Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Robert Roaldi]

It's not noise. I posted at least half a dozen samples including the election a few miles from me in New Jersey that was thrown out last year because 19% of the votes were fraudulent.  Why don't you just regulate your laws in Canada where you live?  We do things our way in the US.

Sounds to me like it's NJ that has a problem.

[Alan Klein]

Exactly which statistic do you have a question about, and what is your question about it?

The papers are claiming how good employment is because 900,000 people last month went back to work.  However, the first-time unemployment figure is 700,000+ in one week (or 3,000,000 for the month), leaving a deficit of over 2,000,000 jobs.  How do these statistics show that the job market is improving which is their claim?

[Alan Klein]

Sounds to me like it's NJ that has a problem.

Exactly.  Most states have this problem.  We're just not as honest as Canadians. 

[faberryman]

Why don't you just regulate your laws in Canada where you live?  We do things our way in the US.

That seems to be the source of controversy, the way we do things in the US.

You express your opinion about socialist healthcare in Canada; it seems only fair to allow Robert to express his opinion about the way different states regulate voting in the US. You are not trying to cancel Robert are you? Sort of seems like it to me.

[James Clark]

I'll grant you blacks and others may have difficulty voting with election laws created against fraud.  But there are concerns on the other side, particularly Republican, that there's fraud being committed with the open way we did voting last year. 

I posted quite a number of samples that show how prevalent it is in the past, if mainly for local and state office positions, not presidential.  The whole Georgia issue in my opinion has nothing to do with Georgia, but rather HR1.  It's the Democrat-sponsored bill in congress to eliminate practically all voter ID's and checking.  It will open up elections to huge amounts of gaming.  The Georgia argument is just a tool being used by Democrats to condition the public so that they will support HR1 as being anti-racist when it's all about giving Democrats a free hand to coach voters, harvest ballots, and do other things that currently are illegal. 

Practically all states have election laws to prevent and punish voting fraud.  My Democratic-controlled Yankee, New Jersey, not exactly a Jim Crow state, has these laws as well.  They're very similar to Georgia.  Certainly much sterner than HR1 which would eliminate most if not all fraud protection.

Look, I don't know the exact balance of openness and restraints we should have.  Certainly, we argue can about these things and we do.  But just the fact of having certain checks and balances does not make it racist.  Certainly, they're not considered racist in NJ.

What rules would you keep that could balance out both concerns?

To me, any conversation has to start with the general idea that it's wrong to eliminate thousands votes that accurately reflect the will of the voter in order to stop one that doesn't, don't you think? 

[Alan Klein]

That seems to be the source of controversy, the way we do things in the US.

You express your opinion about socialist healthcare in Canada; it seems only fair to allow Robert to express his opinion about the way different states regulate voting in the US. You are not trying to cancel Robert are you? Sort of seems like it to me.

He certainly can comment on our laws.  But as I said we have more crooks here willing to steal an election. Maybe that's something a Canadian might not realize, nor many Americans either apparently. So many people claim there's no fraud when that isn't true despite the fact we have so many laws against fraud.  Some Americans will try to steal an election and chance going to jail to get elected official dogcatcher.   

[MattBurt]

We do things our way in the US.

Yes, let's do it like we do in Colorado across the country. Works great and attempted fraud is minimal (and goes in both directions when it happens).
So many drop boxes! So easy, convenient, AND secure. I dropped it off by bike and the whole trip took about 10 minutes. I had a friend whose signature didn't match on her mailed ballot so she got called in to verify it. A small inconvenience for her but once straightened out, a great reassurance that things are being closely monitored.
It's almost like they want all the eligible voters to vote here. Amazing!

[MattBurt]

He certainly can comment on our laws.  But as I said we have more crooks here willing to steal an election. Maybe that's something a Canadian might not realize, nor many Americans either apparently. So many people claim there's no fraud when that isn't true despite the fact we have so many laws against fraud.  Some Americans will try to steak an election and chance going to jail to get elected official dogcatcher.

This is news to me. How are they doing it?

[Alan Klein]

To me, any conversation has to start with the general idea that it's wrong to eliminate thousands votes that accurately reflect the will of the voter in order to stop one that doesn't, don't you think? 

But the will of the voters are distorted so much due to fraud.  As I mentioned, in my community a few miles away last year, 19% of the votes were fraudulent.  There has to be some rules.  If we take off all protection as HR1 wants to do, the problem will be come ten times worse.  People risk jail now.  What's going to happen when all restraints are off? 

Here's a suggestion maybe you could accept regarding ID's.  If you don't have a photo ID, and can't find the time to get one, how about mailing in copies of bills from a utility where you live?  How about a birth certificate, communion, or other official certificate along with a bill that shows your address?  Many poor people, black and white, get food stamps or other assistance from the government.  There is government communications giving their address that could be used for identification.   Then, you go on a voter list and mail-in ballots can be subsequently mailed to you before each election. After that, you don't even have to vote in person.  That could be a reasonable compromise IMO.  What do you think? 

[Alan Klein]

This is news to me. How are they doing it?

How are they doing what?

[Robert Roaldi]

To me, any conversation has to start with the general idea that it's wrong to eliminate thousands votes that accurately reflect the will of the voter in order to stop one that doesn't, don't you think?

Seems like a good starting point to me. But I'm just a Canadian. 

[MattBurt]

How are they doing what?

Committing widespread voter fraud.
Was it too many drop boxes? Too much water for thirsty voters in line? Polling place hours that were too convenient for working folks?

[MattBurt]

Seems like a good starting point to me. But I'm just a Canadian. 

Sounds good to me too and I'm as American as peanut butter or hot dogs (which both originated elsewhere but we still love them as our own).

[MattBurt]

But the will of the voters are distorted so much due to fraud.  As I mentioned, in my community a few miles away last year, 19% of the votes were fraudulent. 

I'd like to see the details on that. Is there a huge list of people arrested or what?
Was it from too many drop boxes?

[Robert Roaldi]

But the will of the voters are distorted so much due to fraud.  As I mentioned, in my community a few miles away last year, 19% of the votes were fraudulent.  There has to be some rules.  If we take off all protection as HR1 wants to do, the problem will be come ten times worse.  People risk jail now.  What's going to happen when all restraints are off?   

You seem to be obsessing about that NJ election. You must have brought it up 20 times or more by now. Maybe you should volunteer to work for NJ's election organization, keep your eye on it.

Is someone advocating taking off all restraints? You're the only person I've ever heard say that, but I have to add that I don't keep on top of those things.

Anyway, why is this being discussed again?

[Alan Klein]

Committing widespread voter fraud.
Was it too many drop boxes? Too much water for thirsty voters in line? Polling place hours that were too convenient for working folks?

Most in New Jersey seem to be Fraudulent Use of Absentee Ballots.  Also, False registration, Buying Votes, Duplicate Voting.  Here's the link.  You can check other states there as well.
https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/search?combine=&state=NJ&year=&case_type=All&fraud_type=All

[MattBurt]

Ah, those were the 19% that were thrown out. So they weren't fraudulent votes, they just may have been attempted fraudulent votes.
But it looks like the system worked and they were identified before being counted.
Whew, crisis averted.

[James Clark]

But the will of the voters are distorted so much due to fraud.  As I mentioned, in my community a few miles away last year, 19% of the votes were fraudulent.  There has to be some rules.  If we take off all protection as HR1 wants to do, the problem will be come ten times worse.  People risk jail now.  What's going to happen when all restraints are off? 

Here's a suggestion maybe you could accept regarding ID's.  If you don't have a photo ID, and can't find the time to get one, how about mailing in copies of bills from a utility where you live?  How about a birth certificate, communion, or other official certificate along with a bill that shows your address?  Many poor people, black and white, get food stamps or other assistance from the government.  There is government communications giving their address that could be used for identification.   Then, you go on a voter list and mail-in ballots can be subsequently mailed to you before each election. After that, you don't even have to vote in person.  That could be a reasonable compromise IMO.  What do you think?

I mean, sure. If "voter ID" means you mail in a copy of a utility bill or a WIC card or a SNAP card (does SNAP issue cards??) then you get a ballot back in the mail, that's obviously better than saying you need to take an original certified birth certificate and second form of ID to a DMV, even if it still adds a step to voting that I, for example, don't have to take.

[James Clark]

Seems like a good starting point to me. But I'm just a Canadian. 

F'n commie.   

[Alan Klein]

I'd like to see the details on that. Is there a huge list of people arrested or what?
Was it from too many drop boxes?

Here's the report on the 19%.  It turns out 24% of the vote was rejected by the courts.  That's the election near my house you asked about.  One of the guys caught was actually the guy running for office.  In a make-up election, he ran anyway and won.  I guess he'll serve his political office from jail.  Hey.  This is New Jersey.

The May 2020 election for the Third Ward Paterson City Council was overturned by Superior Court Judge Ernest M. Caposela because of what he called “mail in vote procedural violations”. The Passaic County Board of Elections became aware of potential absentee ballots that were improperly cast and handled. Of all ballots cast in the election, 24.29% were rejected. Ballots were rejected because signatures did not match and sections on the ballot designating that someone other than the voter was handling the ballot were left unfilled. A substantial number of ballots were left on the floor of an apartment building, while approximately two hundred uncounted mail-in ballots were found in a postal box located in the adjacent township. Shortly after the election results were tabulated, evidence emerged about an absentee ballot trafficking scheme involving at least four individuals, including two members running for City Council. Candidate Alex Mendez, current councilman Michael Jackson, Shelim Khalique, and Abu Razyen have now been charged with various felonies related to the alleged scheme. The judge ordered a new special election which was held in November 2020. Alex Mendez won by a nine-vote margin, despite the criminal voter fraud charges that are pending against him.
https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/search?combine=&state=NJ&year=&case_type=All&fraud_type=All