The Lunacy of German/European Street Photography Laws

[rabanito]

To argue that America was not a perfect democracy back then and compare to European nations seems odd to me.  After all, Germany, England, France, The Netherlands, Spain and other colonialist nations were enslaving entire continents at the time.

Hi Alan.
I think you are quoting the wrong person.
 I was explaining why I don't believe that "Europeans" carry "serfdom genes" in their DNA.
Some people maybe read (or nowadays watch TV) too much and, like Don Quixote, come to fantastic conclusions... 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... I was explaining why I don't believe that "Europeans" carry "serfdom genes" in their DNA...

And you are using Switzerland as a representative for Europe!? A small, hard-to-find on a map country, with negligible impact on Europe, let alone the world (short or hiding criminal money, but even that has ended). A country whose only contribution to humanity are giant holes in cheese!? And time-telling devices nobody uses anymore!?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/30/world/europe/geneva-coronavirus-reopening.html

“A Mile-Long Line for Free Food in Geneva, One of World’s Richest Cities”

[rabanito]

And you are using Switzerland as a representative for Europe!? A small, hard-to-find on a map country, with negligible impact on Europe, let alone the world (short or hiding criminal money, but even that has ended). A country whose only contribution to humanity are giant holes in cheese!? And time-telling devices nobody uses anymore!?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/30/world/europe/geneva-coronavirus-reopening.html

“A Mile-Long Line for Free Food in Geneva, One of World’s Richest Cities”

Looks like you are getting nervous and short of crossing the red line Slobodan
You made a silly assertion at the beginning and I explained why I think you were wrong.
If you cannot stay at adult level, there is no point in continuing the argumentation.
Take care

[Rob C]

And you are using Switzerland as a representative for Europe!? A small, hard-to-find on a map country, with negligible impact on Europe, let alone the world (short or hiding criminal money, but even that has ended). A country whose only contribution to humanity are giant holes in cheese!? And time-telling devices nobody uses anymore!?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/30/world/europe/geneva-coronavirus-reopening.html

“A Mile-Long Line for Free Food in Geneva, One of World’s Richest Cities”

In my case, only because mine was ripped off my wrist in the street!

That stolen Submariner was beautiful and useful, and ergonomically wonderful. The rebadged Seiko that I bought to replace it looks, to Joe Soap, identical. Boy, is he mistaken: the logo is too large and its shape confuses me every time the hour hand is near it: is it indicating 11 or 12? My Sub had no calendar, and I wish this new thing didn't either; it, too, gets in the way. (This is starting to feel like a paean to the simplicity of an M3!) The rotating bezel only rotates in one direction and is stiff as hell. That single direction of rotation plays havoc with rapid figuring of where to set it to mark elapsed time or time to run; awful! The Swiss original is a work of art, the rip off not. (But, its clasp is more secure - had my Rolex had similar, perhaps it would still be on my wrist today.) Actually, a watch or a clock are the only devices around here that I do use by which to tell the time; my cellphone is always off unless I need to use it and ditto everything else electronic. Life without a watch feels terrible, which is why I could only survive about six weks or so before giving in and buying a replacemement after the theft here.

The watch is not dead. The good Swiss one is still art.

[jeremyrh]

Here's an actual question to which I don't know the answer. Assuming that the kinds of riots that we are currently experiencing in the U.S., were happening in Germany, exactly what restrictions would be placed on using riot photos (with recognizable faces) in an art show or in journalism? Does anybody have any idea?

Here is an example from Germany. Of course it is not strictly comparable to the US situation as the policeman seems to be talking to the old lady, not beating her with a stick.

[LesPalenik]

That soldier seems to be suffering from a serious sleep deprivation, but the ladies look very assertive.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Here is an example from Germany. Of course it is not strictly comparable to the US situation as the policeman seems to be talking to the old lady, not beating her with a stick

What a moronic comment, like the police in the US would beat her.

There are hundreds of pictures from the States, in addition to the three examples below:

[jeremyrh]

What a moronic comment, like the police in the US would beat her.

What a moronic comment, like the police in the US don't beat old people.

[LesPalenik]

What a moronic comment, like the police in the US would beat her.

Nah, they don't beat them now, they shoot them.

On Friday night, photojournalist Linda Tirado was shot in the eye by a rubber bullet while covering an anti-police brutality protest in Minneapolis — one of more than two dozen incidents of journalists experiencing violence while covering the recent demonstrations.

Also, CBC's Susan Ormiston was shot in the shoulder with a rubber bullet while standing in a parking lot that was already cleared of protestors.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2020/5/31/21276013/police-targeted-journalists-covering-george-floyd-protests

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

What a moronic comment, like the police in the US don't beat old people.

Example?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Nah, they don't beat them now, they shoot them...

Les, are you seriously using stray bullets as a proof that police is beating/shooting old people?

[jeremyrh]

Example?

https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1266908354821206016?s=20

[rabanito]

Hmmm...Not valid IMHO
The terrorist with the white hair is wielding a stick as big as a walking cane.
The policeman felt threatened.

[LesPalenik]

Les, are you seriously using stray bullets as a proof that police is beating/shooting old people?

Well, if you get shot, a stray bullet hurts as much as an intended one.
Here is a tweet from Adolfo Guzman-Lopez with a graphic picture, who was shot in the neck while interviewing a protester.

https://twitter.com/AGuzmanLopez?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1267269781805137920&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Flaist.com%2F2020%2F05%2F31%2Freporters_injured_protests_police.php

[JoeKitchen]

Well, this topic strayed far of course! 

[LesPalenik]

Well, this topic strayed far of course!

All because of two old ladies.

[rabanito]

Well, this topic strayed far of course!

A pity. There had been some very interesting opinions on the subject proper, some food for thought.

In "normal" societies, such as mine, but also on the other side of the Atlantic, I dare say, the rules reflect their idiosyncrasy.
The rules on street photography are based on the society, not on the wishes of some imaginary despots creating laws to keep their subjects on a short leash.
If we would disagree with the actual norms, we would change them. Period. That doesn't seem to be the case. Other societies, other models.
If you point your feet to a statue of Buddha, in some societies  it could be considered offensive.
If you are in Asia, do as the Asians do. If in Europe , do as the Europeans do.
Just MHO

[Alan Klein]

I think the German policemen will only arrest you if you're shooting with a Nikon or Canon rather than a Leica. 

[Alan Klein]

A pity. There had been some very interesting opinions on the subject proper, some food for thought.

In "normal" societies, such as mine, but also on the other side of the Atlantic, I dare say, the rules reflect their idiosyncrasy.
The rules on street photography are based on the society, not on the wishes of some imaginary despots creating laws to keep their subjects on a short leash.
If we would disagree with the actual norms, we would change them. Period. That doesn't seem to be the case. Other societies, other models.
If you point your feet to a statue of Buddha, in some societies  it could be considered offensive.
If you are in Asia, do as the Asians do. If in Europe , do as the Europeans do.
Just MHO

The thing is despots or even local ego-narcissist politicians cannot make illegal laws as they try to be little Caesars.  Our Constitution protects free speech which is what shooting pictures in public is all about.  For example, the video of the cop with his boot on the guy's neck would not be allowed in other countries.  How easy it would be for leaders to outlaw activities that might show their administration in a bad light.  Isn't that what happens in one-party countries?  Well, even in democratically elected nations, politicians don't want to be embarrassed.  So outlawing activities like public photography, or how about public speech demeaning the government, becomes something they'd like to prohibit.  Discussions we're having today about Facebook and Twitter fits into the same arguments.  Are you going to be a society that encourages open debate, open criticism, open photography, or are you going to have one that clamps down on those activities to protect those in power?

[rabanito]

  For example, the video of the cop with his boot on the guy's neck would not be allowed in other countries.  How easy it would be for leaders to outlaw activities that might show their administration in a bad light.  Isn't that what happens in one-party countries? 

On the other hand, Alan, there are justifiable reasons for policemen doing their duty for not liking being identified.
Mafias, clans, parallel societies can take revenge, extort, threaten etc once they got their number.
One should be careful when taking pictures of security forces at work, one should also protect those who protect us.