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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 285996 times)

elliot_n

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2720 on: April 26, 2020, 06:23:46 am »

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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2721 on: April 26, 2020, 07:21:39 am »

Yes, in America, that is likely the case.

Elsewhere, I don't think so.

I highly doubt that.  Everyone everywhere will get this.  It will happen as we re-open.  There just will not be a vaccine in time to prevent it. 

We will all be playing Sweden soon enough. 
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2722 on: April 26, 2020, 07:23:33 am »

Right.  Definitive proof right there that Trumpers' unvarying support for trump, regardless of all evidence to the contrary, relies totally on the fact that they are slow learners.

According to Science, You're a Huge Jerk

Congrats, a new study says you're probably a douchebag.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2723 on: April 26, 2020, 07:26:49 am »

You know, Joe, you could do this -- just go get it, and get it over with, instead of just talking about it. Or, you could refuse to be shut in, and go back to work, but take some precautions -- maybe wear a mask, make sure you wash you hands a lot, and hope to avoid it, but take the risk.

But, not everybody's going to get it. A lot of people, like Alan,  are worried (as I am -- I'm older than Alan) and so we're a bit careful. Given that, I doubt that even half of Americans will get it. It's more contagious than the flu, but people who get the flu take no precautions at all. You'll hear some media person say occasionally that you should wash you hands during flu season, but basically, if you don't want to get the flu, you get a flu shot. Only about half of Americans actually get one. The rest walk around with no protections, no social distancing, no shut-downs. That's roughly 165 million people, half the American population. Yet, the CDC's high estimate of people who got the flu this season is 56 million, or about a third of non-vaccinated people. So, it's quite possible to avoid even a pretty infectious disease, and most people do, which is probably why they don't get flu shots. The Oxford group thinks it will have a vaccine in mass production by September or so. I fully plan to hold out until then, or well past then, which I can do. Once we have a vaccine, we should be good. There's no vaccine for the corona viruses that cause a cold because there wouldn't be much money in it -- vaccines are expensive to make, but not many people die from the common cold, so few people would bother with getting a shot that might make you feel funky for three days, when the cold last four days. Anyway, I doubt that most people in America will get Covid-19; but a lot will.

I would like to John, because that is what is going to happen, or at 60% of us will get it.  You really think that when we re-open this wont start spreading again?  It will, and we wont have a vaccine when that happens because we cant stay locked in that  long. 

I'd rather live life then worry about this.  For you, it may be different, and you cna stay locked inside your house.  As I said, it makes no difference to you if only you or if everyone stays inside, but it makes a hell of a difference to me. 

FYI, my 84 year old aunt is recovering well from this. 
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2724 on: April 26, 2020, 07:37:45 am »

Yep, it is not biased at all. 

CNN 'Larry King' episode featuring Biden accuser's mother disappears from Google Play catalog

Not only did this video disappear from Google's catalog, but all of the videos after it had their episode numbers pulled down by 1 so it looks like an episode is not missing at all.  According to another source, this episode was up a couple of days ago, but now is missing along with all the other episode renumbered. 
« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 07:41:33 am by JoeKitchen »
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2725 on: April 26, 2020, 07:45:54 am »

Well...

We tried with a highly educated, polished, well-spoken guy, with “zero experience in anything related to government or global issues” because of the color of his skin, and it ended up with disastrous results. So we said, what the heck, let’s try something else this time.

What disastrous results?
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2726 on: April 26, 2020, 07:49:31 am »

What disastrous results?

Anemic economic recovery for one. 

Violations to freedom of the press for two.  (Trump my talk a big game, but Obama arrested and spied on reporters, something Trump has not done.) 

Using his political power to punish those on the opposite side of the aisle like with the IRS scandal. 
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Krug

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2727 on: April 26, 2020, 09:20:49 am »

Just Trump or Biden ??

No Alan it is not as simple as that  -  what you get is Trump plus the unqualified and doubtfully honest and competent people he appoints, the encouragement of many aspects of America that contradict and undermine the good intentions and efforts of the Founding Fathers and the unnecessary and counter-productive alienation of the allies and partners that even a state as powerful and influential in the world still needs for it's own safety and prosperity. Or Biden who, if nothing else, could bring in his train a return to the processes of debate and considered political behaviour for which America is famed and in which it has played a large part in educating and guiding the world for over a century, where intelligent Americans and others who have bothered to study problems and produced recommendations based on knowledge and reason shape American and world policy, where allies and partners are encouraged to play important roles in aiding American influence for good in a dangerous and rapidly changing world.

It is not just Donald or Joe - would that it were as simple as that - but it isn't and cannot be - sadly !
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2728 on: April 26, 2020, 09:29:18 am »

What has he successfully protected you from so far?

(Not counting the "illegal immigrants" who mow your lawns, clean your hotel rooms and harvest your vegetables?)

China, CANADA, Mexico, NATO, NK, Russia.  Liberal SUPREME COURT JUDGES and starting to protect us from liberal  Federal Judges for a start.

 
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2729 on: April 26, 2020, 09:31:11 am »

... where intelligent Americans and others who have bothered to study problems and produced recommendations based on knowledge and reason shape American and world policy...

So... why have all those "intelligent Americans," "knowledge" and "reasons" produced the world of ISIS, failed Arab Spring, ruined Libya, BLM, #MeToo, identity politics, the worse racial relations in 50 years, slow economy recovery, etc. etc... and ultimately produced Donald Trump?

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2730 on: April 26, 2020, 09:42:03 am »

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2731 on: April 26, 2020, 09:55:50 am »

Just Trump or Biden ??

No Alan it is not as simple as that  -  what you get is Trump plus the unqualified and doubtfully honest and competent people he appoints, the encouragement of many aspects of America that contradict and undermine the good intentions and efforts of the Founding Fathers and the unnecessary and counter-productive alienation of the allies and partners that even a state as powerful and influential in the world still needs for it's own safety and prosperity. Or Biden who, if nothing else, could bring in his train a return to the processes of debate and considered political behaviour for which America is famed and in which it has played a large part in educating and guiding the world for over a century, where intelligent Americans and others who have bothered to study problems and produced recommendations based on knowledge and reason shape American and world policy, where allies and partners are encouraged to play important roles in aiding American influence for good in a dangerous and rapidly changing world.

It is not just Donald or Joe - would that it were as simple as that - but it isn't and cannot be - sadly !
Americans don't for VP's or cabinets.  They're voting for a leader.  So it's either Donald or Joe. 

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2732 on: April 26, 2020, 10:06:46 am »

Anemic economic recovery for one. 

Violations to freedom of the press for two.  (Trump my talk a big game, but Obama arrested and spied on reporters, something Trump has not done.) 

Using his political power to punish those on the opposite side of the aisle like with the IRS scandal. 
Obama also lied about Obamacare to get it approved telling everyone they could keep their doctors and that it will cost less.  He also withdrew troops in Iraq in 2011 against his military advisors advice to induce people to re-elect him.  That created a vacuum for ISIS and al Baghdadi which Trump had to destroy later when he became president.  Obama pulled the American navy out of the South CHina Seas for three years giving China the opening to create all those military bases on the islands there. Trump is trying to rule them in.  Obama played the race card as Democrats do aggravating racial issues instead of ammeriolating them.  There were assassinations of police officers because of it.  Race relations are better under TrUmp.  We could expect more race cards being played under Biden.

faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2733 on: April 26, 2020, 10:07:16 am »

So... why have all those "intelligent Americans," "knowledge" and "reasons" produced the world of ISIS, failed Arab Spring, ruined Libya, BLM, #MeToo, identity politics, the worse racial relations in 50 years, slow economy recovery, etc. etc... and ultimately produced Donald Trump?
The fall of man? There is evil in the world?
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Krug

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2734 on: April 26, 2020, 11:08:14 am »

Americans don't for VP's or cabinets.  They're voting for a leader.  So it's either Donald or Joe.


That is precisely so Alan  -  So you get the consequences I suggested with one "leader" or another  - I have to confess that to this outsider neither look good or adequate leadership material -  so it is crucial to consider what teams they would choose and how they would relate to the Congress and the outside world.  Despite what you may think the USA is not the whole world and neither is it, or could be, an island unto itself.

I do sometimes wonder if Americans understand their own Constitution - it was designed exactly to prevent an all-powerful President because the Founding Fathers were fearful of a replica all-powerful English King  - hence all of the concern to create a balance of power between the 3 branches of government to check excess by any one of them - and a federal system to deliberately disperse power to avoid the concentration of power of the English monarchical state of the time which they were escaping and were determined to build safeguards against it happening in America.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2735 on: April 26, 2020, 11:11:07 am »

Just Trump or Biden ??

No Alan it is not as simple as that  -  what you get is Trump plus the unqualified and doubtfully honest and competent people he appoints, the encouragement of many aspects of America that contradict and undermine the good intentions and efforts of the Founding Fathers and the unnecessary and counter-productive alienation of the allies and partners that even a state as powerful and influential in the world still needs for it's own safety and prosperity. Or Biden who, if nothing else, could bring in his train a return to the processes of debate and considered political behaviour for which America is famed and in which it has played a large part in educating and guiding the world for over a century, where intelligent Americans and others who have bothered to study problems and produced recommendations based on knowledge and reason shape American and world policy, where allies and partners are encouraged to play important roles in aiding American influence for good in a dangerous and rapidly changing world.

It is not just Donald or Joe - would that it were as simple as that - but it isn't and cannot be - sadly !

We get that with anyone we elect, regardless of party. 

We have had the "intelligent Americans and others who have bothered to study problems and produced recommendations based on knowledge and reason shape American and world policy," and they pretty much screwed it up.  Its was and is time to do things differently.

Let's make a comparison, not perfect I admit, but its what comes to mind. 

Steve Jobs and Apple.   Apple is currently a very well managed company by all accounts and I'll admit it has made me a bunch of money.  But is Apple still the company it once was?  I'll wager no.  Why?  because while they are well managed by Tim Cook the lack vision of Steve Jobs that made them the company they are now.  Jobs was willing to fail, he was willing to shake things up, he was willing to piss people off, he was willing to tell prople they didn't know want they wanted and then he gave them things they had no idea were coming their way.  He was by all accounts a terrible people manager and business manager, but he was a salesman - and reality star of sorts.  And his main focus was Apple first.

Trump is a lot like Jobs in many respects.  He thinks big, he thinks out loud, he doesn't really care if some folks think is his ideas are crazy, and he is not afraid to fail.  He wants AMERICA FIRST.  America has had many "statesmen" as President who didn't really make a dent.  We don't need the safe now. We need BOLD.  We need someone like Trump.  Warts and all he has performed.  Him pissing off the people is not a bug, its a feature.  He has a vison and people like it.  Its not unlike why Bernie has his following. 

Trump, like Jobs, says he wants something, now find a way to do it. 

We hear a lot of talk about how international politics is nuanced and difficult and requires lots of careful discussion and learning.  Not a gut level thing.

But thats not really true is it?  When you cut to the chase and get past all of the posturing and talk, in the end it comes down to the gut level thing between two men ( or women).  The leaders decide, after all of the diplomats and advisers have their say, if the deal feels right to then...in their gut. A SINGLE MAN on each side of the table makes a choice. 

For me, I want a guy like Trump ( or Steve Jobs) making the gut level calls, because they have been doing it their entire lives.  Win, Lose or Draw.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2736 on: April 26, 2020, 11:12:06 am »

So... why have all those "intelligent Americans," "knowledge" and "reasons" produced the world of ISIS, failed Arab Spring, ruined Libya, BLM, #MeToo, identity politics, the worse racial relations in 50 years, slow economy recovery, etc. etc... and ultimately produced Donald Trump?

You forget the people who love and trust science but believe in unlimited "genders"
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2737 on: April 26, 2020, 11:13:06 am »

That is precisely so Alan  -  So you get the consequences I suggested with one "leader" or another  - I have to confess that to this outsider neither look good or adequate leadership material -  so it is crucial to consider what teams they would choose and how they would relate to the Congress and the outside world.  Despite what you may think the USA is not the whole world and neither is it, or could be, an island unto itself.

I do sometimes wonder if Americans understand their own Constitution - it was designed exactly to prevent an all-powerful President because the Founding Fathers were fearful of a replica all-powerful English King  - hence all of the concern to create a balance of power between the 3 branches of government to check excess by any one of them - and a federal system to deliberately disperse power to avoid the concentration of power of the English monarchical state of the time which they were escaping and were determined to build safeguards against it happening in America.

Trump has never violated the constitution. He's always acted within his authority. There's never been a constitutional crisis.  What are you talking about? 

faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2738 on: April 26, 2020, 11:17:02 am »

You forget the people who love and trust science but believe in unlimited "genders"

I am not familiar with the term "unlimited genders".
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LesPalenik

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2739 on: April 26, 2020, 11:21:39 am »

Quote
Trump is a lot like Jobs in many respects.  He thinks big, he thinks out loud, he doesn't really care if some folks think is his ideas are crazy, and he is not afraid to fail.  He wants AMERICA FIRST.  America has had many "statesmen" as President who didn't really make a dent. 

Jobs was smart.
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