Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Robert Roaldi]

That some people seek to excuse or explain away a fascist president and sedition by his supporters, speaks volumes about those individuals' concern for truth and democracy.

They regard this as culture war, not governance. Once you frame the issue as quasi-religion in that way, all bets are off. 

[Robert Roaldi]

So where was the Capitol Police?  What orders were given before the demonstrations and by who?  If a bunch of stupid demonstrators armed only with anger can get into Congress so easily, what does that say about security against a real threat?  Heads should roll.

That's an interesting point of view. We'll see if you change your mind about this when more information emerges.

[Alan Klein]

That some people seek to excuse or explain away a fascist president and sedition by his supporters, speaks volumes about those individuals' concern for truth and democracy.

You're being hyperbolic.  Trump hasn't violated any laws complaining about illegal elections and filing lawsuits.  The courts have thrown out his claims.  They went nowhere.  The Democrats have done worse even throwing out Republican electors from Ohio.  Neither side is being fascist.  They're following the law and the constitution.

While trespass and interrupting Congress in process are illegal, it's not sedition. Civil disobedience and complaining about the government have long histories in the US. 

[Robert Roaldi]

You're being hyperbolic.  Trump hasn't violated any laws complaining about illegal elections and filing lawsuits.  The courts have thrown out his claims.  They went nowhere.  The Democrats have done worse even throwing out Republican electors from Ohio.  Neither side is being fascist.  They're following the law and the constitution.

While trespass and interrupting Congress in process are illegal, it's not sedition. Civil disobedience and complaining about the government have long histories in the US.

That's not how you characterized BLM demonstrations.

[Manoli]

"I know this jamiroquoi wannabe muthafucka is kinda funny but his tattoo is the symbol of Wotanism, which is a Nazi/Odin occult that believes Jews control the government, the Holocaust is exaggerated and champions the 14/88 slogan. He’s a real card-carrying Nazi."

Now rumoured that Proud Boys are planning a visit to NYC on the morning of Sunday, January 10th. Be warned, stay safe and ideally, stay away.

[TechTalk]

The Democrats have done worse even throwing out Republican electors from Ohio.

Today I can't be bothered with taking the bait you like to lay out with your phony-facts and false history.

You're being hyperbolic.  Trump hasn't violated any laws complaining about illegal elections and filing lawsuits.  The courts have thrown out his claims.  They went nowhere.  The Democrats have done worse even throwing out Republican electors from Ohio.  Neither side is being fascist.  They're following the law and the constitution.

While trespass and interrupting Congress in process are illegal, it's not sedition. Civil disobedience and complaining about the government have long histories in the US.

Pathetic excuses like yours ring hollow today.

[Alan Klein]

"I know this jamiroquoi wannabe muthafucka is kinda funny but his tattoo is the symbol of Wotanism, which is a Nazi/Odin occult that believes Jews control the government, the Holocaust is exaggerated and champions the 14/88 slogan. He’s a real card-carrying Nazi."

Now rumoured that Proud Boys are planning a visit to NYC on the morning of January 10th. Be warned, stay safe.

It's the socialist and communists with power and influence you should fear.  Not dopes like this.   

[Alan Klein]

Meanwhile, there's another 787,000 first time unemployed last week.  It should be worse next week now that the holidays are over.  Businesses that were hanging on for last-minute holiday sales will now close as buying shrinks to the New Year blues. The dollar printing will continue non-stop after Jan 20th when the Democrats take over.  The Republicans are pikers when it comes to deficit spending.  The Dems will show them how it's really done.   
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/initial-jobless-claims-week-ended-jan-2-2021-coronavirus-pandemic-191630119.html

[Robert Roaldi]

"I know this jamiroquoi wannabe muthafucka is kinda funny but his tattoo is the symbol of Wotanism, which is a Nazi/Odin occult that believes Jews control the government, the Holocaust is exaggerated and champions the 14/88 slogan. He’s a real card-carrying Nazi."

Now rumoured that Proud Boys are planning a visit to NYC on the morning of January 10th. Be warned, stay safe.

I look at that photo and I think, how can that happen in 2020? How can 10th century pagan/ritual/magical/occult fantasy be internalized in someone raised in the last quarter century? There are TV channels full of educational material, libraries full of history, even youtube sites created by non-crazies. Most of it freely accessible. The human accumulation of knowledge does not get deposited into an individual's brain by osmosis. Each kid needs to be taught all those concepts one at a time and every generation needs to repeat the process. The guy in the photo deserved better.

[faberryman]

It's the socialist and communists with power and influence you should fear.  Not dopes like this.   

I know you think anyone to the left of Barry Goldwater is a socialist, but communists? Maybe you could be specific about who these communists with power and influence are so we will know who to fear. Perhaps you have a list of names in your briefcase?

[Manoli]

Trump hasn't violated any laws ...
While trespass and interrupting Congress in process are illegal, it's not sedition. Civil disobedience and complaining about the government have long histories in the US. 

Be in no doubt that Donald Trump is the author of this lethal attack on the heart of American democracy. His lies fed the grievance, his disregard for the constitution focused it on Congress and his demagoguery lit the fuse.

[LesPalenik]

So where was the Capitol Police?  What orders were given before the demonstrations and by who?  If a bunch of stupid demonstrators armed only with anger can get into Congress so easily, what does that say about security against a real threat?  Heads should roll.

That's a very good question. I suspect that they were instructed by someone in command to be nice and show the tourists around the Capitol building.

[Manoli]

It is almost certainly the case Republicans will have a 52 seat majority in the Senate, and I was not expecting them to pick up seats in the House.  This will be the first time since 1887 that a Dem would be sworn in without his party controlling congress.  This means the entire Biden agenda is dead on arrival.   

God I have never enjoyed an election result so much.

Joe, you still there … ?

[Alan Klein]

That's a very good question. I suspect that they were instructed by someone in command to be nice and show the tourists around the Capitol building.

Well then.  They should have opened the doors instead of making them climb over the walls.  What kind of hospitality is that?

[faberryman]

Well then.  They should have opened the doors instead of making them climb over the walls.  What kind of hospitality is that?

Go ahead. Trivialize what happened yesterday. Nothing to see here, move along.

[LesPalenik]

Well then.  They should have opened the doors instead of making them climb over the walls.  What kind of hospitality is that?

The problem was not the police response time when they were requested to come, but that this was not anticipated. If the police had stood in front of the building like at the time of BLM protests, none of the thugs could have entered the building. The government would have also avoided a large repair and clean-up bill.

[Robert Roaldi]

The problem was not the police response time when they were requested to come, but that this was not anticipated. If the police had stood in front of the building like at the time of BLM protests, none of the thugs could have entered the building. The government would have also avoided a large repair and clean-up bill.

Nooooo, don't say that. Alan will now claim that it could have been a black flag operation, where Democratic party operatives kept the extra police away to encourage the carnage to make Trump and his "supporters" look bad.

[Robert Roaldi]

I don't want to paint the world bleaker than we already think it might be, but maybe we need a break from the usual plot, https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/plastic-pollution-serbia-1.5863254.

A friend of mine put it quite eloquently. We have to stop thinking of "throwing things away". Some of those things don't go away.

[Alan Klein]

The problem was not the police response time when they were requested to come, but that this was not anticipated. If the police had stood in front of the building like at the time of BLM protests, none of the thugs could have entered the building. The government would have also avoided a large repair and clean-up bill.

I'm not excusing anyone. But, when the police aren't around, people often get stupid and become a mob.  So where were the police?  Not the National Guard. Just the regular Capitol Police?   You mean they knew there was going to be a demonstration.  And no one made arrangements to have the police there?  Was that deliberate?

[faberryman]

Nooooo, don't say that. Alan will now claim that it could have been a black flag operation, where Democratic party operatives kept the extra police away to encourage the carnage to make Trump and his "supporters" look bad.

He already has:

It may have been the Democrats who "let them in" to embarrass Trump and the Republicans.  After all, the Washington DC police who protect the capital is run by democrats. On the other hand, it could have just been normal Democrat incompetence.  After all, they knew there would be demonstrations.  These are common in Washington.  So where were the DC police?