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Author Topic: Manual focus lenses for Phase One IQ3 100 on XF  (Read 598 times)

theHUN

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Manual focus lenses for Phase One IQ3 100 on XF
« on: May 10, 2020, 12:37:28 am »

Hi all,

I'm a long-time lurker and first time poster. I am currently a hobby shooter with an A7R3, and I have occasionally bumped into situations where I longed for better transitions between colors, and it's sufficient for me to at least _consider_ a digital medium format camera, though even if I go down this road, I could only afford a second-hand unit from a private seller in the near future. An IQ3 100 with an XF body is within the budget, so let's consider those for the moment.

Since my typical work-flow uses manual focus lenses, it's something I would like to keep using in the new system. Do the Phase One blue ring autofocus lenses have a pleasant manual focus experience? On the Sony system, all autofocus lenses can be used in manual focus, but often it's a poor focus-by-wire system, and in some lenses it's an awful non-linear translation between the focus ring and the motor. I am much happier with the Voigtlander, Leica-R, vintage Zeiss, and the one Hasselblad V lens I own (250 mm CF SA). Are Phase One lenses in the latter category, with a direct manual focus?

Also, suppose I wanted to use some older glass, what are my options? As much as I love the Hasselblad V lens, I worry that the bokeh pentagons will get annoying after a while. Is there another line of medium format lenses that have a similar image/build quality as the Hasselblad V series but with either more aperture blades or at least a rounded aperture?

Finally, I remember reading somewhere that the XF body does not meter correctly when lenses without electronic contacts are used. Was this ever fixed with a software update? If not, let's assume I know from a test shot that it was underexposed by x-stops, can I just set the body to +x for that particular lens and then never have to worry about it again?

I realize that a lot of these questions could be answered by visiting a dealer in person, but I would hate to take up their time, only to then buy a body+back from a private seller.

Feel free to be blunt in your answers.

Cheers and thanks.
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Manual focus lenses for Phase One IQ3 100 on XF
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2020, 10:54:11 am »

Since my typical work-flow uses manual focus lenses, it's something I would like to keep using in the new system. Do the Phase One blue ring autofocus lenses have a pleasant manual focus experience? On the Sony system, all autofocus lenses can be used in manual focus, but often it's a poor focus-by-wire system, and in some lenses it's an awful non-linear translation between the focus ring and the motor. I am much happier with the Voigtlander, Leica-R, vintage Zeiss, and the one Hasselblad V lens I own (250 mm CF SA). Are Phase One lenses in the latter category, with a direct manual focus?

Every lens on the XF is a directly-coupled focusing lens; there are no fly-by wire lenses. Other considerations on manual focus:
- The XF BR lenses have laser-etched metal grips on the focus ring which are nicer IMO than rubber, except in cold weather where rubber is better if you are glove free. This also tends to last much longer than rubber for lenses, which was the main reason P1 did it; when they started warrantying new kits for five years they didn't want to be on the hook for replacing rubber on 4.9 year old lenses (it's a cheap repair, but round trip shipping plus a disappointed customer is pretty expensive).
- The XF will have a bigger and brighter viewfinder than a small-format SLR, but does not have an EVF. This is both a pro and a con, depending on how much you like composing/focusing with a computer screen vs direct optical viewing. On the IQ3 you can manually focus in live view, but the experience is not as fluid/fast as on the IQ4 or on current Sonys; that may or may not be a problem depending on what you are focusing on and whether the camera or subject are moving.
- The IQ3 does not have focus peaking in live view (the IQ4 does, most modern other cameras do)
- Manually focusing 100mp is inherently more challenging than manually focusing 42 (this statement assumes you're judging at 100% pixel view later on; if you are instead judging by the same print size then it's not more challenging until you get to large print sizes).

So does this mean you'll have a good manual focusing experience? I have no idea, and anyone who tells you they do is wrong. I've put an XF in literally thousands of peoples hands since it launched and the variety of person-to-person variation in experience is huge. I have clients who exclusively manual focus and love it, and I have clients who desperately wanted to use a specific manual focus lens on the XF and could never make it work for them. Your eyes, what you shoot, how you shoot, your standards for what "in focus" is (sounds absolute; it really is not), and any number of other factors come in to play. It's one (of many) reasons it's really beneficial to try before you buy; more on this later.

Also, suppose I wanted to use some older glass, what are my options? As much as I love the Hasselblad V lens, I worry that the bokeh pentagons will get annoying after a while. Is there another line of medium format lenses that have a similar image/build quality as the Hasselblad V series but with either more aperture blades or at least a rounded aperture?

It's a big broad question since there are a lot of older lenses :).

Hassy 200, Hassy 500, Pentacon, Pentax 67, Mamiya 645 TL, Mamiya AF, and various esoteric lenses can be used on the XF and even more can be used on the XT (which is IQ4 only) or other tech/view cameras. You haven't said much about what/how you shoot so it's hard to know which of them will be practical options and which would not be.

Finally, I remember reading somewhere that the XF body does not meter correctly when lenses without electronic contacts are used. Was this ever fixed with a software update? If not, let's assume I know from a test shot that it was underexposed by x-stops, can I just set the body to +x for that particular lens and then never have to worry about it again?


You're limited to spot metering and it will be off by a reasonably consistent amount that can be generally-well-corrected by +x on the body. The XF's "OneShot AE" option on a dedicated custom button works really well in such situations (see my Big Buttery Bokeh article linked above for my experience on which these statements are made). Also keep in mind that your exposure flexibility with an IQ3 is really quite tremendous, so being off by a stop, or even two, is generally irrelevant even if your standards for quality are very high (it goes without saying that it's always, technically, better to correctly expose).

I realize that a lot of these questions could be answered by visiting a dealer in person, but I would hate to take up their time, only to then buy a body+back from a private seller.

That's good spirited of you, but there's no need to think that way. Give a dealer a chance to make their case, and if they make it, buy from them, and if they don't they can't complain that you didn't give them the chance. That's how we (DT) would view it anyway. We can't always match the exact price of the lowest-anywhere-private-sale (though sometimes we can; depends on the details), but...
- The difference in price (if there is one) is often less than you'd think
- If there is a difference in price, it's often offset by:
--- new accessories rather than worn/missing accessories
--- guaranteed condition
--- warranty
--- the value of support, training, and good advice
--- the ability to try before you buy, in real-world situations, for an extended period

Trying before you buy is a huge factor in my biased opinion. We do that with a big proportion of our sales, specifically because at the end of the day the specs of a camera are necessary but insufficient to a good experience, and we want you to have a good experience so you refer us to others (nothing makes for a better advertisement than a happy customer carrying your high-end camera around).

Bottom line is that price is a very important factor in value, but it's far from the only one. If you buy a kit at a "great price" and it turns out not to fit your needs then it was, in fact, a terrible deal for you. If you buy a kit and there is something wrong with it and you spend thousands of dollars or dozens of hours troubleshooting or have it fail on you at the wrong moment, it was a terrible deal.

So anyway, if you'd like expert advice and the chance to work with a camera before you commit to it, I'd really suggest working with a dealer and giving them a chance to earn your business. If you're in the USA we (DT) are glad to be that dealer; we have 20 full-time employees working from home so we can continue to provide the same concierge-level support we are known for, and we have the continued ability to ship new and used backs, bodies, lenses and accessories. It's our full-time job is helping people like you with questions like yours, and if you ask around: we do that job quite well.

Feel free to be blunt in your answers.

Always!
« Last Edit: May 10, 2020, 10:58:13 am by Doug Peterson »
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theHUN

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Re: Manual focus lenses for Phase One IQ3 100 on XF
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2020, 12:05:42 pm »

Thanks Doug, I was hoping you would chime in.

I mostly do landscape photography with static subjects, and I'll happily lug around a tripod with me. The initial motivation was to save a little by using less expensive lenses (I am willing to trade off some sharpness for character), but if it causes more issues than it solves, it would not be worth it. Thinking about it more, I now think that using older lenses would make most sense if I already had those lenses (which I don't, except for the 250 mm), so I should just save for a little longer until I can afford two lenses - one wide and one standard.

You covered a couple of nuggets I had not considered, so I'll swing by a dealer and play with one of these to see if it really suits me.

Thanks.
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