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Author Topic: Should the US Get Rid of Facebook and other Social Media Outlets?  (Read 4802 times)

kers

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Re: Should the US Get Rid of Facebook and other Social Media Outlets?
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2020, 04:23:55 pm »

if you want to prohibit social media - you also want to prohibit internet ( access)
It is what some dicators do when it turns against them.
You have to accept social media as something from today with the technology of today.
I think the anonymity of postings is indeed an issue; the same issue we see with Bitcoins and SPAM...
probably that would diminish a lot of crap and criminality.
The social companies are balancing between the freedom of speach, the law, and their imago.
It is a natural balance it think, as long there are enough companies to concur.
Traditional media has had many centuries to balance the way they publish; social media is only 20 years old. Needs time to evolve.


...
Trump was pissed off that Twitter started editorializing his tweets, adding warnings and disclaimers to them, and signed an executive order that would strip them of the legal shield as utilities.
a typical next day reaction from a political narcist that wants to be reelected. ( would he have reacted if it concerned somebody else?)
a man with NO plan... (only one)


.. Would you want me deciding whether your ideas should be posted here?  Would you want me deciding whether you're telling the "truth" or not?  :)
...

NO!, rather your wife... ;)
« Last Edit: June 23, 2020, 04:27:24 pm by kers »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Should the US Get Rid of Facebook and other Social Media Outlets?
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2020, 04:29:18 pm »

if you want to prohibit social media - you also want to prohibit internet ( access)
It is what some dicators do when it turns against them.
You have to accept social media as something from today with the technology of today.
I think the anonymity of postings is indeed an issue; the same issue we see with Bitcoins and SPAM...
probably that would diminish a lot of crap and criminality.
The social companies are balancing between the freedom of speach, the law, and their imago.
It is a natural balance it think, as long there are enough companies to concur.
Traditional media has had many centuries to balance the way they publish; social media is only 20 years old. Needs time to evolve.

a typical next day reaction from a narcist political that wants to be reelected.
a man with NO plan, but...


NO!, rather your wife... ;)
American social media is protected by law if not my wife.  Not so in your country or Europe in general. Google and others have been fined for not imposing censorship on their sites. I find it strange that you should be so condemning of Trump or anything we do here along that line when your government censors free speech regularly.

TechTalk

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Re: Should the US Get Rid of Facebook and other Social Media Outlets?
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2020, 04:30:48 pm »

The essence of the ongoing debate is the nature of the social media: are they utilities, like telephone or electricity, or are they publishers, like newspapers or tv.

This excludes the possibilities of being both, or neither, or something else entirely. Binary either/or arguments are the preferred choice of those with a black and white view of the world. Of course, viewing the world as black or white also presents itself in other ways that make living in a connected world more difficult and uglier.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Should the US Get Rid of Facebook and other Social Media Outlets?
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2020, 04:37:37 pm »

This excludes the possibilities of being both, or neither, or something else entirely. Binary either/or arguments are the preferred choice of those with a black and white view of the world. Of course, viewing the world as black or white also presents itself in other ways that make living in a connected world more difficult and uglier.
The NY Times, Washington Post and other newspapers publish newspapers and are on-line.  With printed newspapers, they have complete editorial control as to what's published.  With on-line posts, it varies.  The WP pretty much allows everything to be posted; all the sleaze and vomit posters can throw up.  The NYT reviews your post and if approved will allow its posting.  I don't know how the law handles this situation whether the online portion is handled as a publisher or social media.  Can the paper be sued but not their on-line portion? Does anyone know?

TechTalk

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Re: Should the US Get Rid of Facebook and other Social Media Outlets?
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2020, 04:59:32 pm »

Can the paper be sued but not their on-line portion? Does anyone know?

Is there someone that cares? If there is, I guess it would depend on their motivation and desired outcome. The next step would be to consult an attorney willing to offer advice and opinion on the likelihood of success based on the motivation and desired result.

Lawsuits are often initiated or threatened by those with deep pockets as an intimidation tactic to create fear and/or a chilling effect. Or sometimes, as a way of avoiding paying what is owed or breaking a contract.
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John Camp

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Re: Should the US Get Rid of Facebook and other Social Media Outlets?
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2020, 05:59:31 pm »

Slobo encapsulated what I was saying -- are the social media outlets to be considered utilities or are they publishers? I think it's obvious that they've become publishers, it's just that they don't attempt to control their writers (reporters, authors, whatever they are.) This has led to very serious societal problems, including rampant racism, politicians who deliberately and widely spread discredited conspiracy theories, foreign intervention in our elections, vicious attacks on individuals who have become unpopular for various reasons, widespread efforts to exploit (monetarily and politically) the naive and stupid, and so on. Part of the reason I posted the original comment was a story I read about a public health official who wanted Californians to wear masks. Somebody who opposed masks on ideological grounds posted her personal phone number and email addresses on rightwing sites, and the woman got jammed up with hate mails and calls.

Making social media outlets into publishers wouldn't be outright censorship, it would simply make those outlets responsible for what they put up, or allow people to put up. Think of it as a jobs program for underemployed people -- Facebook alone would have to hire tens of thousands of people to monitor their spaces. You could even soften it a bit -- once something libelous is published, they have three days or a week to take it down without jeopardy. Or you could say that somebody would have to complain about content before it had to be taken down. I also think all postings should come from verified, non-robotic email addresses.

To Slobo -- I'm not agreeing with Trump. He's at war with Twitter for a specific reason. I think Twitter could leave all of his posts up, as long as they don't create for Twitter a legal liability. Or, they could even leave up those that do create a legal liability, if they want to take a chance on going to court.

To Alan -- you said, "Also, you can't sue anyone for opinions which is in essence biased.  You can only sue for defaming someone for libel.  Even then, that only applies to regular people not famous people or people in politics." I think you have the last part of that exactly backwards. Politicians and other celebrities who seek public notice are somewhat restricted in their ability to sue ordinary people for their commentaries, not the other way around. If a celebrity says "Alan acted like an asshole," you can sue him. If you say a celebrity "acted like an asshole," there's a very good chance that the courts would throw our his lawsuit on the grounds that he seeks publicity and he has to take the bad with the good. I think things are somewhat different in Europe and the UK.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Should the US Get Rid of Facebook and other Social Media Outlets?
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2020, 08:15:51 pm »

John,  That's what I meant.  People call politicians Nazis, but they can't sue.   As an aside, a lot of people have called me n asshole but I don't think I can sue.  That's an opinion, not libel.  Libel would be more like calling someone a crook who stole from his boss's company when there's no proof and damaging that personal reputation so he couldn't get a job.  It could be someone famous too who could then sue as some have sued newspapers.  But calling someone a jerk or nasty is just opinion and not sueable.  Otherwise everyone here could be suing everyone else here. :)

John Camp

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Re: Should the US Get Rid of Facebook and other Social Media Outlets?
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2020, 08:44:34 pm »

John,  That's what I meant.  People call politicians Nazis, but they can't sue.   As an aside, a lot of people have called me n asshole but I don't think I can sue.  That's an opinion, not libel.  Libel would be more like calling someone a crook who stole from his boss's company when there's no proof and damaging that personal reputation so he couldn't get a job.  It could be someone famous too who could then sue as some have sued newspapers.  But calling someone a jerk or nasty is just opinion and not sueable.  Otherwise everyone here could be suing everyone else here. :)

Cool.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Should the US Get Rid of Facebook and other Social Media Outlets?
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2020, 10:02:53 pm »

American social media is protected by law if not my wife.  Not so in your country or Europe in general. Google and others have been fined for not imposing censorship on their sites. I find it strange that you should be so condemning of Trump or anything we do here along that line when your government censors free speech regularly.

My guess is that you're characterizing what European countries did (or might do) in a way that suits your point but that is not reality. I may be wrong, of course, but that's my guess.

But the point here is that even if countries enact regulations to control what social media monopolies do in an effort to correct their negative behaviours, I don't see how that impedes free speech. There are still newspapers, magazines, podcasts, web sites, etc., I'm sure free speech will survive. It's not as if Facebook and Twitter and the like are the guardians of people's rights. I think that's going a little far.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Should the US Get Rid of Facebook and other Social Media Outlets?
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2020, 11:34:57 pm »

There is now an uproar about different type of publishing - advertising and selling black T-shirts with all kinds of PC or nonPC signs. Available on Walmart.com.

Like:



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kers

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Re: Should the US Get Rid of Facebook and other Social Media Outlets?
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2020, 04:32:19 am »

dogs lives matter... ai ai
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Should the US Get Rid of Facebook and other Social Media Outlets?
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2020, 06:09:47 am »

...

elliot_n

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Re: Should the US Get Rid of Facebook and other Social Media Outlets?
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2020, 07:04:52 am »

Stop.
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budjames

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Re: Should the US Get Rid of Facebook and other Social Media Outlets?
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2020, 07:41:55 am »

Facebook, Google, Twitter and any other social media platform should be regulated as utilities. Right now, they support posting angry and offensive content as long as it is left leaning or socialist. BLM and Antifa are violet hate groups bent on destroying the nuclear family, Christianity and our government. (Read their websites if you don't believe me). Yet, they censor our President and conservative political and social groups.They allow Planned Parenthood yet remove Pro Life posts. It's terrible. When they are caught, they blame the "algorithm"! This a lie as it is always conservative posts being taken down. It so obvious that they have an agenda and if you are not in agreement with their agenda, you are attacked.

They should be regulated to allow differing view points, even those that are not in alignment with their globalist socialist perspective.

Regards,
Bud James
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 07:46:26 am by budjames »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Should the US Get Rid of Facebook and other Social Media Outlets?
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2020, 08:02:01 am »

My guess is that you're characterizing what European countries did (or might do) in a way that suits your point but that is not reality. I may be wrong, of course, but that's my guess.

But the point here is that even if countries enact regulations to control what social media monopolies do in an effort to correct their negative behaviours, I don't see how that impedes free speech. There are still newspapers, magazines, podcasts, web sites, etc., I'm sure free speech will survive. It's not as if Facebook and Twitter and the like are the guardians of people's rights. I think that's going a little far.
I can't publish a newspaper.  And the NY Times blocks automatic posting of my comments to their on-line paper.  But an on-line forum like Twitter or Facebook (neither of which I use), allows me to state my point just as we do here.  Of course here, we are constricted by what we say based on what a moderator accepts.  He determines negative behavior.  That's OK in a private site.  But as a society, who decides what is negative behavior in a public forum?  You?  Me?  In any case, there's a difference between negative behavior and free speech.  You can't punch someone as an expression of free speech.  But you have to be able to say nasty things otherwise you don;t have free speech.  You don;t need protection of speech that is accepted by the majority.  They're the majority.  Protection is afforded to minority speech that isn't accepted by most people.  You're protecting minority speech rights.  When government restrict speech, and punishes you if you leave their guidelines, that acts to silence free speech.  People are afraid to speak.  The discourages the free interchange of ideas, especially those that are new, different, or at the edge.  Whether you agree with Black Lives Matter, the KKK, the Nazi party, etc, these organizations are allowed to operate freely in the USA as long as they don't act violently.  They can march and say whatever they want.   I doubt if they'd be legal in many European nations.

Alan Klein

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Re: Should the US Get Rid of Facebook and other Social Media Outlets?
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2020, 08:15:20 am »

Facebook, Google, Twitter and any other social media platform should be regulated as utilities. Right now, they support posting angry and offensive content as long as it is left leaning or socialist. BLM and Antifa are violet hate groups bent on destroying the nuclear family, Christianity and our government. (Read their websites if you don't believe me). Yet, they censor our President and conservative political and social groups.They allow Planned Parenthood yet remove Pro Life posts. It's terrible. When they are caught, they blame the "algorithm"! This a lie as it is always conservative posts being taken down. It so obvious that they have an agenda and if you are not in agreement with their agenda, you are attacked.

They should be regulated to allow differing view points, even those that are not in alignment with their globalist socialist perspective.

Regards,
Bud James
I agree with you Bud.  These sites should let all speech be spoken.  Interestingly, Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg agreed.  He said he didn't want Facebook to do what Twitter did getting into political debate.  Then he got so much static, a lot from his own organization's employees, that he modified and backed off that position.  The left has alway controlled the media and while they claim they're for free speech, it's really their speech they want freely expressed.  They have always been in favor of silencing conservative and Republican speech.

This thing is going to wind up in the Supreme Court whether a utility can impose its own rules as to what's spoken.  For example, could a utility like phone company shut down telephone service to an organization who's philosophy they disagree with?  I doubt it. That sounds unconstitutional.  So the question will become can a online utility shut down messages it determines is not in accordance with it's standards?  Congress may have to clarify it in legislation.  Of course, the election will be over before this get settled.  So silencing Trump, the right and conservative thought will continue hot and heavy through November. 

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Should the US Get Rid of Facebook and other Social Media Outlets?
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2020, 08:17:14 am »

Facebook, Google, Twitter and any other social media platform should be regulated as utilities. Right now, they support posting angry and offensive content as long as it is left leaning or socialist. BLM and Antifa are violet hate groups bent on destroying the nuclear family, Christianity and our government. (Read their websites if you don't believe me). Yet, they censor our President and conservative political and social groups.They allow Planned Parenthood yet remove Pro Life posts. It's terrible. When they are caught, they blame the "algorithm"! This a lie as it is always conservative posts being taken down. It so obvious that they have an agenda and if you are not in agreement with their agenda, you are attacked.

They should be regulated to allow differing view points, even those that are not in alignment with their globalist socialist perspective.

Regards,
Bud James

Amen, brother!

faberryman

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Re: Should the US Get Rid of Facebook and other Social Media Outlets?
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2020, 09:55:30 am »

There is now an uproar about different type of publishing - advertising and selling black T-shirts with all kinds of PC or nonPC signs.
I follow the news closely and haven't seen an "uproar" over t-shirts, but I may have missed it. Do you have a link?
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Should the US Get Rid of Facebook and other Social Media Outlets?
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2020, 12:19:38 pm »

Amen, brother!

You seem to be suggesting that people with those beliefs are prevented from posting in those areas. Is this actually true?

It could be that people with those beliefs simply don't choose to post there. Or, maybe there aren't that many in the first place.

If you're claiming discrimination, it needs to be proven.

The line about the President being censored was truly hilarious, however. I suspect his supporters and fellow travellers wish he would shut up more.

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