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Author Topic: which profile for arches hot press  (Read 191 times)

bwana

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which profile for arches hot press
« on: July 28, 2020, 10:24:18 am »

I read this post

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=125561.msg1052366#msg1052366

but am wondering if anyone has actually tried it and which profiles they use?
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deanwork

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Re: which profile for arches hot press
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2020, 10:53:02 am »

Uncoated cotton media is totally different from coated inkjet media. You have to create your own profile for your specific printer Or hire someone to make one. The biggest difference is setting the correct ink limits. Generally you limit the black ink to keep from over inking. Too much ink and the print looks flat and gray in shadows. You will never have the contrast of a paper with an inkjet receptor coating, but you can make some nice work with arches Hotpress with a well made profile.

I read this post

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=125561.msg1052366#msg1052366

but am wondering if anyone has actually tried it and which profiles they use?
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Paul_Roark

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Re: which profile for arches hot press
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2020, 11:15:13 am »

An OEM inkset will not print well on Arches watercolor paper.  I use Hot Press 140 lb. fairly regularly.  I also, however, use a custom black and white inkset and QuadToneRip to do this. 

There are several issues with Arches.  First, to get a good dmax you need an inkload of about 125 (plus or minus) for the MK ink.  This requires two MK positions.  (I use K and Y.)  With two MKs you can pour on enough MK to have an Arches print look very good.  The second issue is that Arches is not an inkjet paper.  Inkjet papers are made to pull the fluid straight down into the coating quickly to stop horizontal spread -- aka bleeding.  In the deep black, this is seldom an issue people will see.  However, for the midtone grays/inks a low ink limit is needed.  Good luck doing all this with an OEM inkset.  I don't think it's possible to get a first rate black and white on Arches from an OEM inkset, but maybe some creative profiling will be able to do it.  Because I don't use OEM inksets, I have not tried.

See https://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/7800-Glossy-Carbon-Variable-Tone-2016.pdf for the black and white inkset I use.  (It's not just for glossy paper.)  A footnote at the bottom of page 1 gets you to the profiles.  They include Arches profiles.  That will allow you to see the ink loads and profiling strategy I use.  Keep in mind what inks are in what positions when you read the profile information.

Note that I have not tried to make a profile with the latest Epson inks.  If I were to try, however, one thing I'd test is not only what the latest Epson MK can do in terms of dmax -- using QTR and an inkload of 100% for MK.  I'd also test what putting a bit of cyan into the 100% black does.  In the past, I was able to jack up MK dmax with a bit of cyan.  Good luck, and let us know what you find.

Another hint, try the back side of Arches 140.  It has fewer "hairs" on it that might pop up and cause a white spot.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 11:25:58 am by Paul_Roark »
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deanwork

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Re: which profile for arches hot press
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2020, 02:56:52 pm »


All the MK inks on the new Epsons and Canon are significantly darker than everything we used before that didnít have dye in it. Same for Cones new MK. Itís a totally different ball game. You have a lot of control over ink limits with QTR on the Epson printers. Other rips too.  Same thing with the Z3100 and Z3200 printers ( not the Z9 yet). I measured a dmax on Canson Rag at  density 1.8  12 years ago.

Iíve made nice prints on the Z printers with Arches Hot Press.  Does that mean they have the same dmax as papers with good ink receptor coatings? No. Neither does coated Kozo, Bamboo blended papers, linen, silk, and a host of other media I use. But for that work I was doing I didnít need it. What is nice about the Arches is the way the ink absorbs into the media like other forms of non-photographic printmaking. Dmax is one quality among many qualities, as is resolution.


An OEM inkset will not print well on Arches watercolor paper.  I use Hot Press 140 lb. fairly regularly.  I also, however, use a custom black and white inkset and QuadToneRip to do this. 

There are several issues with Arches.  First, to get a good dmax you need an inkload of about 125 (plus or minus) for the MK ink.  This requires two MK positions.  (I use K and Y.)  With two MKs you can pour on enough MK to have an Arches print look very good.  The second issue is that Arches is not an inkjet paper.  Inkjet papers are made to pull the fluid straight down into the coating quickly to stop horizontal spread -- aka bleeding.  In the deep black, this is seldom an issue people will see.  However, for the midtone grays/inks a low ink limit is needed.  Good luck doing all this with an OEM inkset.  I don't think it's possible to get a first rate black and white on Arches from an OEM inkset, but maybe some creative profiling will be able to do it.  Because I don't use OEM inksets, I have not tried.

See https://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/7800-Glossy-Carbon-Variable-Tone-2016.pdf for the black and white inkset I use.  (It's not just for glossy paper.)  A footnote at the bottom of page 1 gets you to the profiles.  They include Arches profiles.  That will allow you to see the ink loads and profiling strategy I use.  Keep in mind what inks are in what positions when you read the profile information.

Note that I have not tried to make a profile with the latest Epson inks.  If I were to try, however, one thing I'd test is not only what the latest Epson MK can do in terms of dmax -- using QTR and an inkload of 100% for MK.  I'd also test what putting a bit of cyan into the 100% black does.  In the past, I was able to jack up MK dmax with a bit of cyan.  Good luck, and let us know what you find.

Another hint, try the back side of Arches 140.  It has fewer "hairs" on it that might pop up and cause a white spot.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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