US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[TechTalk]

What a colossal waste of time for everyone. Except for the troller. He is getting exactly what he wants: attention, and lots of it.

Getting attention is a big part of it. Sometimes it is just for the sheer bizarre pleasure of believing that other people are upset or for the more juvenile expression of it—heads explode.

Since Democrat Party seems to upset a lot of people here who I disagree with, I will continue to use it.

[PeterAit]

Thank you for the link to this interesting article. I have copied a few portions from it below.

The political path to galvanize American authoritarianism is also well worn and documented. First, purveyors of the paranoid style conjure an “other.” Second, this other is described as different from mainstream Americans, and identified as a clear and present threat to majoritarian values and traditions. Third, the paranoid leader stokes fear that a hidden conspiracy to undermine mainstream values is afoot and alleges that the other is behind it—activating American authoritarians. Finally, in its most virulent manifestation, growing fear of the other is manipulated to rationalize actions that violate fundamental values, norms, laws and constitutional protections guaranteed to all Americans.

Let me be clear: Our fellow Americans, including our authoritarian neighbors, are not the enemy. The enemies of democracy are self-interested men and women who exploit fear to secure and expand their power. Fear activates the reservoir of intolerance that resides across ideological and partisan divides. And it dupes some of us into demanding uniformity over diversity, denigrating our neighbors, and turning our back on the very motto inscribed on the Great Seal of our Republic in 1782: e pluribus unum.

Personally, we need to stop othering each other. No more schoolyard labeling of one another as “libtard,” “snowflake,” or “deplorable.” No more reveling in the drawing of differences between us and them. There is no “enemy within” except the self-interested misleaders who exacerbate our problems. The real enemy is ignorance, disinformation and the lure of simple authoritarian answers to complex problems.

In 1950, taking McCarthyism head on while others demurred, Republican Senator Margaret Chase Smith delivered a more pointed articulation of these principles in her “Declaration of Conscience.” She said: “It is high time that we stopped thinking politically as Republicans and Democrats about elections and started thinking patriotically as Americans about national security based on individual freedoms. It is high time that we all stopped being tools and victims of totalitarian techniques that, if continued here unchecked, will surely end what we have come to cherish as the American way of life.”

Excellent post, thank you. It will of course be beyond the ken of some people here, whom I will not name.

[TechTalk]

Matt Gaetz accuses GOP’s Kelly Loeffler of bribing Trump with $50 million to push out her rival

https://news.yahoo.com/matt-gaetz-accuses-gop-kelly

"This is what the Loeffler team went to the Trump team with," said Gaetz at a campaign event for Collins. "They went and said, 'Look, you guys gotta get Doug Collins out of this race' . . . She said, 'I have $50 million for this project, and I can either spend my $50 million getting new voters and helping the Trump campaign, or I can spend that $50 million taking out Doug Collins.'"

"While other sources confirmed that a message about Loeffler's potentially diminished financial support was passed from her team to Trump's, they described Loeffler's reported ultimatum as more nuanced than Gaetz portrayed it," reported Lachlan Markay. "According to one source familiar with the interactions, the Loeffler team's offer had more to do with supporting other Senate candidates than with supporting the president, and was actually relayed to the president's campaign by way of Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-KY. 'Basically it was to get McConnell and the Senate committee behind Loeffler and to not support Collins,' the source said."

The Senate special election in Georgia is being run as a jungle primary, with all Democrats and all Republicans running together on the same ballot and the top two advancing if no one gets over 50%. Recent polls have shown a tight race for the top two positions between Loeffler, Collins and the leading Democrat, Reverend Raphael Warnock.

[chez]

Goldhammer was right.  When the moderator starts taking sides and insulting the posters, it's time to go.

Alan, even though we butt heads here at times, I totally agree with you. I've watched LuLu activity drop dramatically and it really says something when a political post is the most active post on a photography forum.

Something is just not right here.

[BernardLanguillier]

One thing is sure, the first step is to vote Trump out in a totally clear way.

Whatever he does to rig the elections (his clear attempts to refuse votes from tens of thousands of legit voters based on the completely imaginary mail in ballot issue,...) or to not accept the results doesn't matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcsdW58KE-o

Cheers,
Bernard

[Robert Roaldi]

Alan, even though we butt heads here at times, I totally agree with you. I've watched LuLu activity drop dramatically and it really says something when a political post is the most active post on a photography forum.

Something is just not right here.

I understand how you feel, but things are not so dire. There are lots of photo-related discussions going on elsewhere on the site. There may not be as much activity in those places as there used to be or as much as you'd like, but given the pandemic that was always going to be the case. Photography may not be the main thing on people's minds these days. Add to that the current bizarre situation in US politics that sucks the air out of everything, it's not surprising that North American contributors are drawn to that. Coffee Corner is a place for shooting the breeze (talking bollocks, as they say in UK) and people have a lot of time on their hands these days. The non-overtly political discussions in Coffee Corner can still be interesting, and the partisan political stuff should die down soon.

[degrub]

Thank you for the link to this interesting article. I have copied a few portions from it below.

The political path to galvanize American authoritarianism is also well worn and documented. First, purveyors of the paranoid style conjure an “other.” Second, this other is described as different from mainstream Americans, and identified as a clear and present threat to majoritarian values and traditions. Third, the paranoid leader stokes fear that a hidden conspiracy to undermine mainstream values is afoot and alleges that the other is behind it—activating American authoritarians. Finally, in its most virulent manifestation, growing fear of the other is manipulated to rationalize actions that violate fundamental values, norms, laws and constitutional protections guaranteed to all Americans.

Let me be clear: Our fellow Americans, including our authoritarian neighbors, are not the enemy. The enemies of democracy are self-interested men and women who exploit fear to secure and expand their power. Fear activates the reservoir of intolerance that resides across ideological and partisan divides. And it dupes some of us into demanding uniformity over diversity, denigrating our neighbors, and turning our back on the very motto inscribed on the Great Seal of our Republic in 1782: e pluribus unum.

Personally, we need to stop othering each other. No more schoolyard labeling of one another as “libtard,” “snowflake,” or “deplorable.” No more reveling in the drawing of differences between us and them. There is no “enemy within” except the self-interested misleaders who exacerbate our problems. The real enemy is ignorance, disinformation and the lure of simple authoritarian answers to complex problems.

In 1950, taking McCarthyism head on while others demurred, Republican Senator Margaret Chase Smith delivered a more pointed articulation of these principles in her “Declaration of Conscience.” She said: “It is high time that we stopped thinking politically as Republicans and Democrats about elections and started thinking patriotically as Americans about national security based on individual freedoms. It is high time that we all stopped being tools and victims of totalitarian techniques that, if continued here unchecked, will surely end what we have come to cherish as the American way of life.”

There has been a recent show on PBS "world channel" recently called "hacking the brain" ( or something like that) that covers the mechanisms used to do this by dogmatic authoritarians and others. It is way too easy.

[Robert Roaldi]

QAnon disinformation? https://thehill.com/policy/technology/518118-disinformation-qanon-efforts-targeting-latino-voters-ramp-up-ahead-of. Some of the "info" that's being peddled is laughable. But if they keep pushing it out it must be because they think it works, which is both very cynical and depressing as hell.

I don't follow the American daily news cycle, is the video of Trump tossing paper towels at people on high rotation during the campaign? I never hear mention of it, which seems surprising. If they aren't using it, could it be that they think it will increase support for Trump so better not to show it? Now that would be truly depressing.

There is no bottom.

[faberryman]

I don't follow the American daily news cycle, is the video of Trump tossing paper towels at people on high rotation during the campaign? I never hear mention of it, which seems surprising. If they aren't using it, could it be that they think it will increase support for Trump so better not to show it? Now that would be truly depressing.

I haven't seen the paper towel clip in a long time. Trump is usually on TV every day so there is always something new to show.

[Jeremy Roussak]

Goldhammer was right.  When the moderator starts taking sides and insulting the posters, it's time to go.

I am neither taking sides (I have no skin in the game of American politics) nor insulting you. I am reprimanding you for poor behaviour. Your inability to grasp the reason for the reprimand is neither here nor there, but it bodes ill for improvement.

Alan, even though we butt heads here at times, I totally agree with you. I've watched LuLu activity drop dramatically and it really says something when a political post is the most active post on a photography forum.

Something is just not right here.

If two who are so diametrically opposed as Klein and Ogloff accuse me of bias against them, it's hard for me not to feel that I have things about right.

Jeremy

[Robert Roaldi]

I haven't seen the paper towel clip in a long time. Trump is usually on TV every day so there is always something new to show.

I mentioned it because I thought it might be on high rotation in election ads aimed at Latinos. I don't see how you could be anything other than repulsed by anyone who behaved so callously, let alone a person in office whose job it is to care for citizens. I was thinking that in a cynical movie (think Wag the Dog) you could have a scene where the paper towel throwing incident could be used to rouse the pro-Trump vote in some districts. I'm sure someone somewhere has done the calculus.

[Chris Kern]

QAnon disinformation?. . . Some of the "info" that's being peddled is laughable. But if they keep pushing it out it must be because they think it works, which is both very cynical and depressing as hell.

It's difficult to know to what extent particular voter demographics in particular states are influenced by right-wing conspiracy sites―or by operatives working on behalf of Russian intelligence services, for that matter.  The published opinion polls rarely attempt to track that sort of phenomenon.

However, there may be a much simpler explanation why Biden is polling worse among Latino voters than Clinton did in states like Florida: the Republican "ground game."  The Trump campaign and the Republican Party have been sending canvassers to knock on doors and make person-to-person appeals to voters.  The Biden campaign and the Democratic Party for the most part have not, reportedly out of concern that kind of contact with voters could spread the SARS-CoV-2 virus.  That type of direct contact can help persuade undecided voters and is even more effective in motivating those who support the canvassers' candidate actually to vote.

As you undoubtedly know, we don't have a national presidential election: we have 51 elections conducted by the individual states and the District of Columbia.  Florida is indeed critical to the presidential outcome this year, as the article you referenced points out, because if Trump can't win the state's electoral votes, as he did in 2016, his path to gaining an electoral vote majority will be extremely difficult.  The Biden campaign and its allies are now broadcasting advertising targeted at hispanohablantes in an attempt to address the polling deficit in that state.

[faberryman]

I mentioned it because I thought it might be on high rotation in election ads aimed at Latinos. I don't see how you could be anything other than repulsed by anyone who behaved so callously, let alone a person in office whose job it is to care for citizens. I was thinking that in a cynical movie (think Wag the Dog) you could have a scene where the paper towel throwing incident could be used to rouse the pro-Trump vote in some districts. I'm sure someone somewhere has done the calculus.

That would have no effect whatsoever on Trump supporters. The election will come down to about 10% or so of the population who have not made up their minds yet. The paper towel incident was not enough to move them to the Democratic side when it occurred; replaying it is unlikely to do so now. We'll just have to see if anything occurs in the next month to sway them one way or the other. The so-called "October surprise". Or one of them could have a stroke or something. Lots of scenarios.

[Robert Roaldi]

That would have no effect whatsoever on Trump supporters. The election will come down to about 10% or so of the population who have not made up their minds yet. The paper towel incident was not enough to move them to the Democratic side when it occurred; replaying it is unlikely to do so now. We'll just have to see if anything occurs in the next month to sway them one way or the other. The so-called "October surprise".

Would it not even have the effect of helping to get out the vote as in, "Look at this, we have to get rid of this guy, go vote!"?  But I get your point. If this shit show has already been discounted by the electorate to be the new normal, another ad won't change much. That is not a good place to be. I hope there is a way back from this.

[faberryman]

Would it not even have the effect of helping to get out the vote as in, "Look at this, we have to get rid of this guy, go vote!"?

I do not think so. I think it is viewed as just "Trump being Trump". My view is that Trump won in 2016 because people couldn't stomach Hillary Clinton. Perhaps Biden will win in 2020 because people can't stomach Trump for another four years.

[HSakols]

See leftists really do eat their babies. 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/qanon-book-claiming-democrats-eat-children-is-climbing-the-amazon-charts-2019-03-05

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Excellent post, thank you. It will of course be beyond the ken of some people here, whom I will not name.

+1

[BernardLanguillier]

Alan, even though we butt heads here at times, I totally agree with you. I've watched LuLu activity drop dramatically and it really says something when a political post is the most active post on a photography forum.

Something is just not right here.

Could it be that photographers are an intelligent bunch who realize that the situation in the US now is as serious as the one in Germany in the 30s or that in some Eastern countries in the late 40s or early 50s?

Democracy was taken for granted in those countries too, the populist leaders bringing « change » did have some support also but targeted content delivery on social network hadn’t been made possible yet. Hitler did succeed to a great extent thanks to very elaborate marketing delivered through various means on top of the message « germany is a victim, you are a victim, let’s make the country great again ». A subtle mix of facts, lies and imagined fantasies designed to trigger adherence among the popular classes that would then be sent to die in the battlefields of Europe while Nazi dignitaries were enjoying fine French wines.

Trump supporters are keen to point out how well Trump has been sticking to his commitments (with very selective facts but anyway). And the commitment he has made now is that « he won’t loose unless the election is rigged ». And why not believe him this time also? Except the « loosing » in Trump’s parlance means « accepting defeat » and that, ahead of that, accusing Democrats of « rigging the elections » clearly means that he is busy doing it himself. Liers are well known for accusing others of their own deeds. Anyway you look at it, he intends to try to cheat his way in office. It’s utterly transparent. So if this is not serious enough a situation to trigger passionate discussions here what should?

A valid debate could be how photographers based in the US can use their art to contribute to the awareness of what is going on, but when I raised a question about the personal intent of people if/when Trump goes overboard and attempts to become a full fledged dictator after he looses the election there were very few answers.

I hope it indicates these photographers are busy imagining how they can use their art to express the seriousness of the current situation.

Bit it seems clear that boasting about how great the latest Sony is won’t help either way.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Manoli]

Outlook with just over 40 days to go :

[faberryman]

I like how some of the circles have the state's abbreviation and others don't. Are we more likely to know the states without abbreviations? And Trump would have a field day with a chart like that. Sharpie in hand he could make his re-election unanimous.