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Author Topic: Review on the HP Z9 Plus DR finally up  (Read 5509 times)

neil snape

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Review on the HP Z9 Plus DR finally up
« on: May 13, 2020, 10:55:55 am »

Just trying to be helpful. There is so little information on this printer. I finally posted my review on it. I will update it when I receive some new media. With lock down it has not been possible, although that time did allow me to write it!

Here is the review on my site HP Designjet Z9 Plus DR

If you have questions I'll do my best to answer.
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John Hollenberg

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Re: Review on the HP Z9 Plus DR finally up
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2020, 02:15:54 pm »

Quote
From your review:

"Yet the results are off. Redoing the calibration or redoing the ICC profile didn’t change results of the ICC profile are just not right."

In what way were the results "off"?

Quote
"I took the time to print charts out for making profiles in X-Rite i1 Profiler. Big problem, the printer has no option for no color correction print correction. It alters prints with no profile attached. Impossible to send an untagged chart through Adobe Print Utility, thus impossible to have a no correction path."

This is probably a deal breaker for me.  What is HP thinking?
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Review on the HP Z9 Plus DR finally up
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2020, 02:53:50 pm »

If the printer cannot create good ICC profiles and you have to use a kludge to make manual profiles, how can you give this a good review?
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stevenfr

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Re: Review on the HP Z9 Plus DR finally up
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2020, 03:03:38 pm »

In the testing I did the colour gamut was less than my Canon ipf8400. Any thoughts?

John Hollenberg

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Re: Review on the HP Z9 Plus DR finally up
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2020, 03:09:59 pm »

In the testing I did the colour gamut was less than my Canon ipf8400. Any thoughts?

On what paper?  How did the reduced gamut manifest in actual prints?  Landscape greens?  Brightly colored flowers?
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stevenfr

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Re: Review on the HP Z9 Plus DR finally up
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2020, 03:13:46 pm »

Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta was the paper I used. I sent my files with my prints and asked three HP labs including Barcelona to match my prints. They could not match the gamut from my ipf8400. Generally it was the brighter more saturated colours that it could not match. Maybe because this printer is a 9 ink vs the 12 in the 8400.

Remko

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Re: Review on the HP Z9 Plus DR finally up
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2020, 04:01:17 pm »

If the printer cannot create good ICC profiles and you have to use a kludge to make manual profiles, how can you give this a good review?

Note that when Neil reported this issue, Mark McCormick-Goodhart (MHMG as user name) responded that he did not recognize this issue at all with his Z9+ DR printer. That was on DPReview. You can find that here: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63886070
Also Mark Lindquist is able to make ICC profiles with the onboard i1.

So - for whatever reason - it looks like an issue with Neil's printer.

cheers,
Remko
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John Hollenberg

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Re: Review on the HP Z9 Plus DR finally up
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2020, 05:17:05 pm »

Note that when Neil reported this issue, Mark McCormick-Goodhart (MHMG as user name) responded that he did not recognize this issue at all with his Z9+ DR printer.

Thanks for that link.  That makes Neil's review not very useful for those trying to decide whether to buy an HP printer... although I am pretty sure I don't want to buy his printer.  ;)
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deanwork

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Re: Review on the HP Z9 Plus DR finally up
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2020, 05:17:15 pm »

It seems he’s saying the custom onboard profiles were not as accurate as the generic profiles he received. That’s strange. Somethings not right with the settings or the software.

Neil seems to think the gloss differential that I and Mark M. were seeing with the fine art pearl more ink media setting was not apparent in his Photorag Baryta media. That’s interesting. Both the bw and color test prints I had done were not acceptable on Platine from the same files that looked very nice on the Z3200,  and older  Canon and Epson printers ( best on the Z3200 ) . So I don’t know if they tweaked something or he used a different media setting or what.

I have to say the dual drop smoothness looked great on both color and bw with no dots or coarseness at all. I was especially surprised at how good the monochrome high value ramp looked with one less gray.

John



quote author=Remko link=topic=134954.msg1170770#msg1170770 date=1589400077]
Note that when Neil reported this issue, Mark McCormick-Goodhart (MHMG as user name) responded that he did not recognize this issue at all with his Z9+ DR printer. That was on DPReview. You can find that here: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63886070
Also Mark Lindquist is able to make ICC profiles with the onboard i1.

So - for whatever reason - it looks like an issue with Neil's printer.

cheers,
Remko
[/quote]
« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 05:35:21 pm by deanwork »
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MHMG

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Re: Review on the HP Z9 Plus DR finally up
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2020, 05:43:15 pm »

If the printer cannot create good ICC profiles and you have to use a kludge to make manual profiles, how can you give this a good review?

I know Neil knows what he's doing, so for the life of me, I don't know why he and I are getting such different results on our Z9dr 44 inch units. It's like we are describing two different printer models!  My problem areas have to do with inconsistent roll handling of fine art media. My printer unit is losing the feed at times when coming in and out of the "parked" position with thicker/stiffer media, no problems with RC media, and Roll 1 and Roll 2 positions also have somewhat different probabilities for losing role position as their roll feeding paths are physically different. Roll 1 position has an inverted curve roll feed path while Roll 2 is almost a straight through path. I am currently working with HP support to try to resolve my roll handling issues, but I'm also beginning to find workarounds as well, so ultimately I will cope with these roll handling deficiencies if they can't be fully resolved only because the print quality is really impressive. Hard for me to totally reject a printer when I can get amazing image quality from it.

I also have no problems printing a true "no color adjust mode" target from Adobe Color Printer Utility. And like Neil, I'm using Mac Mojave (last update before Catalina), so it's hard to say why Neil was unable to make a no color adjust workflow perform correctly while it is working properly for me. To be fair, I did have some inconsistent results with no color adjust mode using Qimage One's no color adjust feature. Sometimes worked, sometimes didn't, but that may be some sort of sticky/not sticky software setting issue with Q1. I don't know for sure. I also gave up using Q1 on the Z9 because it had a small but unacceptable scaling error that it doesn't have when sending the same file to my Z3200, Canon, or Epson printers. Q1 software team thus lays the blame for the error on the HP Z9 driver, but Adobe software (e.g., both PSCC and Adobe Acrobat reader) scales images perfectly to the Z9, so I rather suspect HP would likewise lay the blame for the scaling problem on Q1. :) Also, I ran a demo of ImagePrint Red which relies on the HP driver as well. Again, scaling to the Z9 was perfect.

As for color gamut and profiling issues: I always start my custom profiling efforts with an initial profile built using the venerable TC918 color target because it's really easy to spot whether the TC918 visually ordered array of colors got color managed or not. I am able to make excellent ICC profiles for the Z9 stepping outside of the HP spectrophotometer/internal profile generation pathway, using only the HP color calibration step to get a proper baseline for building the custom profile. That said, the Z9 spectrophotometer-generated 464 patch ICC profiles are not poor by any means. Indeed, both Mark Linquist and I have been amazed at how good they are using just 464 patches. I'm finding it really hard to do better, and at this point, I'm finding less and less incentive to try.  ;D Mark L. and I both agree that it's probably because the Z9 ink ramps are so well linearized to begin with, that HP can get away with a much smaller patch count than most color management experts would consider enough patches for an outstanding profile.

I also looked hard for any differences in how HP Z9 runs neutral gray patches in full color mode compared to the Z3200 which has always had a fantastic reputation for B&W output. I was worried that the Z9 giving up the light gray ink channel would get compensated by blending color inks into the screening pattern, or that the overall smoothness would come up short. Neither concern happened. Looking at the grayscale output when printing if full color mode, it appears HP has not deviated from full GCR approach it began with the Z3200. Under high magnification, I can only see gray dots printed in neutral color patches. I see no color dots showing up anywhere. The dual nozzle "pixel control" technology does indeed give the Z9 back in quality what otherwise might have been lost by elimination of LM, LC, and LG inks. And the visual perception when looking at the prints is that they are sharper and smoother overall compared to the Z3200, albeit the Z3200 was so good, that the benefit is subtle. But my point is the Z9 definitely didn't go backwards in image quality.  Neutral B&W printing in full color mode is every bit as impressive as what I get on my Z3200PS. Thus, again, it mystifies me why Neil and I seem to be describing machines with very different apparent output behaviors. I swear - I Really do have the Z9+ dual role with vertical trimmer model in my studio today, i.e the same one as Neil :)

One last point: I haven't tested MK media settings to any appreciable extent, but I have gone through all the PK media settings exhaustively, looking at how they impact the ink loads and consequently the color gamut and smoothness of the ICC profile. It turns out that even though there are several PK media choices, HP programmed only two different ink ramps for PK media. It's probably the same situation for MK media, but I haven't checked yet. The large number of default media presets thus really exist only to correspond to HP branded media. Mostly, they modify other mechanical properties like media thickness (normal or thick), star wheel position (up, center, down), and dry time. Because these mechanical/physical properties are all user addressable when creating a custom preset and are subject to empirical enduser testing anyway when using non HP branded media, whereas ink ramps are not noted and not adjustable by the enduser, knowing which presets invoke which ink load is very important for maximum quality output! I had to test the various choices to figure this out. It was time consuming and frustrating because so many media choice settings produced identical output! I was beginning to think certain settings were just getting stuck and not changing, but retracing my steps produced same results. Only two ink ramps exist for PK media.  I doubt many HP sales reps know this stuff given how many different HP printers they have to demo to prospective customers. 

My gamut volume measurements proved that these two unique inking tables are a very important consideration for endusers looking for max color gamut on third party media. Only the higher ink load should be chosen on the Z9. The Z9 manual doesn't reveal which setting is which, AFAIK, and the naming conventions don't provide solid clues.   For example, the generic "Fine Art Photo Pearl (more ink)" media setting invokes the higher ink load so "more ink" is a clue, yet rather bewilderingly, the more specific-sounding "Photo Baryte paper" setting whose name conjures up memories of the high Dmax darkroom papers of an earlier era uses the lesser ink load. Thus, if using a third party paper like Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta, it would seem logical to choose the fine art "Photo Baryte paper" setting, but you'd be wrong!  Go figure.

cheers,
Mark
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John Hollenberg

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Re: Review on the HP Z9 Plus DR finally up
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2020, 06:29:58 pm »

My gamut volume measurements proved that these two unique inking tables are a very important consideration for endusers looking for max color gamut on third party media. Only the higher ink load should be chosen on the Z9. For example, the generic "Fine Art Photo Pearl (more ink)" media setting invokes the higher ink load so "more ink" is a clue, yet rather bewilderingly, the more specific-sounding "Photo Baryte paper" setting whose name conjures up memories of the high Dmax darkroom papers of an earlier era uses the lesser ink load. Thus, if using a third party paper like Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta, it would seem logical to choose the fine art "Photo Baryte paper" setting, but you'd be wrong!   

In another post somewhere you mentioned that the gloss differential was unacceptable using the higher ink load ("Fine Art Photo Pearl (more ink)" media setting) for H. Photo Rag Baryta.  Is that still your opinion?
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MHMG

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Re: Review on the HP Z9 Plus DR finally up
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2020, 07:11:38 pm »

In another post somewhere you mentioned that the gloss differential was unacceptable using the higher ink load ("Fine Art Photo Pearl (more ink)" media setting) for H. Photo Rag Baryta.  Is that still your opinion?

I haven't printed on Photo Rag Baryta for a long time, on any printer for that matter, so I don't think it's me that said that. Definitely haven't used it on the Z9. If I did mention that paper in another thread, I must have misspoken about the name of the actual paper I intended to talk about.

I do have the optional gloss Enhancer kit installed on my Z9. It does a good, albeit not totally perfect job on the fine art non RC media I have have tried. All the printer manufacturers are dialing in their GE or GO clearcoat technologies for RC glossy/satin media. HP Z9 is no exception. Fine art luster/glossy media never work quite as well because the amount of clearcoat being applied is too low in final coating thickness to be fully effective. So, the Z9 GE coating is definitely competitive with other printers like the Canon Pro-4000 but none are perfect on all media, yet they can be exceptionally good on RC glossy media. The Z3200 still edges out all the other clearcoat capable printers, IMO, mainly because the Z3200 driver gives the enduser some inking level control on GE coating thickness and also the global ink limits as well.  Z9 takes that flexibility away (its on or off, no more no less) which brings it on a par with the competition but not any better.

For those here with an operational Z3200, I still personally believe it's the best choice for a small volume fine art printmaker. keep it going as long as you can! Z9 has other great qualities and generally speaking, really outstanding image quality on a range of media, but Z3200 is still my preferred printer simply because it offers so much individual control and profiling capability.

cheers,
Mark
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deanwork

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Re: Review on the HP Z9 Plus DR finally up
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2020, 08:03:46 pm »

I sure hope HP will still offer parts and repair for the Z3200. I have become so attached to mine.

 I’m pretty ignorant about the fine points of firmware capability, but it seems to me that  these concerns - gloss overcoat smoothness, expanded patch count,  and precision ink limit controls, could be refined and expanded in a color center redesign that would pay more attention to results on the “ fiber gloss” media that are for many of us the primary papers being used in the so called fine art realm these days , even for black and white. Very few people ask me for matte media anymore, as much as I love it.

As for rc media my old Canon does a great job with no over coat at all, and Epson is good too.





For those here with an operational Z3200, I still personally believe it's the best choice for a small volume fine art printmaker. keep it going as long as you can! Z9 has other great qualities and generally speaking, really outstanding image quality on a range of media, but Z3200 is still my preferred printer simply because it offers so much individual control and profiling capability.

cheers,
Mark
[/quote]
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Review on the HP Z9 Plus DR finally up
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2020, 06:08:39 am »

I know Neil knows what he's doing, so for the life of me, I don't know why he and I are getting such different results on our Z9dr 44 inch units. It's like we are describing two different printer models!  My problem areas have to do with inconsistent roll handling of fine art media. My printer unit is losing the feed at times when coming in and out of the "parked" position with thicker/stiffer media, no problems with RC media, and Roll 1 and Roll 2 positions also have somewhat different probabilities for losing role position as their roll feeding paths are physically different. Roll 1 position has an inverted curve roll feed path while Roll 2 is almost a straight through path. I am currently working with HP support to try to resolve my roll handling issues, but I'm also beginning to find workarounds as well, so ultimately I will cope with these roll handling deficiencies if they can't be fully resolved only because the print quality is really impressive. Hard for me to totally reject a printer when I can get amazing image quality from it.

I also have no problems printing a true "no color adjust mode" target from Adobe Color Printer Utility. And like Neil, I'm using Mac Mojave (last update before Catalina), so it's hard to say why Neil was unable to make a no color adjust workflow perform correctly while it is working properly for me. To be fair, I did have some inconsistent results with no color adjust mode using Qimage One's no color adjust feature. Sometimes worked, sometimes didn't, but that may be some sort of sticky/not sticky software setting issue with Q1. I don't know for sure. I also gave up using Q1 on the Z9 because it had a small but unacceptable scaling error that it doesn't have when sending the same file to my Z3200, Canon, or Epson printers. Q1 software team thus lays the blame for the error on the HP Z9 driver, but Adobe software (e.g., both PSCC and Adobe Acrobat reader) scales images perfectly to the Z9, so I rather suspect HP would likewise lay the blame for the scaling problem on Q1. :) Also, I ran a demo of ImagePrint Red which relies on the HP driver as well. Again, scaling to the Z9 was perfect.

As for color gamut and profiling issues: I always start my custom profiling efforts with an initial profile built using the venerable TC918 color target because it's really easy to spot whether the TC918 visually ordered array of colors got color managed or not. I am able to make excellent ICC profiles for the Z9 stepping outside of the HP spectrophotometer/internal profile generation pathway, using only the HP color calibration step to get a proper baseline for building the custom profile. That said, the Z9 spectrophotometer-generated 464 patch ICC profiles are not poor by any means. Indeed, both Mark Linquist and I have been amazed at how good they are using just 464 patches. I'm finding it really hard to do better, and at this point, I'm finding less and less incentive to try.  ;D Mark L. and I both agree that it's probably because the Z9 ink ramps are so well linearized to begin with, that HP can get away with a much smaller patch count than most color management experts would consider enough patches for an outstanding profile.

I also looked hard for any differences in how HP Z9 runs neutral gray patches in full color mode compared to the Z3200 which has always had a fantastic reputation for B&W output. I was worried that the Z9 giving up the light gray ink channel would get compensated by blending color inks into the screening pattern, or that the overall smoothness would come up short. Neither concern happened. Looking at the grayscale output when printing if full color mode, it appears HP has not deviated from full GCR approach it began with the Z3200. Under high magnification, I can only see gray dots printed in neutral color patches. I see no color dots showing up anywhere. The dual nozzle "pixel control" technology does indeed give the Z9 back in quality what otherwise might have been lost by elimination of LM, LC, and LG inks. And the visual perception when looking at the prints is that they are sharper and smoother overall compared to the Z3200, albeit the Z3200 was so good, that the benefit is subtle. But my point is the Z9 definitely didn't go backwards in image quality.  Neutral B&W printing in full color mode is every bit as impressive as what I get on my Z3200PS. Thus, again, it mystifies me why Neil and I seem to be describing machines with very different apparent output behaviors. I swear - I Really do have the Z9+ dual role with vertical trimmer model in my studio today, i.e the same one as Neil :)

One last point: I haven't tested MK media settings to any appreciable extent, but I have gone through all the PK media settings exhaustively, looking at how they impact the ink loads and consequently the color gamut and smoothness of the ICC profile. It turns out that even though there are several PK media choices, HP programmed only two different ink ramps for PK media. It's probably the same situation for MK media, but I haven't checked yet. The large number of default media presets thus really exist only to correspond to HP branded media. Mostly, they modify other mechanical properties like media thickness (normal or thick), star wheel position (up, center, down), and dry time. Because these mechanical/physical properties are all user addressable when creating a custom preset and are subject to empirical enduser testing anyway when using non HP branded media, whereas ink ramps are not noted and not adjustable by the enduser, knowing which presets invoke which ink load is very important for maximum quality output! I had to test the various choices to figure this out. It was time consuming and frustrating because so many media choice settings produced identical output! I was beginning to think certain settings were just getting stuck and not changing, but retracing my steps produced same results. Only two ink ramps exist for PK media.  I doubt many HP sales reps know this stuff given how many different HP printers they have to demo to prospective customers. 

My gamut volume measurements proved that these two unique inking tables are a very important consideration for endusers looking for max color gamut on third party media. Only the higher ink load should be chosen on the Z9. The Z9 manual doesn't reveal which setting is which, AFAIK, and the naming conventions don't provide solid clues.   For example, the generic "Fine Art Photo Pearl (more ink)" media setting invokes the higher ink load so "more ink" is a clue, yet rather bewilderingly, the more specific-sounding "Photo Baryte paper" setting whose name conjures up memories of the high Dmax darkroom papers of an earlier era uses the lesser ink load. Thus, if using a third party paper like Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta, it would seem logical to choose the fine art "Photo Baryte paper" setting, but you'd be wrong!  Go figure.

cheers,
Mark

Mark,

It could be that the firmware/drivers differ between Neil's and your machine.  Maybe Neil has an early version from Barcelona. Just a guess.

With German Etching 44" rolls I have similar problems on the Z3200-PS. The more when the core of the roll comes in sight and the paper was stocked longer. I think the Alpha Cellulose papers are more prone to get rigid in time so the curl is less flexible. Also the fibers underneath, where the transport axle has to bite in, are shorter and come loose. The corners of the leading edge can also bend in between the black plastic ribs and the transport axle, so do not glide on the plastic ribs. All that combined may cause the problem. I have way less issues with cotton papers that are even heavier in weight. With the Epson 10000 the transport axle was thicker and the axle texture rougher, never had a problem like that on that machine but a lot of other problems.

Mike is more and more integrating the OEM printer drivers into Qimage and that is not a good thing for HP printer drivers. From the beginning of that change I commented that I did not like that integration. I asked for some remedies over time and one I got is the shift/click on the QU printer properties icon that sets the printer driver back to the default settings while keeping the QU settings outside the printer driver unchanged. There is another reset in QU that sets all things back to defaults. My last step before printing is controlling the printer driver settings again and OK there before hitting the print icon. Which makes the whole printer driver integration a farce for HP users. I am sure that I can print unprofiled targets that way but I prefer using HP Print Utility anyway. The scaling error I observed in a recent QU version too, when a Photsoshop Tiff etc has a virtual size and an odd PPI say 237,44 then the reported size in QU is larger than in Photoshop. Something with the rounding off between imperial and metric? Another odd thing was two similar Tiffs, same color space etc, same Photoshop Red RGB numbers and a visual difference in the Thumbnail reds but printing the same red with perceptual rendering.

Could the old Z3100/Z3200 specification PDFs of which inks and ink limits are used in media selections be of any help here? Or are there PDFs like that for the Z9+ ?
On your earlier observation that the Z9+ gamut lost a bit more in the dark colors and not in the pastel colors and that contrary to what one would expect with the substitution of the light inks by smaller droplets of heavier inks; maybe HP went for a slightly less pigmented ink range to get it right for the pastel colors and sacrificed the other end a bit that way.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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MHMG

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Re: Review on the HP Z9 Plus DR finally up
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2020, 07:59:35 am »

Mark,

...On your earlier observation that the Z9+ gamut lost a bit more in the dark colors and not in the pastel colors and that contrary to what one would expect with the substitution of the light inks by smaller droplets of heavier inks; maybe HP went for a slightly less pigmented ink range to get it right for the pastel colors and sacrificed the other end a bit that way.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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HI Ernst,

My earlier remarks about noticeable gamut volume shrinking in the shadow areas still holds true somewhat, but now that I have a better handle on how to invoke the greater of the Z9's two ink ramps, I've started to return to my gamut volume/shape studies with a fresher perspective. I'm using a Canon Pro-1000 as a comparative benchmark as well as the Z3200, and like everything Z9 related, it's not cut and dried. Z9 actually wins with some PK media compared to Pro-1000, and loses a little with others, but by invoking the higher ink load ramp, I'm not nearly as concerned about color gamut reduction as I was when I first started evaluating the Z9.  HPZ3200 using default media settings is now comparable to Z9 and vice versa, but with the Z3200, enduser can push the global ink limits higher with custom settings, whereas HP took GIL and the GE control sliders away in the Z9.  So, with custom settings made with global ink limits pushed harder on the Z3200, Z3200 still edges out Z9 in shadow areas on some media, but Z9 rather surprisingly beats the Z3200 in highlight areas in most cases.

All that said, the differences are pretty subtle.  In some cases, carrying through to actual pictorial images with bold colors, the practical effects of gamut volume differences get lost in translation. All three prints from my three printers being used in this comparative study produce lovely output. It almost boils down to which image one has picked as to which print looks best. And in showing the results to regular folks who don't obsess over image quality like I do, their choices for which print is best are just about as consistent as the toss of the coin!. 

I still have to go through testing with the MK settings. Rinse and repeat!

cheers,
Mark
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 08:21:46 am by MHMG »
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Remko

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Re: Review on the HP Z9 Plus DR finally up
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2020, 09:30:30 am »

HI Ernst,

My earlier remarks about noticeable gamut volume shrinking in the shadow areas still holds true somewhat, but now that I have a better handle on how to invoke the greater of the Z9's two ink ramps, I've started to return to my gamut volume/shape studies with a fresher perspective.....

Thank you so much, Mark, your insights are invaluable!

cheers,
Remko
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Mark Lindquist

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Re: Review on the HP Z9 Plus DR finally up
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2020, 01:20:23 pm »

First, I must say that Neil has done a thorough job of reporting on the features and issues of the Z9+ 44” printer - Thanks Neil, I know how much work it is to organize information the way you have, and your remarks are clear and concise.

I know that there have been issues with the 44” models that users have had - particularly from speaking with Mark McCormick. I admire how Mark M has stuck to his guns and has been doggedly determined to work with HP support at many levels to report issues and work toward finding solutions. Mark’s  assessment of the printer’s capabilities is spot on. We have done initial testing together to compare results and have come to the same conclusions. Additionally I have done minimal testing for John Dean who will confirm the black and white success of the Z9+ Keeping in mind that my testing is done on the 24 inch model. Mark M has taken the bull by the horns and continues to perform invaluable testing - incredible work, and careful documentation as evidenced by his replies here on this thread and others. Thank you Mark M, you are an amazing resource, along with many others here on LuLa.

I have few to no issues making custom profiles “in house” with the 24” Z9+, and both Mark M and I have good success using the 464 patch target i1 spectro to make internal profiles. When going above and beyond, it’s a simple matter of using the Z3200ps model in tandem to make extended profiles with great success.

The printer has its issues and quirks, just as they all do. There’s a relatively steep learning curve to to go to advanced level profile making, and wide paper loading, etc., but there were issues loading the Z3200’s at first, remembering Ernst Dinkla’s solution of loading sheets straight through on top of rolls or on top of the spindle, eschewing HP’s presribed method. I’ve said it many times, these machines are predominantly roll  paper printers, and sheety loading has always been an after thought and never properly dealt with. The very best sheet loading printer I’ve owned and used was the Epson 4800 Pro with it’s 17 x 22 inch cassette tray which was bullet proof and a joy to use when printing multiple sheets. I’ve suggested HP include a cassette option with both the Z3200 and the Z9, to no avail.

The Z9+ is an entirely different beast compared to the Z3200. There are positives and negatives about both machines. Now comparing them is apples and oranges. They are both great printers in my mind, hence my sticking with both. You can definitely get under the hood to work on the Z3200’s - the Z9, not so much. Either way, output on both printers is awesome, and ink longevity on carefully matched media is king of the hill.

After using my Z9+ 24 inch printer for many months now, and particularly doing a major project requiring over 750 prints, I am pleased to say I’m thrilled with the Z9+ 24” performance.

I stick with what I said in my early overview of the printer:

Lindquist review of the HP 24” Z9+ printer

Thank you all for keeping an open mind about the Z9+. I’m committed to working with HP to help improve their printers, and I’m hoping that all the design team and manufacturing employees, as well as management come through this pandemic unscathed.

Stay smart and stay safe. Thanks again, everyone searching for answers and trying to understand this new breed of printer.

Mark Lindquist
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Remko

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Re: Review on the HP Z9 Plus DR finally up
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2020, 04:12:39 pm »

I have few to no issues making custom profiles “in house” with the 24” Z9+, and both Mark M and I have good success using the 464 patch target i1 spectro to make internal profiles.

Can you say a bit more, Mark, about the "few to no issues" making profiles with the onboard i1? What are they?

The printer has its issues and quirks, just as they all do. There’s a relatively steep learning curve to to go to advanced level profile making, and wide paper loading, etc.

Care to elaborate more about the steep learning curve, typically for the Z9+?

I am very positive about this printer and am eager to learn more about it.
Thank you so much in advance.

cheers,
Remko
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Re: Review on the HP Z9 Plus DR finally up
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2020, 05:28:01 pm »

Can you say a bit more, Mark, about the "few to no issues" making profiles with the onboard i1? What are they?

Care to elaborate more about the steep learning curve, typically for the Z9+?

I am very positive about this printer and am eager to learn more about it.
Thank you so much in advance.

cheers,
Remko

The only issues I have had with making profiles using the internal system is pilot error. If I have chosen the incorrect setting for a substrate (read Mark M's post), or I haven't chosen a setting correctly when making the profile. I really could have said there are NO issues using the i1 spectro - but that takes human error out of the equation. Essentially no problems other than my own mistakes.

The learning curve is steep if you don't have experience printing with a closed loop fully color managed system, but the same could be said regarding all wide format printers. Fooling with paper loading is a pain and it requires good kung-fu to get it right, and after learning what works best, for roll and sheet loading, gradually one becomes more comfortable with the printer. This means developing work-arounds ( I can't go into it but if you search on the forum you might find where I made a simple stick-on fence to load sheet paper from the platform successfully 99% of the time).

It takes a bit of learning to use the HP Utility if you haven't used it before. Also, getting used to the printer menu and the embedded web server takes time to understand and learn, thus a learning curve perhaps more steep for some than others. It may not be as bad as I made it seem, but it can be tricky and takes a little getting used to.
No big deal really. In order to use all wide format printers, the process requires commitment to learning about the printer and improving skills. The same as making photos. The printer is a big part of making photos for me. Unless the image is printed, it's not a photograph the way I look at it (in my world). So much more is required above and beyond any other use of an image such as jpeg for web, screen images, etc.

Just my take on it - FWIW/YMMV

_Mark

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Remko

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Re: Review on the HP Z9 Plus DR finally up
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2020, 07:43:22 am »

Thank you, Mark!

It was indeed your remark about "few to no issues" when profiling that got me a bit worried.

I do get what you say about a steep learning curve. I for sure experienced that myself when I fully dived into getting to understand and working with a closed loop color management system years ago. And still I have to really concentrate when choosing the right settings to avoid user errors.

To me the Z9+ is a highly attractive printer. And that is mainly because of your and Mark McCormick's insightful and very useful contributions. So thank you so much.

cheers,
Remko
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