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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 470694 times)

Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #860 on: November 11, 2020, 12:47:33 pm »

Semi-related, according to Bill Kristol (traditional conservative, anti-Trump), "...A sign of the loyalty-oath atmosphere now at DOD: When Jim Anderson was fired yesterday as Acting Under Secretary for Policy, he was given a "clap-out" as he left the building. The WH called to request names of any political appointees who joined in so they could be fired."

Payback can be a bitch.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 12:51:16 pm by Craig Lamson »
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #861 on: November 11, 2020, 12:48:52 pm »

This idea, that there is no data to show masks "do something" is idiotic. Masks have been worn in hospitals and elsewhere for well over 100 years, of course they do something useful as protection to others. Only those deep inside the unreality bubble of alternative facts would suggest they don't do anything and make them political. They might as well ask for 'facts' that the Earth is round and the sun revolves around it, that gravity exists. When provided actual facts and data, overwhelming accepted by many experts (and they are not), they will push back and deny these facts. The same folks, reading the National Enquirer or some bogus web site, believe father Cruz aided in the JFK assassination, Clinton is a pedophile and Democrats eat babies.

Yet some believe climate change and Covid-19 and masks are a hoax. Pathetic ignorance. 

There is more than enough evidence from scientists and others that masks do something quite useful, they are damn helpful in preventing the infectious spread from Covid-19 and other airborne disease. NO ONE said they are 100% perfection toward protection. Even if some are a mere 20% effective, that's 20% better than no mask. Dismissing mask wearing due to ignorance and inability to accept what they do is simply a sign of trollish stupidity and an agenda of posting to a result of CWOBaT (colossal waste of bandwidth and time). They might as well ask for proof of Gravity and then as their confirmation bias must, they will not  accept the science and data provided. Don't feed trolls, then when they don't get the attention they desire, they will disappear. Some are asking questions expecting data along with opinions. Some are asking questions that no amount of data will provide anything but push back and a lack of acceptance of fact. The Earth IS flat inside their unreality bubble.

There's no data that suggests massive voter fraud that would alter the difference in the votes from last week. A new Politico-Morning Consult poll found that the number of Republicans who now say they don’t believe the 2020 election was free and fair has doubled since the election, moving from 35 percent before the election to 70 percent today. Absurd. Worse is the absurdity that masks do nothing or don't protect those wearing them. Such attitudes are best summed up with this reflection:

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” Martin Luther King

The idiotic idea that a mask is political and not useful is very dangerous. To those who are around those who refuse to wear them. It's as dangerous as those who tell us they refuse to stop at red lights because doing so affects their personal freedom. Absurd. Dangerous ignorance and conscientious stupidity. You can't fix stupid. Don't try, ignore.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 01:02:33 pm by digitaldog »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #862 on: November 11, 2020, 12:48:55 pm »

Semi-related, according to Bill Kristol (traditional conservative, anti-Trump), "...A sign of the loyalty-oath atmosphere now at DOD: When Jim Anderson was fired yesterday as Acting Under Secretary for Policy, he was given a "clap-out" as he left the building. The WH called to request names of any political appointees who joined in so they could be fired."


WMD Neocon Kristol got us into the Iraq War which Trump opposed.  I wouldn't use him to support my theories.

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #863 on: November 11, 2020, 12:51:55 pm »

about wearing a mask;
This photo is from 1918- Spanish Flew
People didn't want to wear masks then either.  A cop shot one of them.  There's also objections today in Europe.  Who's fault is that?

James Clark

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #864 on: November 11, 2020, 12:54:38 pm »

Payback can be a bitch.

 ;D Nothing says "America First" like purging the institutional knowledge of everyone at DoD that's not a total knob-gobbling sychophant.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #865 on: November 11, 2020, 01:07:52 pm »

;D Nothing says "America First" like purging the institutional knowledge of everyone at DoD that's not a total knob-gobbling sychophant.

They are political appointees that are in question.  Fair game and should the election hold for Biden they are gone anyway.
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Chris Kern

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #866 on: November 11, 2020, 01:08:01 pm »

I find that our KN-95 masks clog up my nose and I find it hard to breathe after twenty minutes or so. . . .

Respirator face masks (U.S. N95 standard, Chinese KN95 standard, European FFP2 standard), when fitted properly with no gaps around the edges, do indeed make breathing more difficult.  There's no way around that: the point of this style of mask is to protect the wearer from large virus droplets and small ones (aerosols), which requires very fine filtration.

It's much easier to breathe through surgical and cloth face masks, which fit more loosely and provide less airflow resistance.  However these are principally designed to protect other people in the presence of the wearer from pathogens that the wearer may be spreading.  When both an infected person and an uninfected person wear this type of mask, the risk to the uninfected person is significantly reduced.  Moreover, the latest guidance from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports that an uninfected person may indeed receive at least some protection just from wearing this type of mask:

Quote
Experimental and epidemiological data support community masking to reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2. The prevention benefit of masking is derived from the combination of source control and personal protection for the mask wearer. The relationship between source control and personal protection is likely complementary and possibly synergistic, so that individual benefit increases with increasing community mask use

So it appears that when everybody in your vicinity is wearing a face mask, your risk of infection is relatively low and you can (pun intended) breathe more easily even if you're only wearing a surgical or cloth face mask.  However, if there is a possibility you may be in close proximity to an infected person who isn't wearing a mask, a respirator provides a much high level of protection while making breathing more difficult.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #867 on: November 11, 2020, 01:12:34 pm »

I find that our KN-95 masks clog up my nose and I find it hard to breathe after twenty minutes or so.  Then my nose runs and I have to blow it so I can breathe.  It's very annoying,  I could try clothe type masks.  But they're not as good, supposedly.  You shouldn't assume everyone is like you.

When did I say that everyone is like me?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #868 on: November 11, 2020, 02:01:16 pm »

Respirator face masks (U.S. N95 standard, Chinese KN95 standard, European FFP2 standard), when fitted properly with no gaps around the edges, do indeed make breathing more difficult.  There's no way around that: the point of this style of mask is to protect the wearer from large virus droplets and small ones (aerosols), which requires very fine filtration.

It's much easier to breathe through surgical and cloth face masks, which fit more loosely and provide less airflow resistance.  However these are principally designed to protect other people in the presence of the wearer from pathogens that the wearer may be spreading.  When both an infected person and an uninfected person wear this type of mask, the risk to the uninfected person is significantly reduced.  Moreover, the latest guidance from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports that an uninfected person may indeed receive at least some protection just from wearing this type of mask:

So it appears that when everybody in your vicinity is wearing a face mask, your risk of infection is relatively low and you can (pun intended) breathe more easily even if you're only wearing a surgical or cloth face mask.  However, if there is a possibility you may be in close proximity to an infected person who isn't wearing a mask, a respirator provides a much high level of protection while making breathing more difficult.
The KN95's I have from China do not have a built in respirator.  But they do fit pretty tight.  I bought them directly from China through a camera distributor when the Covid got bad in the early Spring.  Years ago when I was in construction I tried a N95 mask.  I think from 3M corporation. It was impossible for me to use and I threw them out.  I got more air breathing underwater.

I feel the KN95 masks provide better protection from getting infected for me.  So I try to tolerate the breathing.  Basically I use it for short periods like getting a gas fill up, or a Big Mac at a drive through.  I'm running out so will have to switch to cloth soon.  I have a couple of types.  One came with replaceable paper-type filters that slip in and out on the inside of the mask.  I have no idea how much better protection they provide.  Does anyone know? 

Chris Kern

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #869 on: November 11, 2020, 02:02:45 pm »

Anecdotally, passengers on some European airline flights are being asked to remove N95 type masks and were offered the 'blue' surgical masks instead - specifically, as you say, because though the N95 masks protect the wearer, they do little to stop the spread of aerosols should the wearer him/herself be infected.

Assuming the airline or airport personnel know what they are doing, they presumably only are requesting that passengers not wear special-purpose N95 masks with plastic exhaust valves, sold here in the States in home improvement stores as "dust masks."  The one-way valves make exhaling easier and reduce fogging of eyeglasses or industrial goggles; they release unfiltered air into the wearer's environment.  But the N95, KN95, and FFP2 masks without these valves that are sold for protection against the coronavirus don't have exhaust valves and they filter air in both directions.

James Clark

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #870 on: November 11, 2020, 02:19:20 pm »

They are political appointees that are in question.  Fair game and should the election hold for Biden they are gone anyway.

Why do it though?
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Manoli

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #871 on: November 11, 2020, 02:48:36 pm »

Assuming the airline or airport personnel know what they are doing, they presumably only are requesting that passengers not wear special-purpose N95 masks with plastic exhaust valves, sold here in the States in home improvement stores as "dust masks."  The one-way valves make exhaling easier and reduce fogging of eyeglasses or industrial goggles; they release unfiltered air into the wearer's environment.  But the N95, KN95, and FFP2 masks without these valves that are sold for protection against the coronavirus don't have exhaust valves and they filter air in both directions.

Well, without going into the subtleties of examining each N95 mask (its a decision by the airlines not the personnel) I'm guessing that the decision is /was based on 'keep it simple'. In both the instances I witnessed, it presented no problem as the passengers were offered, free-of-charge, the 'blue 'surgical' masks. All harmonious and polite.
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John Camp

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #872 on: November 11, 2020, 03:22:08 pm »

In other news, and this I find to be both amusing and scary at the same time, Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel is now heading up Biden C-19 team. 

If you are wondering why this is scary, well a few years back Ezekiel Emanuel penned a whole article in which he argued people should not live past 75. 

Why I Hope to Die at 75

According to him, 75 is the best age to die at and it would be a net positive for society if we just let those over 75 whom "... are no longer remembered as vibrant and engaged but as feeble, ineffectual, even pathetic" (just think of Joe Biden) just die without trying to save them.  We should instead save those resources for younger more vibrant persons. 

He even went so far as to write if you're over 75 "... Flu shots are out. Certainly if there were to be a flu pandemic, a younger person who has yet to live a complete life ought to get the vaccine or any antiviral drugs."

So, Biden just hired someone to oversee a task force for a virus that kills mainly people over 75 who once argued that during a pandemic people over 75 should not get a vaccine because they already lead a complete life.  This is kind of a conflict of interest, don't you think?

Not everybody that Biden hires is going to be smart. That's a stupid article, which makes an assumption -- that everybody hits the wall around 75, which is absurd. There was at least one well-known Wall Street finance guy who was still driving to work when he was 101. I don't know how long he lasted, but why should be lose 25 years of productive life while some 25-year-old junkie gets a pass? And why would Emmanuel assume that we have to ration vaccine? We make millions of doses of flu vaccine annually, and Pfizer says it should be able to produce 1.3 billion doses of vaccine next year. In fact, when I read the article, I sort of assumed that Emmanuel was looking for controversy or maybe just a paycheck. If I were Biden, this kind of thinking would disqualify a candidate for any serious medically related post, not for thinking it, but just for the ammunition it gives to the cranks.
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John Camp

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #873 on: November 11, 2020, 03:26:42 pm »

Assuming the airline or airport personnel know what they are doing, they presumably only are requesting that passengers not wear special-purpose N95 masks with plastic exhaust valves, sold here in the States in home improvement stores as "dust masks."  The one-way valves make exhaling easier and reduce fogging of eyeglasses or industrial goggles; they release unfiltered air into the wearer's environment.  But the N95, KN95, and FFP2 masks without these valves that are sold for protection against the coronavirus don't have exhaust valves and they filter air in both directions.

I actually have some of those 3M N95s with valves, that I bought a couple years ago at Home Depot. I'm wondering if they would be as effective as a barrier against exhale infection (that is, me spreading the virus should I become infected) if I put a piece of masking tape over the valve?
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #874 on: November 11, 2020, 03:38:03 pm »

Not everybody that Biden hires is going to be smart. That's a stupid article, which makes an assumption -- that everybody hits the wall around 75, which is absurd. There was at least one well-known Wall Street finance guy who was still driving to work when he was 101. I don't know how long he lasted, but why should be lose 25 years of productive life while some 25-year-old junkie gets a pass? And why would Emmanuel assume that we have to ration vaccine? We make millions of doses of flu vaccine annually, and Pfizer says it should be able to produce 1.3 billion doses of vaccine next year. In fact, when I read the article, I sort of assumed that Emmanuel was looking for controversy or maybe just a paycheck. If I were Biden, this kind of thinking would disqualify a candidate for any serious medically related post, not for thinking it, but just for the ammunition it gives to the cranks.

Did you actually read the article?
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Chris Kern

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #875 on: November 11, 2020, 03:42:06 pm »

I actually have some of those 3M N95s with valves, that I bought a couple years ago at Home Depot. I'm wondering if they would be as effective as a barrier against exhale infection (that is, me spreading the virus should I become infected) if I put a piece of masking tape over the valve?

Any answer I could offer would be purely speculative.

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #876 on: November 11, 2020, 04:00:15 pm »

About that postal service guy recanting or not. No need to decide whether he did or didn't. Wait and see. No need to take up sides 30 seconds after something does or doesn't happen. It is interesting to see what media different individuals go to for news though. So go straight for the conspiracy theory sites.

Ultimately, whether he recanted or recanted his earlier recanting or never recanted at all doesn't matter. A review—conducted by a local newspaper, the Erie County Board of Elections Chairman Carl Anderson, and others—of the 129 mail-in ballot envelopes that were postmarked Nov. 3rd but received at the Erie County Board of Elections after Election Day shows that a grand total of two ballots came thru the Erie postal facility. Two ballots.

https://www.goerie.com/story/2020/11/10/only-2-late-ballots-postmarked-nov-3-came-erie-postal-facility
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #877 on: November 11, 2020, 04:41:36 pm »

They are political appointees that are in question.  Fair game and should the election hold for Biden they are gone anyway.

Right...

The most telling sign of the mediocrity of the Trump administration is their total inability to plant convincing proof of voting fraud before the elections isn’t? ;)

Because we know beyond possible doubt that they are currently busy trying to manufacture those.

Incompetence or delusional confidence about their ability to win without cheating? I hesitate.

Cheers,
Bernard

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #878 on: November 11, 2020, 04:45:22 pm »

Not everybody that Biden hires is going to be smart. That's a stupid article, which makes an assumption -- that everybody hits the wall around 75, which is absurd. There was at least one well-known Wall Street finance guy who was still driving to work when he was 101. I don't know how long he lasted, but why should be lose 25 years of productive life while some 25-year-old junkie gets a pass? And why would Emmanuel assume that we have to ration vaccine? We make millions of doses of flu vaccine annually, and Pfizer says it should be able to produce 1.3 billion doses of vaccine next year. In fact, when I read the article, I sort of assumed that Emmanuel was looking for controversy or maybe just a paycheck. If I were Biden, this kind of thinking would disqualify a candidate for any serious medically related post, not for thinking it, but just for the ammunition it gives to the cranks.
I'm 75 and not ready to go yet even if I am a crank.  When Obamacare was being proposed, it's guys like this that scared the hell out of people who wear fearful of the government putting limits on health care based on age through government sponsored health insurance. 

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #879 on: November 11, 2020, 04:46:32 pm »

This idea, that there is no data to show masks "do something" is idiotic. Masks have been worn in hospitals and elsewhere for well over 100 years, of course they do something useful as protection to others. Only those deep inside the unreality bubble of alternative facts would suggest they don't do anything and make them political. They might as well ask for 'facts' that the Earth is round and the sun revolves around it, that gravity exists. When provided actual facts and data, overwhelming accepted by many experts (and they are not), they will push back and deny these facts. The same folks, reading the National Enquirer or some bogus web site, believe father Cruz aided in the JFK assassination, Clinton is a pedophile and Democrats eat babies.

Yet some believe climate change and Covid-19 and masks are a hoax. Pathetic ignorance. 

There is more than enough evidence from scientists and others that masks do something quite useful, they are damn helpful in preventing the infectious spread from Covid-19 and other airborne disease. NO ONE said they are 100% perfection toward protection. Even if some are a mere 20% effective, that's 20% better than no mask. Dismissing mask wearing due to ignorance and inability to accept what they do is simply a sign of trollish stupidity and an agenda of posting to a result of CWOBaT (colossal waste of bandwidth and time). They might as well ask for proof of Gravity and then as their confirmation bias must, they will not  accept the science and data provided. Don't feed trolls, then when they don't get the attention they desire, they will disappear. Some are asking questions expecting data along with opinions. Some are asking questions that no amount of data will provide anything but push back and a lack of acceptance of fact. The Earth IS flat inside their unreality bubble.

There's no data that suggests massive voter fraud that would alter the difference in the votes from last week. A new Politico-Morning Consult poll found that the number of Republicans who now say they don’t believe the 2020 election was free and fair has doubled since the election, moving from 35 percent before the election to 70 percent today. Absurd. Worse is the absurdity that masks do nothing or don't protect those wearing them. Such attitudes are best summed up with this reflection:

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” Martin Luther King

The idiotic idea that a mask is political and not useful is very dangerous. To those who are around those who refuse to wear them. It's as dangerous as those who tell us they refuse to stop at red lights because doing so affects their personal freedom. Absurd. Dangerous ignorance and conscientious stupidity. You can't fix stupid. Don't try, ignore.

In fact the only convincing scientific data I was able to find was about prolonged exposure at very close range. Which mostly applies to health workers, people caring to family members, commuters in busy trains, club dancers,...

The truth is that there seems to be no scientific evidence of the value outside these situations.

As always, just telling it like it is.

Cheers,
Bernard
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