Pages: 1 ... 295 296 [297] 298 299 ... 413   Go Down

Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 100858 times)

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3228
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5920 on: January 18, 2021, 01:40:10 pm »

My point frankly was directed at our Canadian friends here who couldn't wait to get rid of Trump. Now it seems, in his first day in office, Biden will be sticking it to them.

Which Canadians? There are plenty who didn't want the pipeline to go ahead.
Logged
--
Robert

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3228
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5921 on: January 18, 2021, 01:45:57 pm »

No bureaucrat or group of bureaucrats, especially those politically motivated, can foresee what's best for an economy.  The invisible hand of a free market is a better determinant.  And yes, I've read the theories on both sides.

A command economy was the way the Soviets did it and it ruined their economy and destroyed their system.  Currently, America, and GB, and the EU, are allowing their deficit spending and printing destroy our economies. We've allowed them to pick commercial favorites.  We're going to rue the day we let our governments have so much power.

You're reading history pretty selectively.

As for your beliefs about free markets and competition in private industry, those things work really well in first year economics textbooks. If you think that the US government policies (at all levels) don't have a hand in the economy, that's an odd position to take, is all I can say.

Anyway, it was only a few months that you yourself on these forums wanted governments to intercede in the free market to make sure that some strategic products, like PPE, be produced inside your own borders so that you wouldn't have to be dependent on other countries. Better make up your mind.
Logged
--
Robert

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4457
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5922 on: January 18, 2021, 02:04:01 pm »

Anybody find it ironic that the proponent of a free market lives in a 55+ community?

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3228
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5923 on: January 18, 2021, 02:28:29 pm »

Now this is what I would call a smart move on Trump's part, https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/534692-giuliani-not-expected-to-be-part-of-trump-defense-at-impeachment.

Leaving aside any deficiencies in Rudy's past legal performances, so far as I know Trump hasn't paid Rudy yet, so it might be a bit risky retaining him for Impeachment 2, the Sequel.
Logged
--
Robert

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4457
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5924 on: January 18, 2021, 02:59:45 pm »

Now this is what I would call a smart move on Trump's part, https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/534692-giuliani-not-expected-to-be-part-of-trump-defense-at-impeachment.

Leaving aside any deficiencies in Rudy's past legal performances, so far as I know Trump hasn't paid Rudy yet, so it might be a bit risky retaining him for Impeachment 2, the Sequel.

"Giuliani advocated "trial by combat" at the January 6th rally and later said "I was referencing the kind of trial that took place for Tyrion in that very famous documentary about fictitious medieval England," Giuliani told the reporter Brett Samuels."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/rudy-giuliani-says-his-trial-by-combat-comment-during-trumps-january-6-rally-was-a-game-of-thrones-reference-not-a-call-to-violence/ar-BB1cHQrK?ocid=uxbndlbing

Anybody here think Game of Thrones was a "famous documentary about fictitious medieval England"? At best the statement is oxymoronic, with an emphasis on the moronic part.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 06:53:33 pm by faberryman »
Logged

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 4460
    • advantica blog
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5925 on: January 18, 2021, 03:04:44 pm »

Maybe Canada should just not be producing heavy oil that it has so much of?  It's environmentally very negative, and the oil industry doesn't have a great record.

(Canadian gas was headed for China before the Russians shot down an airliner over Ukraine, which led to a warming of Sino-Soviet relations and a pipeline from Russia to China. Strange how one thing leads to another)

My point was that transportation of liquids and gas in a pipeline is cleaner, safer and more environmentally friendly than moving it thousands of kilometers by trucks.
Not only in the north-south direction but also east to west. And not only for the raw oil, but also for refined fuel, Canadian whiskey and maple syrup.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 03:21:43 pm by LesPalenik »
Logged

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 4460
    • advantica blog
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5926 on: January 18, 2021, 03:24:08 pm »

My point frankly was directed at our Canadian friends here who couldn't wait to get rid of Trump. Now it seems, in his first day in office, Biden will be sticking it to them.

Nor could you wait sticking it to them.  ;)
Logged

chez

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2338
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5927 on: January 18, 2021, 03:53:56 pm »

You could make the argument that with a strategic product like oil, maybe Canada would be better off having our own refining capacity rather than sending the crude to the Gulf coast refineries. It's not clear how Canada benefits by letting them reap the value-added profits. This is a bit like all those Covid PPEs that we were all scrambling to get a few months ago because no one was making them here any more. Sometimes, short-term "inefficiencies" are worth incurring for longer term benefits.

Canada developing their own refinery ship has long sailed. Way too costly and take too much time in this dying industry. The refineries should have been built decades ago.
Logged

chez

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2338
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5928 on: January 18, 2021, 03:58:24 pm »

Also, it's not up to the government to decide what are the best business decisions. They're not on the Board of Directors. Government is inefficient at making these decisions.  The best decisions economically are made by the free market - millions of decisions made every day by people like us define the best, cheapest, and most effective practices.  When the government makes the decision by playing favorites, they distort the market.  Things cost more and become very inefficient. 

But this is all politics.  Elections have consequences.

But without government involvement, it would be a free for all. No regulations regarding environmental impact ( big business gives a rats ass about the impacts on their business...all they want is money.), no regulations regarding worker safety, no regulations about pay etc...
Logged

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3228
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5929 on: January 18, 2021, 04:43:05 pm »

Canada developing their own refinery ship has long sailed. Way too costly and take too much time in this dying industry. The refineries should have been built decades ago.

That's probably true enough. A few years ago, Alberta's bitumen was supposed to the engine of the Canadian economy and there's no reason to assume that the price of a barrel of oil will stay depressed forever. Still, the energy industry is undergoing massive changes, it probably won't be the same again. If we're going to globalize industry sectors for reasons of "efficiency", it's kind of important not to elect whackadoodles who don't understand how the world works.

I kind of lost track of all the proposed pipelines. Are they still being considered in anticipation of Alberta bitumen eventually returning to profitability. The rule of thumb that I've always assumed is that a world price of about $100 per barrel is needed for that.
Logged
--
Robert

John Camp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2142
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5930 on: January 18, 2021, 06:48:39 pm »

The big question about the pipeline is why have it at all? The only people who need to transport Canadian oil are the people who own the rights to it -- I doubt that it will much benefit Canada in general, and the world doesn't need it, at the moment, anyway. The world is awash in oil. Actually, one cynical reason for Biden to block the pipeline is that Canadian oil would compete with North Dakota oil, which, at the moment, is supine. USA! USA!

The "dying industry" comment. The oil industry is dying, and I expect it will become largely redundant sometime in the 22nd century. At the moment, the US electric car industry has reached the point of producing about 5% of cars (plug-in and hybrid.) The rest depend on oil. The new power plants being built to provide the electricity to run those electric cars run on oil and natural gas. Wind and solar are about 12% of production, and are running up against some limits (not enough economic wind and sun in places where transmission is efficient) and political constraints (NIMBY and environmental activism.) The fact is, oil can be very cheap if you ignore the environmental problems it creates. And cheap power will be critical in places like India and Russia and western China for a long time. Oil is fungible, and the world market really doesn't care where it comes from.

Capitalism isn't an ideology, it's a technique for raising money. Socialist/communist countries have found it to be quite a useful technique in building their economies (China, Vietnam.) What's really at issue is the tissue of "conservative" policies which do amount to an ideology that deplores governmental intervention in private industry and personal privilege. The problem is that these conservative policies too often don't recognize reasonable limits on the rights of persons and industries to do what they please. The result is that rich companies like McDonalds poor-mouth about having to pay even a marginally livable wage to employees. The average crew member at McDonalds makes about $9 an hour in the US; most aren't given 40-hour weeks. At that rate, a crew member would qualify for food stamps in most and maybe all states.
Logged

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2330
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5931 on: January 19, 2021, 04:57:57 am »


The "dying industry" comment. The oil industry is dying, and I expect it will become largely redundant sometime in the 22nd century. At the moment, the US electric car industry has reached the point of producing about 5% of cars (plug-in and hybrid.) The rest depend on oil. The new power plants being built to provide the electricity to run those electric cars run on oil and natural gas. Wind and solar are about 12% of production, and are running up against some limits (not enough economic wind and sun in places where transmission is efficient) and political constraints (NIMBY and environmental activism.) The fact is, oil can be very cheap if you ignore the environmental problems it creates. And cheap power will be critical in places like India and Russia and western China for a long time. Oil is fungible, and the world market really doesn't care where it comes from.


The US risks being left behind - sale of petrol cars will be ended in the UK by 2030 and we already produce over 1/3 of our electricity from wind power.  Interesting to see how this plays out !
Logged

kers

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3707
    • Pieter Kers
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5932 on: January 19, 2021, 06:58:26 am »

But without government involvement, it would be a free for all. No regulations regarding environmental impact ( big business gives a rats ass about the impacts on their business...all they want is money.), no regulations regarding worker safety, no regulations about pay etc...

How to tackle Covid in a pure capitalistic system?
No lockdowns; hospitals are filled with people that can afford it. The others  ... bad luck. Exponential growth of the infected.
Much more casualties than you have now.
Vaccins and health care for the people with money only; to the highest bidder. None working vaccins are sold- no regulation...
No compensation for the people out of a job, because of illness. A minority is doing good business, the rest has a serious problem.
Old work-structures that run the society are torn down because of the virus and will not recover once it is past.
More crime because many people have not enough money to eat and shelter. More police to counter the crime.
More immigrant workers to replace the ill...
etc
Logged

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4457
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5933 on: January 19, 2021, 07:56:04 am »

What a fine collection of Trump supporters.

Members Of Right-Wing Militias, Extremist Groups Are Latest Charged In Capitol Siege

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/19/958240531/members-of-right-wing-militias-extremist-groups-are-latest-charged-in-capitol-si

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4457
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5934 on: January 19, 2021, 08:09:04 am »

Mike Lindell, aka the MyPillow Guy, business is being adversely affected by his support of Trump and election fraud conspiracy theories. He was in the Oval Office trying out some new ones on Trump just last week. As you might expect, he claims he is being canceled, but in truth a lot of people just don't want to do business with the guy knowing the people, organizations, and causes he supports.

MyPillow Products Will No Longer Be Sold by These Companies

https://www.newsweek.com/mypillow-products-no-longer-stocked-these-companies-1562510

Of course, even if you are a Trump supporting conspiracy theorist you might want to avoid doing business with the guy. The Better Business Bureau gives his company an F rating.

https://www.bbb.org/us/mn/chaska/profile/pillows/my-pillow-inc-0704-96152336
« Last Edit: January 19, 2021, 09:56:38 am by faberryman »
Logged

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4457
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5935 on: January 19, 2021, 08:24:28 am »

Rand Paul, a libertarian and nominal Republican, predicts that if Republicans vote to convict Trump in the Senate trial, they will lose one-third of the Republican voters. That's a lot of people who are members of the Trump cult. Where would they go? Just stop voting?

Rand Paul's dire prediction for the GOP

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/18/politics/rand-paul-senate-conviction-trump-gop/index.html

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4457
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5936 on: January 19, 2021, 08:48:47 am »

This ought to draw the ire of a few Trump supporters.

Biden selects transgender doctor Rachel Levine as assistant health secretary

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/01/19/rachel-levine-transgender-biden-hhs-pick/
« Last Edit: January 19, 2021, 09:08:07 am by faberryman »
Logged

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2330
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5937 on: January 19, 2021, 09:00:15 am »

This ought to draw the ire of a few Trump supporters.

Biden selects transgender doctor Rachel Levine as assistant health secretary

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/01/19/rachel-levine-transgender-biden-hhs-pick/

There is one who is firing up hs typewriter even as we speak ........
Logged

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4457
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5938 on: January 19, 2021, 09:11:30 am »

There is one who is firing up hs typewriter even as we speak ........

I know. The usual argument is this is just Biden playing identity politics. If there are a number of qualified candidates, why should a white male be the default choice? Isn't that playing identity politics as well?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2021, 09:49:47 am by faberryman »
Logged

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4457
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #5939 on: January 19, 2021, 09:44:21 am »

Here's something you may not have thought about:

Los Angeles lifts air-quality limits for cremations amid a backlog of bodies caused by COVID-19

https://www.foxnews.com/health/los-angeles-lifts-air-quality-limits-for-cremations-amid-backlog-of-bodies-caused-by-covid-19
« Last Edit: January 19, 2021, 09:54:41 am by faberryman »
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 295 296 [297] 298 299 ... 413   Go Up