PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[Alan Klein]

Meanwhile, I am now scheduling a multi-day shoot of a 1,000,000 sqf facility in NYC proper for next month. 

Have fun staying inside. 

Good luck and make a lot of money.

[armand]

I'll admit that the converse thing was just me playing with you, which is so easy btw.  It's like I dont even need to try. 

But anyway, on C-19 predictions, everything you said did not happen. 

You said the healthcare system would get hit hard with this, yet you were still able to stay on vacation and are obviously not working overtime since you're posting here.  News stories show this is actually having a negative effect on the industry with massive layoffs.  You, and others, insisted opening would lead to an uptick in deaths, just wait two weeks.  We did, and then waited two more, and two more, and two more and still nada. 

You have no credibility left when it comes to making predictions on C-19.  On treating it, yes, but talking about what will happen or what mitigates the spread, nothing left.

Right, so pants on fire.

I said prove it with my posts. You are combining everything that was said into one big persona and you really don't know who said what.
I am against indiscriminate opening, that's the only statement.

And regarding my personal experience, once again, it shouldn't be that hard: my sample is of one and means nothing, so that fact that I was busy or not means nothing to how things are on average. As for the medical system to be hit hard, it was in some places and this is a long run, it's far from being over.

One more thing, technically the healthcare system has been hit hard, recall the gleeful post from Slobodan with 1.4 million healthcare workers being laid off. Who knows, maybe I'm being laid off and that's why I have this extra time, or maybe I still have a job and am getting a raise; both scenarios irrelevant. 

[JoeKitchen]

Right, so pants on fire.

I said prove it with my posts. You are combining everything that was said into one big persona and you really don't know who said what.
I am against indiscriminate opening, that's the only statement.

And regarding my personal experience, once again, it shouldn't be that hard: my sample is of one and means nothing, so that fact that I was busy or not means nothing to how things are on average. As for the medical system to be hit hard, it was in some places and this is a long run, it's far from being over.

One more thing, technically the healthcare system has been hit hard, recall the gleeful post from Slobodan with 1.4 million healthcare workers being laid off. Who knows, maybe I'm being laid off and that's why I have this extra time, or maybe I still have a job and am getting a raise; both scenarios irrelevant.

Well, thanks for that caveat, finally. 

So instead, lets look at the facts.  The vast majority of those succumbing to this are over 60 with pre-existing conditions. 

99.93% of those under 50 are surviving it. 

Therefore, it is time to open and go the extra mile to protect the old.  Pretty simple. 

[faberryman]

Welp, there you go.  Proof no one is telling us to use certified masks and that it is okay to make your own.

"CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies) especially in areas of significant community-based transmission."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover.html

[Alan Klein]

The Chinese communists are up to it again.  Who says these people aren't dangerous?

Hong Kong lawmaker mourns 'end of homeland' as China mulls anti-protest law
"This is the end of Hong Kong and it’s like the end of our homeland," said Tanya Chan, a legislator in the territory.
[/i]https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hong-kong-lawmaker-mourns-end-homeland-china-mulls-anti-protest-n1212721

[JoeKitchen]

"CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies) especially in areas of significant community-based transmission."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover.html

How does this relate to our discussion on certified masks? 

As has been pointed out, here in the USA we are not being told to wear certified masks, like as is the case in other countries.  We are even encourage to make our own, which cant be certified. 

Your post proved my point, that being in the USA no one is telling use to use certified masks. 

[faberryman]

Your post proved my point, that being in the USA no one is telling use to use certified masks.

Right, the CDC is currently only recommending that you wear cloth masks.

[JoeKitchen]

The Chinese communists are up to it again.  Who says these people aren't dangerous?

Hong Kong lawmaker mourns 'end of homeland' as China mulls anti-protest law
"This is the end of Hong Kong and it’s like the end of our homeland," said Tanya Chan, a legislator in the territory.
[/i]https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hong-kong-lawmaker-mourns-end-homeland-china-mulls-anti-protest-n1212721

One of the biggest tragedies in modern history was that Moa Zedong won the civil war.  And a second biggest is that we put up with the One China policy as it pertains to Taiwan. 

[armand]

Well, thanks for that caveat, finally. 

So instead, lets look at the facts.  The vast majority of those succumbing to this are over 60 with pre-existing conditions. 

99.93% of those under 50 are surviving it. 

Therefore, it is time to open and go the extra mile to protect the old.  Pretty simple.

I don't think you know what finally means. I said the same thing several pages ago. I think you are doing it to give yourself the illusion that you won the argument, recall the windmill fight that I mentioned to you several times so far.

[faberryman]

Your post proved my point, that being in the USA no one is telling use to use certified masks.

I don't recall your making that point. I thought you were bitching and moaning about mask wearing in general. Glad to hear you are on board with wearing a cloth mask as recommended by the CDC.

[JoeKitchen]

I don't think you know what finally means. I said the same thing several pages ago. I think you are doing it to give yourself the illusion that you won the argument, recall the windmill fight that I mentioned to you several times so far.

Windmill fight, like that windmills are drastically more expensive form of energy?  This has already been proven. 

[JoeKitchen]

I don't recall your making that point. I thought you were bitching and moaning about mask wearing in general. Glad to hear you are on board with wearing a cloth mask as recommended by the CDC.

I'm not.  I will wear one only if required.  If not, I wont.  I went for a walk yesterday, on narrow sidewalks, and over half the people I walked by were not wearing masks either. 

Pablo and I were talking about certified vs. just cloth.  I will contest maybe certified masks help, but pieces of cloth I feel are pointless.  Observations during my walk lead me to believe most agree with me. 

I am also not putting up with a weird tan line on my face as we get closer to summer. 

[armand]

Right, the CDC is currently only recommending that you wear cloth masks.

Overall things are simpler than some make them to be.

1. the current recs are not the best possible but the best with what we have and what we know so far
2. surgical type masks would be more effective but there aren't enough so the next best thing is
3. the simple cloth masks, which will decrease some of the droplets spread, how much depends on the mask of course; the data is all over the place on how much they decrease the droplet spread, in terms of percentages

Why I think it's still a good recommendation? Because even if they are not that effective, if enough people will use them (with minimal side effects I would say besides their freedom infringement) those small percentages are additive and will lead to lives saved. How many? We don't have that, just can attempt mathematical models. Does it matter? No, lives saved by going with such a simple task are worth it.


PS. I wrote something similar many pages ago for who was interested

[armand]

Windmill fight, like that windmills are drastically more expensive form of energy?  This has already been proven.

No, you are missing the point. Again.
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Quixote

[JoeKitchen]

No, you are missing the point. Again.
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Quixote

So what you are  saying is, you felt this virus is a giant that needs to be fought by everyone, only to now realize it is nothing for most people.  I hope falling off your horse did not hurt too much and you have the courage to get back on.   

[faberryman]

I'm not.  I will wear one only if required.  If not, I wont.

No one is asking you to do more.

  I went for a walk yesterday, on narrow sidewalks, and over half the people I walked by were not wearing masks either.Pablo and I were talking about certified vs. just cloth.  I will contest maybe certified masks help, but pieces of cloth I feel are pointless.  Observations during my walk lead me to believe most agree with me.

The CDC recommends wearing a mask when you are unable to social distance. So, unless it is really crowded, you don't need to wear a mask when you go for a walk.

I am also not putting up with a weird tan line on my face as we get closer to summer.

Of course not. There is always an exception where vanity trumps disease prevention. The CDC should have been more clear.

[JoeKitchen]

Overall things are simpler than some make them to be.

1. the current recs are not the best possible but the best with what we have and what we know so far
2. surgical type masks would be more effective but there aren't enough so the next best thing is
3. the simple cloth masks, which will decrease some of the droplets spread, how much depends on the mask of course; the data is all over the place on how much they decrease the droplet spread, in terms of percentages

Why I think it's still a good recommendation? Because even if they are not that effective, if enough people will use them (with minimal side effects I would say besides their freedom infringement) those small percentages are additive and will lead to lives saved. How many? We don't have that, just can attempt mathematical models. Does it matter? No, lives saved by going with such a simple task are worth it.


PS. I wrote something similar many pages ago for who was interested

Except for those people who now think, well I have a mask, so I can just cough/sneeze without covering my mouth.  Once again, just pointing out when you give people a false sense of security, things can go awry. 

Crosswalks with lights often have more pedestrians being hit by cars then without since people stop looking at the road. 

[JoeKitchen]

No one is asking you to do more.
 

The CDC recommends wearing a mask when you are unable to social distance. So, unless it is really crowded, you don't need to wear a mask when you go for a walk.

Of course not. There is always an exception where vanity trumps disease prevention. The CDC should have been more clear.

Of course, I do make exceptions.  I am off to continuing pointing the interior of my foundation and will certainly wear not just a mask, but a respirator. 

Breathing in OPC and Lime I consider to be bad for your health, much worse then this virus.

[armand]

So what you are  saying is, you felt this virus is a giant that needs to be fought by everyone, only to now realize it is nothing for most people.  I hope falling off your horse did not hurt too much and you have the courage to get back on.   

Keep editing, maybe you'll get it right, although the history is not in your favor.

[faberryman]

Except for those people who now think, well I have a mask, so I can just cough/sneeze without covering my mouth.  Once again, just pointing out when you give people a false sense of security, things can go awry.

Point taken. Some people are idiots.

Crosswalks with lights often have more pedestrians being hit by cars then without since people stop looking at the road.

Same point.