US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[James Clark]

Doing business with foreign countries as a private person is the American way.

Alan, who was VP in 2017?

Using your vice presidential position to enrich yourself or your family is an impeachable offense.

Must be fine, however,  to use your presidential position for that?

[faberryman]

Trump was never charged with enrichment nor impeached for it.  The irony is if Biden, a Democrat, is charged with it.

Biden was charged with something? Do you have a link where I can read about that?

[Alan Klein]

Alan, who was VP in 2017?


Must be fine, however,  to use your presidential position for that?

Biden wasn't a private person when the deals with Burisma and China were done.  He was the VP.  I already answered the question about Trump above.

[Alan Klein]

Biden was charged with something? Do you have a link where I can read about that?

Sorry.  You apparently don't understand my post.

[faberryman]

Sorry.  You apparently don't understand my post.

Maybe you could rephrase it. I think you need to explain what you mean by the word "charged".

[Alan Klein]

Maybe you could rephrase it. I think you need to explain what you mean by the word "charged".

Trump was never indicted for enrichment nor impeached for it.  But my main point is that Biden still could be if he did what's being alluded to and becomes president. Although the question then would be can a president be impeached for what he did formally as a vice president?  Interesting legal question.

[faberryman]

Trump was never indicted for enrichment nor impeached for it.  But my main point is that Biden still could be if he did what's being alluded to and becomes president. Although the question then would be can a president be impeached for what he did formally as a vice president?  Interesting legal question.

You initially said Biden “is charged”. Now you say Biden “still could be” charged in the future. Which is it?

[Craig Lamson]

All technically possible, but that's speculation, and it would require that Biden doesn't even have the resources/smarts/etc. to do it "right," which is nonsensical.   What possible reason would he have to commit blatant tax fraud in 2017?  If it was future consideration being held back, so what? Equity is held back all the time.

It’s all speculation James, until we get to the bottom of it, which we may.  Of course that may not happen either.  The techies and MSM have sure worked hard to keep it quiet.

What reason?  Why does anyone decide to break the law?  I submit it’s because they don’t think they will get caught.

One thing is for certain, Biden laid down some pretty clear statements tonight, and if the are false and can be proven, it might com e back to bite him. 

[faberryman]

So does anyone think tonight’s debate changed any votes or helped any undecideds decide?  My own view is that it was a complete waste of time for candidates and viewers alike, and that unless you were a news and politics junkie like some of us, most of the time you wouldn’t have had any idea what either one of them was talking about.

[Peter McLennan]

I agree.  Mostly same old, same old. 

It was, however, obvious that somebody took Trump out to the woodshed before his appearance tonight.

He even got a haircut.  Maybe that'll swing some votes his way.

[John Camp]

Trump had to absolutely demolish Biden to move any votes. He didn't do that. I've been watching CNN and MSNBC and they're pretty strong with the idea that Biden won, but I believe their bias is showing. I think it was dead heat and mostly a waste of time, which amounts to a Biden win, because that's all he had to do.   

[Alan Klein]

I think Trump's relative calmness to the first debate may have given some undecideds the ok to give him the vote.   Biden's going to lose votes in PA,Texas, etc for his comment that he's going to get rid of oil. Reminds me of Hillary's comment about coal.   

[William Walker]

I think Trump's relative calmness to the first debate may have given some undecideds the ok to give him the vote.   Biden's going to lose votes in PA,Texas, etc for his comment that he's going to get rid of oil. Reminds me of Hillary's comment about coal.

So, you would prefer - and it certainly seems to be the case - a candidate who bullshits you? Hilliary Clinton was right about coal...

Wikipedia, the opening lines regarding US coal production:

"Coal mining in the United States is an industry in transition. Production in 2017 was down 33% from the peak production of 1,162.7 million short tons (1,055 million metric tons) in 2006. Employment of 50,000 coal miners is down from a peak of 883,000 in 1923."

[faberryman]

I think Trump's relative calmness to the first debate may have given some undecideds the ok to give him the vote.

Of course, it would only be that sliver of undecideds who have been living under a rock and so haven’t been assaulted daily with the unhinged rantings and ravings of a lunatic for the past five years, and who have decided not to turn on the TV between now and the election, and will therefore miss all of the fireworks, including Trump’s Oscar winning portrayal of a really expensive Roman candle. They are having a convention next week where Tiffany Trump will gush about her dear old dad interminably and really seal the deal. Oh, and they just all happen to live in battleground states, having moved there from North Dakota. Those undecideds? Sure, that’s possible.

[Alan Klein]

So, you would prefer - and it certainly seems to be the case - a candidate who bullshits you? Hilliary Clinton was right about coal...

Wikipedia, the opening lines regarding US coal production:

"Coal mining in the United States is an industry in transition. Production in 2017 was down 33% from the peak production of 1,162.7 million short tons (1,055 million metric tons) in 2006. Employment of 50,000 coal miners is down from a peak of 883,000 in 1923."

She was right about coal but wrong about coal miners.   She showed disdain for their plight of losing their jobs.  So she lost the vote of the common man and the election.

[Alan Klein]

Of course, it would only be that sliver of undecideds who have been living under a rock and so haven’t been assaulted daily with the unhinged rantings and ravings of a lunatic for the past five years, and who have decided not to turn on the TV between now and the election, and will therefore miss all of the fireworks, including Trump’s Oscar winning portrayal of a really expensive Roman candle. They are having a convention next week where Tiffany Trump will gush about her dear old dad and really seal thr deal. Oh, and they just all happen to live in battleground states, having moved there from North Dakota. Those undecideds. Sure, that’s possible.

You may be right.  On the other hand, the 50 million who have voted already don't contain the undecideds.  These would wait until the end at least for the last debate to make up their minds.  Also there will be those who may change their minds because of the debate.

[Craig Lamson]

So does anyone think tonight’s debate changed any votes or helped any undecideds decide?  My own view is that it was a complete waste of time for candidates and viewers alike, and that unless you were a news and politics junkie like some of us, most of the time you wouldn’t have had any idea what either one of them was talking about.

Yea I think it might and it could turn on one single statement by Biden.  He went on and on about how he was not going to end fracking. His plans have us carbon neutral by what, 2035?  So when pushed about not ending fracking he said he was going to "transistion" away from oil.  Thats code for ending the oil industry.  Trump pounced on that and you can bet that in all of the oil states Joe needs to win Trump will beat him about the head with that statement.

The race is getting razor thin in a whole bunch of key states. A point or too could be a big deal.

[faberryman]

So, you would prefer - and it certainly seems to be the case - a candidate who bullshits you? Hilliary Clinton was right about coal.

I’ll cut Trump some slack. Every politician since the French and Indian Wars who has campaigned in West Virginia has said that he is the coal miners’ friend and, if elected, will introduce legislation on his first day in office that requires all appliance manufacturers to make their washers, dryers, refrigerators, and even toasters and carving knives, coal powered. The coal miners don’t believe it for a minute, but it is a tradition, and if you don’t say it, they won’t vote for you. And you don’t even have to say it with a straight face. Hillary wouldn’t say it, something about principles, and the rest is history. I don't know why Hillary suddenly discovered her principles in West Virginia, but I bet you could write a pretty good country music song about it. Wouldn't it be awesome if Hillary sang the song as a duet with Dolly Parton, and it became a big hit?

[Alan Klein]

Hillary calling voters deplorables is not a winning strategy.

[Robert Roaldi]

I didn't watch the "debate", I never watch those things, not even Canadian ones. But I did read parts of some analyses of the debate. After the discussion on these pages in the last 24-36 hours, I was half expecting a mondo Hunter-based attack that would cripple Biden's chances. I gather the topic came up but no KO punch was landed. I presume this must be because Trump is holding back on that, preferring to land a killer Tweet at a more optimum time. We'll see, I guess.

I got a kick out of this article about the pre-show warmup, https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/23/hunter-biden-wins-the-debate-431558. I like all the stuff about manila folders and paper shuffling. All that killer info and they didn't pass it on to FOX or other friendly reporters to make public. Must be Trump's innate sense of chivalry, I guess he doesn't want to win that way. A noble act. I especially like the phone props at one press conference. Since no one was permitted to examine those phones, for all we know they picked them up on kijiji cheap yesterday morning. It would be easy enough to get the MEI numbers of the phones (I think it's called MEI) and trace previous owners to see if they were "real" or "fake" phones. Unless the "deep state" hasn't already tampered with the MEI data base, that is.

Speaking of the "deep state". How is it that the "deep state" can be so miraculously effective that it can thwart Trump's attempts since 2016 to find reasons to jail Hilary, Joe and even Obama. I mean, he is the President after all and a really effective one we're told, and even though his party had the majority in both houses (for a time) and had his own flunkies in key cabinet positions, no progress was made on those files. How can the "deep state" have such super powers even though we're told time and time again how inefficient and incompetent government is? I mean, how can that be.