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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 209025 times)

BobShaw

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5880 on: June 26, 2020, 09:28:02 pm »

How does testing get rid of it?
Easy, you give them 14 days mandatory at home and check every day that they are there.
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5881 on: June 26, 2020, 09:30:34 pm »

Easy, you give them 14 days mandatory at home and check every day that they are there.
I wasn't clear on my question.  Testing checks very few people at large.  Maybe 1 in 10 or 1 in 100 depending on locality.  So how does that stop the virus? Sure if you catch the 1 in 10.  But what about the other 9 or 99?

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BobShaw

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5883 on: June 27, 2020, 12:33:57 am »

I wasn't clear on my question.  Testing checks very few people at large.  Maybe 1 in 10 or 1 in 100 depending on locality.  So how does that stop the virus? Sure if you catch the 1 in 10.  But what about the other 9 or 99?
Initially they were only tested people with symptoms. Now that that we are down to a few cases anyone can get tested and they have drive in testing.
Most of our problems now are returning Australians from overseas and they are all tested and do 14 days mandatory stay in a hotel.
There have only been a couple of cases of local transmission.
We still have social distancing but it is becoming more lax. All shops must have sanitiser at the door and some places are doing temp checks.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5884 on: June 27, 2020, 08:31:02 am »

The only mass gathering I would support:

James Clark

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5885 on: June 27, 2020, 09:07:54 am »

The only mass gathering I would support:

Justice Kavanaugh was protesting??  Who knew. ;)
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5886 on: June 27, 2020, 09:14:06 am »

Initially they were only tested people with symptoms. Now that that we are down to a few cases anyone can get tested and they have drive in testing.
Most of our problems now are returning Australians from overseas and they are all tested and do 14 days mandatory stay in a hotel.
There have only been a couple of cases of local transmission.
We still have social distancing but it is becoming more lax. All shops must have sanitiser at the door and some places are doing temp checks.
Bob,   Australia did 2.3 million tests.  Some people were tested more than once. .3% were positive. Australia's population is 26 million.  So that's less than 1 person in 10 who has been tested.  Other than stopping infected visitors entering the country, how does testing help when over 90% of the people have not been tested?  Everyone keeps talking about how testing is so important.  I'm trying to understand how it helps. 
https://www.health.gov.au/resources/total-covid-19-tests-conducted-and-results

hogloff

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5887 on: June 27, 2020, 09:54:02 am »

Bob,   Australia did 2.3 million tests.  Some people were tested more than once. .3% were positive. Australia's population is 26 million.  So that's less than 1 person in 10 who has been tested.  Other than stopping infected visitors entering the country, how does testing help when over 90% of the people have not been tested?  Everyone keeps talking about how testing is so important.  I'm trying to understand how it helps. 
https://www.health.gov.au/resources/total-covid-19-tests-conducted-and-results
Google how South Korea handled their outbreak with extensive testing, contact tracing and isolation.
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5888 on: June 27, 2020, 10:07:33 am »

Google how South Korea handled their outbreak with extensive testing, contact tracing and isolation.
South Koreans are homogenous.  The people are all the same.  Asians in particular believe in respect for authority unlike in America where everyone is very independent, know-it-all.  Koreans cooperate with the rules.  In America, groups think differently.  There are different races.  People come from nations around the world and have different ways of thinking and responding.   

In any case, I asked Bob how Australia changed because of testing.  After all, I think they are more like Americans than Koreans. So if their testing was helpful, the procedures might be better applied to the USA than Korea's. 

hogloff

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5889 on: June 27, 2020, 10:11:36 am »

South Koreans are homogenous.  The people are all the same.  Asians in particular believe in respect for authority unlike in America where everyone is very independent, know-it-all.  Koreans cooperate with the rules.  In America, groups think differently.  There are different races.  People come from nations around the world and have different ways of thinking and responding.   

In any case, I asked Bob how Australia changed because of testing.  After all, I think they are more like Americans than Koreans. So if their testing was helpful, the procedures might be better applied to the USA than Korea's.

I gave you an answer...but if Americans are too self centred to care about who they might infect and possibly kill...then you get what you have on your hands today. Doesn't help when your commander in Chief also does not lead...but instead totally goes against all proven methods.
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5890 on: June 27, 2020, 10:14:29 am »

I gave you an answer...but if Americans are too self centred to care about who they might infect and possibly kill...then you get what you have on your hands today. Doesn't help when your commander in Chief also does not lead...but instead totally goes against all proven methods.
I appreciate your answer.  But I asked Bob how it works in Australia. 

TechTalk

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5891 on: June 27, 2020, 01:58:34 pm »

South Koreans are homogenous.  The people are all the same.  Asians in particular believe in respect for authority unlike in America where everyone is very independent, know-it-all.  Koreans cooperate with the rules.  In America, groups think differently.  There are different races.  People come from nations around the world and have different ways of thinking and responding.   

In any case, I asked Bob how Australia changed because of testing.  After all, I think they are more like Americans than Koreans. So if their testing was helpful, the procedures might be better applied to the USA than Korea's. 

You exhibit an interesting way of looking at the world with your post. I promise that I won't change anything that you wrote. I'll present everything that you said completely and in the same order. I just want to break it down in order to get a better understanding of your thinking.

South Koreans are homogenous.  The people are all the same.

I see. Please expand on that a bit.

Asians in particular believe in respect for authority

Ok. South Korea is in Asia and Asians believe in respect for authority. I think that I understand your view of Asians now. Please continue.

unlike in America where everyone is very independent,

Got it so far. South Koreans are homogenous. The people are all the same. Asians believe in respect for authority and are unlike Americans because Americans are very independent.

know-it-all.

I've met people like that. They weren't all Americans, but go on.

Koreans cooperate with the rules.

Koreans are Asian and Asians believe in respect for authority. I've got that already. And by contrast?

In America, groups think differently.

OK. Americans are very independent, but their thinking is divided into groups. Why is that?

There are different races.

I think I'm beginning to understand.

People come from nations around the world and have different ways of thinking and responding.

I've had the pleasure to travel to nations around the world and found the people I met in each country were quite individual in their thoughts and responses. But that's just my experience. Let's go to the point that you're making now.

In any case, I asked Bob how Australia changed because of testing.

That seems like a good idea. People in one country can always learn from the experience of people in other countries.

After all, I think they are more like Americans than Koreans.

From what you've said, I guess you see Australians as more like independent Americans and less like homogenous Koreans who are all the same.

So if their testing was helpful, the procedures might be better applied to the USA than Korea's.

By breaking it down, I now think I have a better understanding of how you arrived at that point of view.

* Final comment... To paint an accurate picture, it's generally better to use a small brush rather than a broad one.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2020, 04:20:28 pm by TechTalk »
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BobShaw

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5892 on: June 27, 2020, 08:53:46 pm »

South Koreans are homogenous.  The people are all the same.  Asians in particular believe in respect for authority unlike in America where everyone is very independent, know-it-all.  Koreans cooperate with the rules.  In America, groups think differently.  There are different races.  People come from nations around the world and have different ways of thinking and responding.   

In any case, I asked Bob how Australia changed because of testing.  After all, I think they are more like Americans than Koreans. So if their testing was helpful, the procedures might be better applied to the USA than Korea's.
I think most countries generally believe in respect for authority provided that the authority deserves respect.
Here in Australia from day 1 the Prime Minister was taking advise from the Chief Medical Officer and each state Premier was meeting by video with the Federal government on the plan. It is only recently when the Federal Government is trying to get the country going again that some states have gone on slightly different paths.

A helpful thing is that each state has only 1 police force to get on board. There are no city based police forces, sheriffs, marshals etc that do on the street policing.
The Federal government has made the military available as unarmed assistants if needed.

Overall though the virus is basically under control.

Bulk testing finds the asymptomatic cases, the ones where there are no actual symptoms. These are the potential spreaders. If you find those and then do contact tracing you can stop the people they have passed it on to from spreading it further. I think that is the focus at the moment.

I am not sure that Australians are really like Americans. They are  much more like Canadians and New Zealanders. Fairly relaxed and fun loving. Despite being fairly isolated geographically, most Australians would have visited a dozen countries by the time they are 30. We have a reciprocal agreement for work visas for a year or more for under age 31 and many will work overseas in Canada or the UK (mainly because of language) or other places. If you go to the ski fields of Canada half seem to be Australians. The Canadians are over here picking fruit normally.

Most Australians have never read the Constitution or ever will. It is a tiny document anyway as there are no laws in it. Laws are made by the state or federal governments and can be changed fairly easily as long as you can get a majority in both houses of parliament. With Covid it helps that the opposition is basically on board. With Covid new rules are announced each day under the Health Acts.

Our only problem in recent times has been protests eroding the message. If people see 10,000 people gathering for a protest it is hard to tell them that it is not OK to have 10 family in your house for a birthday party.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 09:38:48 pm by BobShaw »
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TechTalk

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5893 on: June 27, 2020, 11:28:01 pm »

Despite being fairly isolated geographically, most Australians would have visited a dozen countries by the time they are 30. We have a reciprocal agreement for work visas for a year or more for under age 31 and many will work overseas in Canada or the UK (mainly because of language) or other places. If you go to the sky fields of Canada half seem to be Australians. The Canadians are over here picking fruit normally.

The reciprocal work visa program sounds like a great idea to me Bob. Not at the moment of course, but working with folks in another country for an extended period of time, sounds like a great way to really get to know other people and places.

On the occasions that I've traveled overseas for work, it's only been for a handful of days at a time. It was always rewarding though; as I at least had time to get acquainted with various people in more depth than I ever have as a tourist. Spending time in peoples homes, meeting their families, and talking over a meal has been the most enjoyable travel for me. I'd rather have a simple meal in someones home when traveling than dine in the fanciest of restaurants.

I've found that I didn't need to get very far beneath the surface differences to find the same variety of personalities in any country I've visited. There are happy, grumpy, shy, outgoing, etc. folks everywhere you go! One of the best political discussions that I ever had was with a bunch of strangers in the dining car of a train in Germany. A lot of disagreement, but no one took it personally, and we all enjoyed getting aquatinted over a few evening beers. There were a quite a few laughs too, likely aided by the beer.

Wishing you the best in your home and country Bob.
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5894 on: June 28, 2020, 08:05:47 pm »

It looks like Lindsay Graham, a strong proponent of Trump, is off his meds and ranting incoherently on the morning show Fox and Friends (of Trump).

https://www.salon.com/2020/06/26/lindsey-graham-declares-war-on-confederate-statue-protesters-as-he-sinks-in-the-polls/

After winning by 15 points in 2014, he's neck and neck with his Democrat challenger this year.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5895 on: June 28, 2020, 11:18:07 pm »


On the occasions that I've traveled overseas for work...I've found that I didn't need to get very far beneath the surface differences to find the same variety of personalities in any country I've visited. There are happy, grumpy, shy, outgoing, etc. folks everywhere you go!

I've traveled and worked in over fifty countries and my experience is the same.  People are pretty much the same wherever you go.  And overall, they tend towards the good, not the bad.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5896 on: June 30, 2020, 07:59:06 am »

Regarding the differences between Canadian and US healthcare, which has come up here a few times, here's an article about an interview with a US health care executive about his role in the low-key propaganda campaign (aka "fake news"), https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-monday-edition-1.5631285/this-former-u-s-health-insurance-exec-says-he-lied-to-americans-about-canadian-health-care-1.5631874.
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5897 on: June 30, 2020, 08:38:24 am »

Regarding the differences between Canadian and US healthcare, which has come up here a few times, here's an article about an interview with a US health care executive about his role in the low-key propaganda campaign (aka "fake news"), https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-monday-edition-1.5631285/this-former-u-s-health-insurance-exec-says-he-lied-to-americans-about-canadian-health-care-1.5631874.
The biggest liar about Obamacare is Obama himself.  He promised and knew he lied when he assured Americans before it was approved that they wouldn't lose their doctors and it would lower the cost of medical care.  Both were false. 

As far as health care, I'd trust our own Les more than the liar you quoted.  Les reported that a hip operation in Canada now takes 14-16 months to get it scheduled in Ontario. Before the Covid problem it took 6 months.  In the US before Covid, it would take less than half Canada's at the most.  Canadians come to America by the thousands for medical care due to the huge wait times there. 
https://fee.org/articles/america-outperforms-canada-in-surgery-wait-times-and-its-not-even-close/

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5898 on: June 30, 2020, 08:45:25 am »

Why anyone would trust the government for their medical care is nuts.  Regarding Covid, they lied about masks in the beginning sentencing many people to death who could have avoided infection if the wore masks that the CDC said wouldn't protect them.  The NY governor sentenced old people to death by forcing them to return to their old age homes.  They brought their COvid virus home to infect and kill their friends.  Then the state government blamed the federal government for doing it.  The only thing a bureaucrat is interested in is his salary and pension, not you and your family.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5899 on: June 30, 2020, 09:06:02 am »

The biggest liar about Obamacare is Obama himself.  He promised and knew he lied when he assured Americans before it was approved that they wouldn't lose their doctors and it would lower the cost of medical care.  Both were false. 

As far as health care, I'd trust our own Les more than the liar you quoted.  Les reported that a hip operation in Canada now takes 14-16 months to get it scheduled in Ontario. Before the Covid problem it took 6 months.  In the US before Covid, it would take less than half Canada's at the most.  Canadians come to America by the thousands for medical care due to the huge wait times there. 
https://fee.org/articles/america-outperforms-canada-in-surgery-wait-times-and-its-not-even-close/

You choose never to believe anyone who doesn't tell you what you want to hear.

I see you managed to make another anti-Obama rant in response to something that had nothing to do with Obama. Why do you do this?
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