PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[Alan Klein]

One of the biggest tragedies in modern history was that Moa Zedong won the civil war.  And a second biggest is that we put up with the One China policy as it pertains to Taiwan. 

China probably would have been #1 years ago.  Imagine Taiwan applied to China mainland since 1947.  The question is whether there would have been an adversarial situation anyways?  AFter all, the main reason the Nationalists made friends with the west was to protect themselves from the mainland Communists.  If I was Taiwanese, I would be looking at Hong Kong with a lot of apprehension. 

[JoeKitchen]

Keep editing, maybe you'll get it right, although the history is not in your favor.

Oh but it is. 

Like I said, 0.07% infection fatality rate for those under 50.  (Below are case fatality rates by age updated yesterday morning.) 

It is you who charged the windmills, not me.  I, and Slobo, are the ones who kept on saying this is nothing but a cold for all but the most vulnerable.  The data largely proves us right. 

[chez]

I'll admit that the converse thing was just me playing with you, which is so easy btw.  It's like I dont even need to try. 

But anyway, on C-19 predictions, everything you said did not happen. 

You said the healthcare system would get hit hard with this, yet you were still able to stay on vacation and are obviously not working overtime since you're posting here.  News stories show this is actually having a negative effect on the industry with massive layoffs.  You, and others, insisted opening would lead to an uptick in deaths, just wait two weeks.  We did, and then waited two more, and two more, and two more and still nada.  It is supposedly a serious disease, but about a 1/3 of people get no symptoms whereas the majority of those who do get only very mild symptoms. 

You have no credibility left when it comes to making predictions on C-19.  On treating it, yes, but talking about what will happen or what mitigates the deaths, nothing left. 

I am not longer giving into yours, or anyone else's, doom and gloom.

Well one prediction of 60,000 deaths sure didn't happen. Seems like we flew right by that one. I know when that figure was announced...many here scoffed at Covid not being any worse than the yearly flu. Now we will pass 100,000 and onward with possibilities of spikes in certain areas and pissibly a fall resurgence.

[JoeKitchen]

Well one prediction of 60,000 deaths sure didn't happen. Seems like we flew right by that one. I know when that figure was announced...many here scoffed at Covid not being any worse than the yearly flu. Now we will pass 100,000 and onward with possibilities of spikes in certain areas and pissibly a fall resurgence.

Over 60K, but still no where near 2.5M. 

And if we moved to protect the nursing homes, especially in many blue states like NY, NJ, PA, we would be around 30K to 40K. 

But instead, Cuomo's administration insisted those who test  positive be move back to the nursing home and got many others to follow suit. 

Thank God DeSantis realized how much a bad idea it was and saved FL.  Too bad it took the Dumbocrats so long to realize it. 

While DeSantis saved seniors in FL, Murphy in NJ let 1 in 13 nursing home residents die. 

[LesPalenik]

I have several masks made by a friend. I don't wear them now when going to the store at 7am, since there are only a few people in the entire store at that time and there is no point wearing one on the empty streets or in the park.

However, i'm looking forward to wearing a mask made from a heavy cotton cloth next winter on my daily walks outside, since my lungs don't like the cold air.
If you have asthma or COPD, on cold winter days, it's a good idea to wear a mask or even a scarf to help shield your lungs from the cold.

[armand]

Oh but it is. 

Like I said, 0.07% fatality rate for those under 50. 

It is you who charged the windmills, not me.  I, and Slobo, are the ones who kept on saying this is nothing but a cold for all but the most vulnerable.  The data largely proves us right.

Strike and miss. Again.

I'l explain again the point of windmills: you are imagining wars and contradictions where there are none just so you can say that you were right.


And that data doesn't prove it's just a cold. The mortality per age groups was never in contention anyway, see the above point with the windmills.
I'll explain again: what it matters the most is the caseload per unit of time, and less the overall mortality, on which not only it's much worse than a cold, it's also much worse than flu. Probably with time (eg. years), if it becomes endemic, it will behave like one but we are nowhere close to that. And this is with a lot of restrictions. Without, things would have been much worse. But all these were already said by me and others many times already and it was like water on a duck's back. Maybe you could explain to the other countries how a cold killed so many. On a second thought, don't.
Honestly, this is a monumental waste of my time.

[Paulo Bizarro]

Well, thanks for that caveat, finally. 

So instead, lets look at the facts.  The vast majority of those succumbing to this are over 60 with pre-existing conditions. 

99.93% of those under 50 are surviving it. 

Therefore, it is time to open and go the extra mile to protect the old.  Pretty simple.

I have seen many testimonials from the worldover of people who have recovered from this. They talk about feeling like they were hit by a truck; even younger than 50 or 40. Or 30 or 20... many who have recovered will have permanent lung damage, at least.

Far from being "like a flu", but of course you are free to believe whom you like to believe.

[JoeKitchen]

Strike and miss. Again.

I'l explain again the point of windmills: you are imagining wars and contradictions where there are none just so you can say that you were right.


And that data doesn't prove it's just a cold. The mortality per age groups was never in contention anyway, see the above point with the windmills.
I'll explain again: what it matters the most is the caseload per unit of time, and less the overall mortality, on which not only it's much worse than a cold, it's also much worse than flu. Probably with time (eg. years), if it becomes endemic, it will behave like one but we are nowhere close to that. And this is with a lot of restrictions. Without, things would have been much worse. But all these were already said by me and others many times already and it was like water on a duck's back. Maybe you could explain to the other countries how a cold killed so many. On a second thought, don't.
Honestly, this is a monumental waste of my time.

Armand, you are wrong again.  You are the one fighting this windmill thinking it is giant.  The whole handling of this was wrong, and continues to be wrong. 

First, I and Slobo had posted several articles to back up our claims.  You on the other hand insisted you are an expert but you have never provided us with your credentials.  I dont even know what type of medical professional you are, MD, nurse, something else?  You also have not provided us with any data to back up any of your claims. 

Second, all of you predictions have been false.  The medical system has not been overwhelmed and deaths have not spiked in places opening up.  You hid behind words like "if" or "could" claiming that it could happen, but none the less we need to stay locked down.  It is the same thing as saying it will happen, so we need to stay locked down.  You're taking us to the same place regardless. 

Third, you cant prove this would have been worse without restrictions, especially with places that did not close not getting hit real bad, such as FL.  FL nailed the response without a full lock down whereas NY botched it with one. 

Last, the data is on my side.  This is just a cold to those under 50.  Over 60, it is more then that.  70% of the deaths occur in nursing homes,  so really, under 50 just a cold.

[Alan Klein]

Oh but it is. 

Like I said, 0.07% infection fatality rate for those under 50.  (Below are case fatality rates by age updated yesterday morning.) 

It is you who charged the windmills, not me.  I, and Slobo, are the ones who kept on saying this is nothing but a cold for all but the most vulnerable.  The data largely proves us right. 

For someone like me who's 75, that's not a happy chart.   

[Alan Klein]

I have several masks made by a friend. I don't wear them now when going to the store at 7am, since there are only a few people in the entire store at that time and there is no point wearing one on the empty streets or in the park.

However, i'm looking forward to wearing a mask made from a heavy cotton cloth next winter on my daily walks outside, since my lungs don't like the cold air.
If you have asthma or COPD, on cold winter days, it's a good idea to wear a mask or even a scarf to help shield your lungs from the cold.

I shield my lungs by staying indoors. 

[JoeKitchen]

For someone like me who's 75, that's not a happy chart.   

It is not, which is why I have been saying at the same time that we need to open that we also need to protect the elderly. 

However, clearly this lock down is not doing that.  70% of deaths in nursing homes. 

Yeah we've done a piss poor job protecting the elderly.

[faberryman]

70% of deaths in nursing homes.

Although that may be true in a few states, I think the national average is much lower.

[armand]

Armand, you are wrong again.  You are the one fighting this windmill thinking it is giant.  The whole handling of this was wrong, and continues to be wrong. 

First, I and Slobo had posted several articles to back up our claims.  You on the other hand insisted you are an expert but you have never provided us with your credentials.  I dont even know what type of medical professional you are, MD, nurse, something else?  You also have not provided us with any data to back up any of your claims. 

Second, all of you predictions have been false.  The medical system has not been overwhelmed and deaths have not spiked in places opening up.  You hid behind words like "if" or "could" claiming that it could happen, but none the less we need to stay locked down.  It is the same thing as saying it will happen, so we need to stay locked down.  You're taking us to the same place regardless. 

Third, you cant prove this would have been worse without restrictions, especially with places that did not close not getting hit real bad, such as FL.  FL nailed the response without a full lock down whereas NY botched it with one. 

Last, the data is on my side.  This is just a cold to those under 50.  Over 60, it is more then that.  70% of the deaths occur in nursing homes,  so really, under 50 just a cold.

I said many times and posted what I had to, you just post too much that you lose track on who's who. I'm not here to educate you and keep reposting myself just so it can sink in. I'm a critical care physician (which I said several times before but then again, you forget what's being said the moment you turn the page) and it took me many years to get here that your few hours of google will not compensate, not that this will stop you claiming you know better even critical care medicine concepts.
Again, if you cannot recall what was said few pages ago even, why would I even bother? Because I won't. I gave you all the chances but you keep going around the bush, coming with some black and white arguments, then you imagine things where they aren't just to say that you are right. This doesn't even reach high school level of debate. There is evidence and there is evidence; there is enough paranoia out there that you can find articles to claim anything you want. I caught you multiple times using arguments and concepts that you don't fully grasp but yet you keep arguing. Things are much more complex than you want them to be, I don't have a black and white opinion and I adjust based on good evidence, or educated approach when the evidence is not yet available, not on what I want to believe.
I can't believe I'm letting myself dragged in this discussion, which isn't really a discussion, it has never been. Not too mention you keep claiming I said that and that and when I say prove it, crickets.

It's amazing you keep arguing against so many people who actually do this for a living and yet you don't see a problem with that. There is no doubt crossing your mind that maybe, just maybe you don't have all the data and things are not as simple as you think they are. You have less doubts than they have.
You keep claiming you are the second Messiah (or half, the other is Slobodan). You are in complete delusion that you are right and nothing will change that.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Far from being "like a flu"...

For me, it was way easier than the flu. It was just one symptom, dry cough. With the flu, it was everything: headache, joints, muscle pain, sneezing, coughing, high fever.

[armand]

For me, it was way easier than the flu. It was just one symptom, dry cough. With the flu, it was everything: headache, joints, muscle pain, sneezing, coughing, high fever.

Good for you and many others. There are also plenty that wished they could say the same.

[Alan Klein]

It is not, which is why I have been saying at the same time that we need to open that we also need to protect the elderly. 

However, clearly this lock down is not doing that.  70% of deaths in nursing homes. 

Yeah we've done a piss poor job protecting the elderly.

Fortunately they cleaned up their act at my wife's mother's assisted living place here in New Jersey.  Plenty of PPE, isolation, etc.  They just tested her; she's negative.  You really have to take care of yourself if you're able.  My wife and I are staying home mainly.  But I'm getting itchy; cabin fever.  I've been watching these YouTube videos of people in the woods camping out eating steaks cooked on a wood burning fireplace.  Escapism.  I was thinking about renting a home up in the Catskills for a week where you can hide out yet be away fishing, canoeing etc.  Fresh air and no people. Photography.  But she doesn't want to go.  If the numbers go down, I could see myself starting to eat out, taking more risks.  Maye the Jersey shore.  It's only 20 miles from home.  The boardwalk there or amusement park, if they open. You start feeling impervious.  A couple of shots of Lysol, and you're all set.

[Alan Klein]

Although that may be true in a few states, I think the national average is much lower.

It was 75% in my town in New Jersey.  But we have a large 55+ population here. We're thinning out it seems. More home resales on the market.   

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Lockdowns failed to alter the course of pandemic

infection rates had fallen since lockdowns were eased

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8347635/Lockdowns-failed-alter-course-pandemic-JP-Morgan-study-claims.html?fbclid=IwAR3zFbp3Mk3pVsRg5t4dxDIxoq7zy4_get9CiEt45BPUtiYYU3Vw-GM_plw

[Craig Lamson]

Dem potential VP candidate has to admit...

Klobuchar trolls Trump on taking drug that husband used to treat coronavirus

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/klobuchar-trolls-trump-on-taking-drug-that-husband-used-to-treat-coronavirus

That's going to leave a mark on poor Amy...hehe. Maybe say bye bye VP!

[Alan Klein]

Lockdowns failed to alter the course of pandemic

infection rates had fallen since lockdowns were eased

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8347635/Lockdowns-failed-alter-course-pandemic-JP-Morgan-study-claims.html?fbclid=IwAR3zFbp3Mk3pVsRg5t4dxDIxoq7zy4_get9CiEt45BPUtiYYU3Vw-GM_plw

Seasonal change.  Warming up. That's what Trump said months ago.