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Author Topic: Capture One 21 - coming to a computer near you soon...!  (Read 10069 times)

Dinarius

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Re: Capture One 21 - coming to a computer near you soon...!
« Reply #60 on: November 27, 2020, 06:58:42 am »

Black Friday deal is -30%.

So, even better for those who waited.

Having viewed both promo presentations, as with version 11, I think I'll skip this one.

D.
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IanSeward

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Re: Capture One 21 - coming to a computer near you soon...!
« Reply #61 on: November 27, 2020, 02:58:08 pm »

Black Friday deal is -30%.

So, even better for those who waited.

Having viewed both promo presentations, as with version 11, I think I'll skip this one.

D.

The beauty of perpetual licence software, choice. If the upgrade offers something you need, happy to pay. If it doesn't, happy to save money Win-Win :-)

Ian
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Ferp

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Re: Capture One 21 - coming to a computer near you soon...!
« Reply #62 on: November 27, 2020, 07:37:48 pm »

I personally don't see the logic of NOT adding xxx feature just because another application has a similar feature.  Otherwise progress would be somewhat stunted. ;)

I think the point of the comments was that you're making a big deal about a feature where C1 was last cab off the rank, not that you were copying something from other s/w.  I didn't bother to watch the video, but your main marketing point is not that you've finally got one, but rather ...

C1's implementation does look a little different though as it appears to have more "creative" possibilities with the inclusion of the "Haze" colour picker, combined with the ability to apply locally.

Agreed.  I haven't seen all the other dehaze tools, but this was new to me.  The Affinity dehaze tool also has a couple of extra sliders, but not that one.  Speaking of which ...

Affinity Photo works well as an external pixel editor with C1. Just remember that if you want to further edit the Tif that's returned to C1 from Affinity to use the "Open With" command rather than "Edit With" as that avoids generating a new Tif file, unless that's what you want to do :-)

Thanks for that tip.  I don't generally use the roundtrip workflow, but I'll keep it in mind.  Normally I do as much as I can on an image in C1, and then switch to a pixel editor if necessary. 

This is a bit OT for this thread, but IMHO the Achilles' Heel of Affinity is file format interoperability.  As soon as as you start making edits in layers, you have to save the image in its afphoto proprietary file format.  Affinity claims that this format has advantages - that may be true  - but interoperability isn't one of them, as no other program can read it, and Affinity seem resistant to enhancing interoperability.  To be fair, Photoshop layered TIFFs and PSDs are also proprietary, but they're better understood, and Affinity can read them, up to a point.  It can read PSDs fairly well, and TIFFs imperfectly.

This is OT because I assume you wouldn't send any layered file format back to C1 in a roundtrip workflow.  You can export a flat TIFF from Affinity Photo, which I imagine would suit that workflow.
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Ferp

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Re: Capture One 21 - coming to a computer near you soon...!
« Reply #63 on: November 27, 2020, 08:18:27 pm »

Black Friday deal is -30%.  So, even better for those who waited.

I got the Black Friday offer email as well.  It looked like it only applied to styles, and when I went to the Capture One site I couldn't see any sign of a discount on the software.  HOWEVER ... over on Fujirumors they were advertising a 30% off sale on everything C1 using a coupon code of BLACKFRIDAY30, and yes that works on the software.

David Grover, if you're reading this, I have to say, I was rather miffed that people who put their trust in Capture One and bought the upgrade fairly promptly sight unseen got a discount of 20% whereas those who waited for Black Friday got 30%.  This is not a way of rewarding loyal customers.  I know that Capture One has had occasional quick sales in the past, I first bought C1 by waiting for one of those sales, but this is different.

Let me tell you a story David.  At the beginning of the pandemic earlier this year, Affinity had a 50% off sale on all their three Adobe-competing products.  It ran for several months.  In a masterstroke of bad timing, I bought all three just a day or two before the sale was announced.  So I emailed them to plead my case, and guess what?  They said sure, we expected this to happen, here's a 50% refund.  That's how you build customer loyalty.

I won't fall for this again. Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, ...

Having viewed both promo presentations, as with version 11, I think I'll skip this one.

Years ago it was the case that you could skip one upgrade without cost penalty.  I'm fairly sure that that ceased several years ago, and now the more versions you're jumping the more it costs.  Does anyone know what it costs now to skip one upgrade, two upgrades, etc?  I suspect that if you're going to want to upgrade at some stage (e.g. new camera), you may as well stay up-to-date.  I'm certain that Capture One has the maths all worked out.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Capture One 21 - coming to a computer near you soon...!
« Reply #64 on: November 28, 2020, 04:56:25 am »


David Grover, if you're reading this, I have to say, I was rather miffed that people who put their trust in Capture One and bought the upgrade fairly promptly sight unseen got a discount of 20% whereas those who waited for Black Friday got 30%.  This is not a way of rewarding loyal customers.  I know that Capture One has had occasional quick sales in the past, I first bought C1 by waiting for one of those sales, but this is different.

Let me tell you a story David.  At the beginning of the pandemic earlier this year, Affinity had a 50% off sale on all their three Adobe-competing products.  It ran for several months.  In a masterstroke of bad timing, I bought all three just a day or two before the sale was announced.  So I emailed them to plead my case, and guess what?  They said sure, we expected this to happen, here's a 50% refund.  That's how you build customer loyalty.

I won't fall for this again. Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, ...


This ^2
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IanSeward

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Re: Capture One 21 - coming to a computer near you soon...!
« Reply #65 on: November 28, 2020, 05:05:43 am »


Thanks for that tip.  I don't generally use the roundtrip workflow, but I'll keep it in mind.  Normally I do as much as I can on an image in C1, and then switch to a pixel editor if necessary. 

This is a bit OT for this thread, but IMHO the Achilles' Heel of Affinity is file format interoperability.  As soon as as you start making edits in layers, you have to save the image in its afphoto proprietary file format.  Affinity claims that this format has advantages - that may be true  - but interoperability isn't one of them, as no other program can read it, and Affinity seem resistant to enhancing interoperability.

A bit of background on Affinity file format to help understand why they went this route. I criticised Affinity for having it's own format when it first came out in 2016. Affinity were in it for the long game and when they had developed their full suite of Photo, Designer and Publisher the reason for their own format became clear.

In Affinity Publisher you can have a document with a photo or graphic embedded in the page and then decide you need to make some change to the graphic or photo. In every other app you need to fire up Affinity Photo or Designer, find and load the photo/graphic into Photo/Designer. Make your changes, save the Photo/Graphic to your hard drive. Go back into Publisher, find the Photo/graphic and replace the existing file in the document with the new file.

What happens with Affinity Publisher is that you simply press a button and the UI changes to either Designer or Photo, you make your changes and press the button to go back to the Publisher UI. This is a game changing way to work.

I would guess that given this complexity, third parties find it very difficult to understand and read the file format. Doesn't help with being able to see files in other applications but it isn't a case of Serif being awkward :-)

Ian
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IanSeward

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Re: Capture One 21 - coming to a computer near you soon...!
« Reply #66 on: November 28, 2020, 05:12:14 am »

This ^2

They did exactly the same last year, so with some research you can avoid this. Also true for most other software and plenty of posts about waiting for Black Friday on various forums, that's why people wait for Black Friday.

Everybody will do the same next year, so...
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Remko

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Re: Capture One 21 - coming to a computer near you soon...!
« Reply #67 on: November 28, 2020, 06:24:59 am »

I got the Black Friday offer email as well.  It looked like it only applied to styles, and when I went to the Capture One site I couldn't see any sign of a discount on the software.  HOWEVER ... over on Fujirumors they were advertising a 30% off sale on everything C1 using a coupon code of BLACKFRIDAY30, and yes that works on the software.

David Grover, if you're reading this, I have to say, I was rather miffed that people who put their trust in Capture One and bought the upgrade fairly promptly sight unseen got a discount of 20% whereas those who waited for Black Friday got 30%.  This is not a way of rewarding loyal customers.  I know that Capture One has had occasional quick sales in the past, I first bought C1 by waiting for one of those sales, but this is different.

Let me tell you a story David.  At the beginning of the pandemic earlier this year, Affinity had a 50% off sale on all their three Adobe-competing products.  It ran for several months.  In a masterstroke of bad timing, I bought all three just a day or two before the sale was announced.  So I emailed them to plead my case, and guess what?  They said sure, we expected this to happen, here's a 50% refund.  That's how you build customer loyalty.

I won't fall for this again. Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, ...

Years ago it was the case that you could skip one upgrade without cost penalty.  I'm fairly sure that that ceased several years ago, and now the more versions you're jumping the more it costs.  Does anyone know what it costs now to skip one upgrade, two upgrades, etc?  I suspect that if you're going to want to upgrade at some stage (e.g. new camera), you may as well stay up-to-date.  I'm certain that Capture One has the maths all worked out.

This ^ 2.
I created a support case for this and pleaded my case. Saying more or less what you stated here.Let's see how CO will respond.

cheers,
Remko
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kers

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Re: Capture One 21 - coming to a computer near you soon...!
« Reply #68 on: November 28, 2020, 06:32:40 am »

I bought Media Pro Se and a month later they stopped selling it.
Not very nice either... no % off at all.
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Remko

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Re: Capture One 21 - coming to a computer near you soon...!
« Reply #69 on: November 28, 2020, 06:34:01 am »

This is a bit OT for this thread, but IMHO the Achilles' Heel of Affinity is file format interoperability.  As soon as as you start making edits in layers, you have to save the image in its afphoto proprietary file format. 
You do not have  to save your file in the afphoto format. I save a file - with its layers - in the TIFF format. When you do that there is an option to save the affinity layers as well.

You probably know this; to save a file in AP in any other format than its propriety format, use the Export command.

cheers,
Remko
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Dinarius

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Re: Capture One 21 - coming to a computer near you soon...!
« Reply #70 on: November 28, 2020, 10:00:29 am »

I got the Black Friday offer email as well.  It looked like it only applied to styles, and when I went to the Capture One site I couldn't see any sign of a discount on the software.  HOWEVER ... over on Fujirumors they were advertising a 30% off sale on everything C1 using a coupon code of BLACKFRIDAY30, and yes that works on the software.

David Grover, if you're reading this, I have to say, I was rather miffed that people who put their trust in Capture One and bought the upgrade fairly promptly sight unseen got a discount of 20% whereas those who waited for Black Friday got 30%.  This is not a way of rewarding loyal customers.  I know that Capture One has had occasional quick sales in the past, I first bought C1 by waiting for one of those sales, but this is different.

Let me tell you a story David.  At the beginning of the pandemic earlier this year, Affinity had a 50% off sale on all their three Adobe-competing products.  It ran for several months.  In a masterstroke of bad timing, I bought all three just a day or two before the sale was announced.  So I emailed them to plead my case, and guess what?  They said sure, we expected this to happen, here's a 50% refund.  That's how you build customer loyalty.

I won't fall for this again. Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, ...

Years ago it was the case that you could skip one upgrade without cost penalty.  I'm fairly sure that that ceased several years ago, and now the more versions you're jumping the more it costs.  Does anyone know what it costs now to skip one upgrade, two upgrades, etc?  I suspect that if you're going to want to upgrade at some stage (e.g. new camera), you may as well stay up-to-date.  I'm certain that Capture One has the maths all worked out.

When I skipped 11, there was no penalty the following year when I went straight from 10 to 12.

If this has changed and you can no longer skip a new release, I’d be interested in knowing.

In the greater scheme of things, this is no big money. But, the palaver around this year’s release hasn’t won them any new friends, if this thread isn’t any indication. Underwhelming.

D.
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ronaldnztan

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Re: Capture One 21 - coming to a computer near you soon...!
« Reply #71 on: November 28, 2020, 01:12:29 pm »

I wanted to reply to the overall thread on the forthcoming version 21 and some of the opinions expressed concerning discounts.

First and foremost, I'm with you in regard to the unwelcomed and abysmal changes to Capture One Pro (C1PRO) in regard to their customer/tech support. Gone are when us PRO licence end users are guaranteed a reply from Tech Support within 1-2 business days depending on the day when support ticket was created. I do believe this is due to the increased users from amateurs, prosumers, and the "LR People."

As for the discounts, I immensely do not support what some of you have experienced. I remember earlier in the year, I even made a post about the 45% discount promotion to upgrade to version 20. I purposefully did not upgrade from 12 as my form of protest. I have my reasons. On Singles Day, they had a 20% off and with the recent 30% off for Black Friday.

I just feel that the current state of C1PRO is a "Hot Mess," just like the current COVID-19 pandemic everyone—and I mean everyone—is experiencing. Let's just all of us "suck it up" and endure that unless a Christmas Miracle occurs at the Phase One Headquarters in 27 days, this is our "New Normal" of how C1PRO as a separate software entity is going to be for 2021 and beyond.

I still wholeheartedly and professionally recommend C1PRO in a heartbeat. I used to upgrade on release day in prior versions going back to 3.7.8. That changed after the release of the underwhelming version 20 and the forthcoming version 21. I will upgrade halfway in the 2021 year and hoping to catch a sweet halfway discount for version 21 from version 12. If not, then I missed the boat and let's hope version 22 has core functionalities I simply can't refuse.

Maybe by then, they would include AI-driven and machine learning to include a "Annie Leibovitz" or "Norman Jean Roy" button. If that is the case, shut up and take my money Phase One!!!

I digress. Kidding aside.

Yes, all in all, version 21 (for me) is a lacklustre for my photography needs, but I will upgrade to it from version 12 anyway.
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Ferp

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Re: Capture One 21 - coming to a computer near you soon...!
« Reply #72 on: November 29, 2020, 12:37:46 am »

... I criticised Affinity for having it's own format when it first came out in 2016. Affinity were in it for the long game and when they had developed their full suite of Photo, Designer and Publisher the reason for their own format became clear.

In Affinity Publisher you can have a document with a photo or graphic embedded in the page and then decide you need to make some change to the graphic or photo. In every other app you need to fire up Affinity Photo or Designer, find and load the photo/graphic into Photo/Designer. Make your changes, save the Photo/Graphic to your hard drive. Go back into Publisher, find the Photo/graphic and replace the existing file in the document with the new file.

What happens with Affinity Publisher is that you simply press a button and the UI changes to either Designer or Photo, you make your changes and press the button to go back to the Publisher UI. This is a game changing way to work.

I had read this before, but had forgotten the specifics.  I knew there was a reason for their format.  I knew they weren't just being bl**dy minded.  However that wasn't my point.  I wasn't criticizing them for creating their own format.  My point was about interoperability, which is a wider issue:

I would guess that given this complexity, third parties find it very difficult to understand and read the file format. Doesn't help with being able to see files in other applications but it isn't a case of Serif being awkward :-)

I think it is actually, and I have the forum posts to back me up.  I use a Win-only digital image database program called Imatch.  In order for IMatch to index and manage afphoto files along with all the other image formats, the IMatch author needs some basic info about the file format.  So he posted on the Affinity forum and asked, here.  You can read the responses.  Particularly this one.  I call that being awkward.

Adobe could get away with this sort of behaviour, being the 1800kg gorilla in the room.  But it makes no sense for the new kid on the block to try to lock its users into their own closed universe.  For people starting out that might work, but if you want existing users with established worflows and existing image inventories to adopt your s/w, you have to enable them to fit it into their extising workflow, not to require them to ditch it all and start from scratch.  These posts are old, but I don't see any signs of change.

Having had that rant, Remko's point partly mollifies me:

You do not have  to save your file in the afphoto format. I save a file - with its layers - in the TIFF format. When you do that there is an option to save the affinity layers as well.  ... use the Export command.

Thanks, I'm not sure I did know this.  Either I forgot, or I missed that export option.  Yes, that works.  The export dialogs are not perfect, but even PS can open the file, although of course it doesn't show the layers.  I wish it was a native save or save as option rather than export, but I guess they want to push you towards their own format.

So layered TIFFs from Affinity are like layered TIFFs from PS, other programs can read the flat file, but only the creating program can read the layers.  Except that Affinity has a limited capacity to read PS layers, so in that sense it's ahead.



P.S.  inspired by all this I have been playing some more, and am further mollified.  (i) The afphoto file format seems to be very efficient at storing 16 bit images, unlike PS where the TIFF compression options are essentially useless for 16 bit.  So that's a big tick for afphoto, despite my interoperability concerns.  (ii)  PS can read layers created by Affinity if the file is exported as PSD.  So there's more interoperability than I thought.  This is another reminder that PSD is a more useful file format than TIFF because it's better understood, despite being proprietary.  Which is not what I long thought.

This is way OT so I'll stop, but I've learnt a lot from this exchange.  Thanks.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 01:53:11 am by Ferp »
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Ferp

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Re: Capture One 21 - coming to a computer near you soon...!
« Reply #73 on: November 29, 2020, 12:44:11 am »

They did exactly the same last year, so with some research you can avoid this. Also true for most other software and plenty of posts about waiting for Black Friday on various forums, that's why people wait for Black Friday.

I went back and checked.  From my records I'm fairly certain that in late 2019 the Pro V12 -> V20 upgrade price was USD153 (plus any applicable taxes), and the pre-order and Black Friday discounts were both 30%, giving a discount price of USD107.10.  I encouraged a friend to buy the Fuji version on Black Friday, and he also got the 30%.  The difference this year was that the pre-Black Friday discount was only 20%.  And the upgrade price increased.  Previous complaint still applies.

I think Capture One is playing games with us - measuring the response to different pricing strategies.

I will upgrade halfway in the 2021 year and hoping to catch a sweet halfway discount for version 21 from version 12. If not, then I missed the boat and let's hope version 22 has core functionalities I simply can't refuse.  ... Yes, all in all, version 21 (for me) is a lacklustre for my photography needs, but I will upgrade to it from version 12 anyway.

If you do, would you mind letting us know what the Pro V12 -> V21 upgrade price is before any discounts?  This year for V20 -> V21 it was USD159, or USD 127.20 with 20% discount, USD111.30 with 30% discount for those who waited until Black Friday.
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gazwas

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Re: Capture One 21 - coming to a computer near you soon...!
« Reply #74 on: November 29, 2020, 04:10:53 am »

Having voiced my concerns early on in this thread about the early adopters discount the story rings true. How the hell can any self respecting business offering existing loyal customers discounts for their early adoption (software unseen) then four weeks later offer a larger discount to every man and his dog on Black Friday for that same software AND with every new feature discussed in great depth on YouTube.

Is Capture One now run in a similar fashion to Adobe - money first, existing users last?

I’m sure feeling very taken for granted at the moment and will be the last time I upgrade C1 Pro at each new version as I have done since 2008.

Fantastic job team Capture One!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 04:24:37 am by gazwas »
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Tibor O

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Re: Capture One 21 - coming to a computer near you soon...!
« Reply #75 on: November 29, 2020, 05:07:14 am »

When I skipped 11, there was no penalty the following year when I went straight from 10 to 12.

If this has changed and you can no longer skip a new release, I’d be interested in knowing.

D.

FYI, I have just checked my upgrade options and I can upgrade from C1 Pro 11 to C1 Pro 21 with Black Friday 30% discount for 146,30 EUR (I am in Europe).

Other info:

(1) I have the free Capture One for Phase One v20 license for my Phase One DB and will upgrade to C1 21 when upgrading my hardware in the near future.

(2) I have the C1 Pro 20 perpetual license that runs on my legacy Macs stuck on High Sierra for my Leaf Aptus and Canon raws. Will not upgrade to C1 Pro 21 because I assume it will not be supported on High Sierra. If upgrading now the price for upgrading from C1 Pro 20 to C1 Pro 21 with the Black Friday 30% discount is 118,30 EUR.

(3) I have the C1 Pro 11 perpetual license that runs on my legacy Macs stuck on High Sierra for my Leaf Aptus tethering as this is not supported from v12 onwards.

So, if you skipped v12 and v20 you can now upgrade to v21 for just 28,00 EUR more than those upgrading from the last version.

Also, if you wait until mid next year (i. e. June, July 2021) you can expect sales for up to 45% discount for upgrades (I know because I upgraded from v11 Pro to v20 Pro in July 2020).

So, if you like me need also a Pro license (and you have the free DB version) upgrading to perpetual license every other year 6 months after the new version release makes a lot of sense.
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Rhossydd

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Re: Capture One 21 - coming to a computer near you soon...!
« Reply #76 on: November 30, 2020, 05:18:19 am »

So it was 'Black Friday 30% off' last chance.... today 'Cyber Monday 30% off' last chance...

Pretty rubbish really
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Ferp

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Re: Capture One 21 - coming to a computer near you soon...!
« Reply #77 on: November 30, 2020, 07:05:02 am »

Adorama has C1 Pro (complete) for USD174.95, or 41% off, for Cyber Monday.  That's not that much more than the upgrade.  Probably less than the upgrade from versions earlier than V20.  Those on V12 or earlier would be better off snapping this up.
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lhodaniel

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Re: Capture One 21 - coming to a computer near you soon...!
« Reply #78 on: December 01, 2020, 03:16:27 pm »

I went back and checked.  From my records I'm fairly certain that in late 2019 the Pro V12 -> V20 upgrade price was USD153 (plus any applicable taxes), and the pre-order and Black Friday discounts were both 30%, giving a discount price of USD107.10.  I encouraged a friend to buy the Fuji version on Black Friday, and he also got the 30%.  The difference this year was that the pre-Black Friday discount was only 20%.  And the upgrade price increased.  Previous complaint still applies.

I skipped v12 and upgraded from 11 to 20. The retail upgrade price was $199. I waited until August and got a 55% discount, which made it much more palatable.
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Paul2660

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Re: Capture One 21 - coming to a computer near you soon...!
« Reply #79 on: December 02, 2020, 09:10:00 am »

when is 21 supposed to be released?  Right now you still download 20 with the ability to upgrade to 21 for free (if you purchase now).

Just curious as they have been talking about 21 for months. (Capture One/Phase One)

Paul C
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