally fully open, possibly next summer or fall.

I think the number of variables militates against anything more accurate than pure conjecture: how rapidly will the population be vaccinated, will significant proportions of the population refuse to be vaccinated, will people who have been vaccinated continue to observe the recommended safety protocols, what proportion of the population has acquired durable immunity from prior infection, how effective will newer SARS-CoV-2 variants be at evading existing immune reactions, and to what extent will state governors want or be able to resist the political pressure to "open up" too soon and too much?  And probably that doesn't exhaust the list.

LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #8279 on: March 01, 2021, 06:18:44 pm »

How about a few predictions? What will the Covid virus death total be in the US when we finally fully open, possibly next summer or fall. (Or, if you're not from the US, give us the current tool and your country, and what you think it will be at full opening.)

I'm thinking somewhere between 575,000 and 600,000 in the US.

Current death toll is 527,000 with about 1,250 new deaths per day. Assuming a gradual slowdown to an average count of 1,000/day and loosening of the restrictions, the total death count by end of May will exceed 600,000 and reach 650,000 by early fall. Hopefully, the majority of population will be vaccinated by then and we won't see a third wave. 
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