Covid 19 Updates Part 2

[Craig Lamson]

This was nothing but an embarrassment, and even the guy who fired him said that he had no particular evidence that Crozier leaked the letter. His complaint was that Crozier sent the letter to a number of people in the military and Defense Department, and it may well have been one of them who leaked it. Crozier apparently did what he did because he was facing what he considered to be a desperate situation and he wasn't getting any serious attention from the DOD or his immediate superior. Strictly following the chain of command means that you go up to one guy to make the decision whether to pass the letter on -- the rear admiral who was in charge of the fleet of which Crozier's ship was a part. If he delays, or isn't informed, the virus continues to spread. So, Crozier went outside the chain of command.

China's no threat. Nobody's much of a threat anymore, except the U.S. What are the Chinese going to do, invade Japan? Sink an aircraft carrier? The reason why Iran wants nukes is because those nations with nukes are pretty much immune from invasion; that includes the US and anyone under the US umbrella. Of all the nations on earth, I only know one that routinely projects military power overseas. Guess who that is?

I served in the military, I covered the military in Iraq as a reporter, and I also hung out with both enlisted and officer veterans of the Israeli military. If Crozier had been in the Israeli military, he probably would have been promoted, because Israeli combat forces focus on getting things done, not being subservient to pencil-pushers further up the line.

Crozier's firing is a disgrace, and a large number of former DOD officials and military officers are saying so, especially in light of Trump's reversal of a military court that found a Navy SEAL guilty of war crimes, based on his own platoon's testimony. But that's Trump's military: a war criminal walks, a guy trying to save his mens' lives gets fired.

I'll let my friend, retired and decorated ( and heavily injured) Navy Seal give you his view.


This capt was apparently very popular with his crew which is good, but to the extreme could be the result of poor leadership.  They’re not supposed to like you, only respect you enough to follow you down range.  Which means being competent.   So jury out in my mind on leadership.
 
It appears he didn’t like the response he got from his higher ups.  He was probably caught up in the moment and worried about his crew and very uncharacteristically acted impulsively.   This in my mind led to his undoing.
 
He blew by the chain of command at light speed.  There was an admiral, the battlegroup commander, on his vessel.  Why he didn’t sit down and talk it through with him is a mystery.  Or he tried and didn’t like what he heard.  We don’t know which.
 
But in the end he had to know what would happen when he penned that email and CC’d who he did.  He had to know he’d be relieved with cause.  NO way around that.  So he made a choice.
 
But here’s what gets me.  That battle group, especially considering the recent launches from N. Korea, HAD to remain at peak readiness no matter what.  My guess is the battle group, maybe not his ship the carrier.. but one of the frigates.. had to have the new ballistic missile interception systems.. critical considering N. Korea.  His action took the battle group off-line and  endangered the entire country.
 
The CINCPAC might have had another battle group steaming (Navy term) his way to replace him, but it could have been a week away.  Considering few people in the age group of the bulk of that crew was in danger of dying from the virus.. he made a very poor decision.  Even if they were going to die, he made a poor decision because each sailor on that ship is expected to be expendable if it protects out country.
 
Probably not a popular view, but I’m one of the few with actual command experience and I know what it means.
 

[BernardLanguillier]

Oh my Bernard, you can’t even remember your own words, your illness must be more pronounced that I originally thought.  Let’s review shall we?  You have told us how you believe Trumps actions will cause more death and more damage to the economy.  How do you know the FUTURE Bernard?  Sheesh, you may be beyond help. 

I love this you say “ should have done” like you again know the future.  Your problem is that you have not made any “relevant points”.  60 percent of Americans find Trump is doing a good job, last time I looked. 

You don’t understand our system of government, And you don’t understand our people.  All you understand is your hate for a Trump.  It’s kind of sad.  What’s sadder is you even told Joe, and a good swath of America by extension they we complicit in the death of scores of Americans by supporting their President.  That’s pretty sick Bernard.  In fact it’s disgusting.

You spend multiple posts denigrating Americans because they don’t share your hatred of Trump, yet your own country is a mess.  You say Trump did the same but the reality is just the opposite.  His administration was truthful with the American people about the dangers of this virus from day one.  Everyone had the information they needed to make informed decisions.  He acted within the scope of his legal ability, and at times offered hope the results might not be as bad as feared.  He spend massive amounts of time speaking with the Governors of every State and him and his team of experts offered them advice and information.

Ok, you don’t like...BFD.  You don’t get a vote .

I hope you find a cure for your sickness.

I see I see, thanks for the kind explanation, now..
- unfortunately the numbers already are disastrous in the US. My comments are about the present and the past. And... do you really think that, at the current pace of spreading (32,000 new cases and 1200 new casualties yesterday), it’s not going to get much worse?
- I have been very critical about the way Japan is (not) acting although the numbers are very good while you show blind support although they are disastrous in the US
- I am absolutely not denigrating Americans, you are by extrapolating your own folly to your compatriotes. Fortunately a large majority of Americans share my views that Trump’s words and delayed action is irresponsible and falls totally short of what a leader such as the President of the US should have been doing
- I don’t believe that you know what Trump discussed with governors in what timing, that’s not public information. And I don’t know either. But what you know like I do is that Trump continued for far too long to publicly downplay the seriousness of the pandemic. Only are you not willing to acknowledge this. This has nothing to do with understanding the political system of the US and you know it full well. But who knows, he was maybe telling to the public « don’t worry, the corona is not a US problem » and encouraging governors privately to take strong measures? According to you why would he have acted this way?
- I do of course acknowledge that Trump is acting now. Again my point is that he should have acted the way he is currently acting at least two weeks earlier (as a follower) or 3 weeks earlier (as a leader). Perfectly clear information was available in the scientific community in the US. Instead he took a conscious decision to downplay the crisis to faveur the economy.

What you should frankly ask yourself now is what damage Trump is going to do next and whether your attitude is responsible.

Cheers,
Bernard

[hogloff]

If you watch they try for the most part, but they are people and sometimes it easy to forget.  Things happen, people move, questions get asked of one person and then to another in almost the same breath.  They cross paths etc.  They are not programed robots. Is there any harm in trying, of course not. Do human beings sometimes have a hard time breaking decades of social interaction memory. of course they do.  I think its a really petty snipe if you ask me.

We have a daily update here in British Columbia and there is no problems with decades of brain matter getting in the way. Purposeful separation and distance management. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Your excuses sound more like those teenage kids that got interviewed as to why they are not separated. "It's too hard to talk", "we forget", "I don't know"

[hogloff]

That writer did not use a broad brush, he used a 24" paint roller.

Just lots of different instances...some directly influenced by what Trump says...so it does matter what he says and does.

[Craig Lamson]

Just lots of different instances...some directly influenced by what Trump says...so it does matter what he says and does.

Oh please, what a crappy hit piece  The writer wants to blame Reps for dising the guidelines.  I wonder what the political spectrum of the Spring Breakers in Forida was?  You think it was a republicain convention down there?  Can we even know to trust the writer is telling the truth?

You need to find better material.

[Craig Lamson]

We have a daily update here in British Columbia and there is no problems with decades of brain matter getting in the way. Purposeful separation and distance management. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Your excuses sound more like those teenage kids that got interviewed as to why they are not separated. "It's too hard to talk", "we forget", "I don't know"

Good for you and BC. 

[hogloff]

Good for you and BC.

It's not about me or you it's about your leader and the image he portrays. Surely put down those biased eyes for once and take a clear view. A person...President...standing there side by side with others asking the general public to social isolate at least 6 feet apart...what king of f'ing message is that sending.

You sure must love your pres to make such loyal excuse after excuse without any substance.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Have they begun to screen the population for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies using a blood test in The Netherlands?  It strikes me that the country's population is small enough that massive testing is achievable at a modest cost.  I know that researchers at Erasmus Univ had done the preliminary work that could be used for validation.  I believe there are some European companies that may be manufacturing these tests.  We only have ONE approved for use in the US.  Lots of Asian companies have developed them but not validated according to a defined standard.

There is still a lack of testing capability, so tests are reserved for medical personnel. But we are getting closer to the moment where the number of serum tests will be ramped up.

In a Friday-evening talkshow, Hanneke Schuitemaker, Professor at the Leiden University and the head of Janssen Viral Vaccines branch of Johnson and Johnson, told that a promising vaccine candidate is being developed and tested. But it is not a done deal yet, and there is no guarantee that we'll soon have a vaccine. There are some 40 vaccine initiatives in the world and something like 10% of those will succeed. They started their work on the virus in January as soon as the genetic code was published by the Chinese, and they made 10 designs based on that, and these have been tested in animals. In the beginning of September 2020 they will start testing this in humans, which is a month earlier than they initially anticipated because they have been "crunching" the procedures, trying to optimize the critical path.

They are already ramping up production, thanks to the financial commitment of the USA, not yet knowing whether the vaccine will be a success. But when it turns out to be a success, then they will already have an initial amount of stock available early next year. The vaccine will be made available as a not-for-profit product during the attempts to get a grip on the worldwide outbreak (the "emergency use application" period).

[Craig Lamson]

It's not about me or you it's about your leader and the image he portrays. Surely put down those biased eyes for once and take a clear view. A person...President...standing there side by side with others asking the general public to social isolate at least 6 feet apart...what king of f'ing message is that sending.

You sure must love your pres to make such loyal excuse after excuse without any substance.

You know I just watched a number of BC press conferences.  Wow, one or 2 people, 30 to 60 mins. Minimal interaction with the press.   So we can't really judge how well your vaunted leaders would do in the same enviorment.

But lets ask you this question. Do you stand side by side in your home with your family or do you practice social distancing?  Trump is in his house, with his govenment family. They are trusted and safe.  Aside from some picture that you think is telling people its ok not to social distance in a public setting when the words being spoken in a PRIVATE ONE suggest the distanceing action.

Thinking people understand and like I said eariler its a silly nitpick. But that all you guys really have is a silly nitpick, and its all you do. 

[hogloff]

You know I just watched a number of BC press conferences.  Wow, one or 2 people, 30 to 60 mins. Minimal interaction with the press.   So we can't really judge how well your vaunted leaders would do in the same enviorment.

But lets ask you this question. Do you stand side by side in your home with your family or do you practice social distancing?  Trump is in his house, with his govenment family. They are trusted and safe.  Aside from some picture that you think is telling people its ok not to social distance in a public setting when the words being spoken in a PRIVATE ONE suggest the distanceing action.

Thinking people understand and like I said eariler its a silly nitpick. But that all you guys really have is a silly nitpick, and its all you do.

I've given you plenty of reasons why he should practice what he preaches and examples from a magazine of people still not practicing. Fine. Now tell me one good reason why he should not come onto the podium and lead by example...just one good reason. Think hard.

[BobShaw]

Trump is in his house, with his govenment family. They are trusted and safe.  Aside from some picture that you think is telling people its ok not to social distance in a public setting when the words being spoken in a PRIVATE ONE suggest the distanceing action.

Thinking people understand and like I said eariler its a silly nitpick. But that all you guys really have is a silly nitpick, and its all you do.

28,100 new cases in the US today, more than a third of the new cases on the planet. More confirmed cases than Italy and Spain combined.
Beam me up Scotty.

[Alan Klein]

Just more Trump bashing that's been going on for four years.  It's easy to Monday morning quarterback after you know what happened. Everyone's a genius after the fact with 20/20 hindsight.  Meanwhile Spain, Italy, Great Britain are worse in death per capita than the US and Germany is very close.  Why hasn't your social medical care worked?  Why haven't your leaders been more effective?  Why didn't you have enough ventilators? Why are you infatuated with knocking America instead of straightening out your own messes? 

When are you people going to tell us what we have to do going forward?   I haven't heard any constructive recommendations for the future because you might make a mistake in what you have to offer,  and it's easy to take pot shots at others.  What are you going to do when you're still out of a job in three months? What is your country going to do with 10% unemployment or worse?  How will you deal with inflation?  How will you plan for another bout next year?  And finally, what will you complain about if Trump isn't president in January? 

[Alan Klein]

I've given you plenty of reasons why he should practice what he preaches and examples from a magazine of people still not practicing. Fine. Now tell me one good reason why he should not come onto the podium and lead by example...just one good reason. Think hard.

You mean lead by example like your bigoted Canadian leader who three times got dressed up in black paint?

[Craig Lamson]

I see I see, thanks for the kind explanation, now..
- unfortunately the numbers already are disastrous in the US. My comments are about the present and the past.

Speak the truth for once Bernard.  You proclaim to see the future, and we have it in print. 

And... do you really think that, at the current pace of spreading (32,000 new cases and 1200 new casualties yesterday), it’s not going to get much worse?

Of courses its going to get worse.  Whats your point?  Unless you have the ability to go back in time change the past and replay history you will have no idea what a different possible outcome might be.  All the rest is just make believe on your part.

- I have been very critical about the way Japan is (not) acting although the numbers are very good while you show blind support although they are disastrous in the US

Well, all we have to go on here are your posts to this forum about Japans handling of the crisis, and unless I'm mistaken your only comment about the situation in Japan came after I pointed it out.  If you have otherer posts that back up your claim, provide them. I have not seen them in your post history.

-I am absolutely not denigrating Americans, you are by extrapolating your own folly to your compatriotes. Fortunately a large majority of Americans share my views that Trump’s words and delayed action is irresponsible and falls totally short of what a leader such as the President of the US should have been doing

That's an utter falsehood Benard.  Lets review your words...

You don't need to answer me, it's really between you and your conscience. But make no mistake, the non/delayed actions of Trump will have resulted int he death of thousand of people. And you, keeping supporting him, share some responsibility in those deaths.

Your words are despicable. They reek.  You do in fact denigrate Americans, starting with Joe and including all people who support Trump.  You should be utterly ashamed.

- I don’t believe that you know what Trump discussed with governors in what timing, that’s not public information. And I don’t know either. But what you know like I do is that Trump continued for far too long to publicly downplay the seriousness of the pandemic. Only are you not willing to acknowledge this. This has nothing to do with understanding the political system of the US and you know it full well. But who knows, he was maybe telling to the public « don’t worry, the corona is not a US problem »
and encouraging governirs privately to take strong measures? According to you why would he have acted this way?

What we do know is what the govenors had to say about their conservsations wit Trump, the most visable being Cuomo of New York.  He praised Trump for his response for the most part, despite some disagreements.  Trump and his TEAM OF EXPERTS gave factual information at every press availability about the nature of the virus and hte unfolding crisis. Nothing was withheld from the American people.  No expert had to change their views because of Trump.  They were and still are free to speak their minds.  That destoys your silly claim that Trump was trying to downplay the problem.  Did he express hope things might not get as bad as predicted, of course. Thats what leaders also do.

- I do of course acknowledge that Trump is acting now. Again my point is that he should have acted the way he is currently acting at least two weeks earlier (as a follower) or 3 weeks earlier (as a leader). Perfectly clear information was available in the scientific community in the US. Instead he took a conscious devision to downplay the crisis to faveur the economy.

Your silly claim that he tried to downplay the crisis has been debunked.  Time for you to take that ball and run along home.  The economy is a vaild concern, not only to Trump but to every American. You don't throw aways peoples livelyhood, their bank balances, their businesses and perhaps even their homes without careful consideration.
And lets be clear here.  You stated Trump needed to do a complete lockdown of the country. That was your claim of the action he had delayed.  Your ignorance of how the USA works, forced you to try and backpedal to try and save face.  What you claimed Trump should have done was impossible. 

What you should frankly ask yourself now is what damage Trump is going to do next and whether your attitude is responsible.
Cheers,
Bernard

What you might want to be asking yourself is why you think its ok to suggest that Americans ( and forum members) who support Trump are in part responsible for covid-19 deaths in America.  And then perhaps ask yourself how you come back from such a horrible statement.

[LesPalenik]

You mean lead by example like your bigoted Canadian leader who three times got dressed up in black paint?

Dressing up in black paint was stupid, but it didn't kill any one. Unlike denying early C19 warnings and delaying lock downs.

[BernardLanguillier]

Just more Trump bashing that's been going on for four years.  It's easy to Monday morning quarterback after you know what happened. Everyone's a genius after the fact with 20/20 hindsight.  Meanwhile Spain, Italy, Great Britain are worse in death per capita than the US and Germany is very close.  Why hasn't your social medical care worked?  Why haven't your leaders been more effective?  Why didn't you have enough ventilators? Why are you infatuated with knocking America instead of straightening out your own messes? 

When are you people going to tell us what we have to do going forward?   I haven't heard any constructive recommendations for the future because you might make a mistake in what you have to offer,  and it's easy to take pot shots at others.  What are you going to do when you're still out of a job in three months? What is your country going to do with 10% unemployment or worse?  How will you deal with inflation?  How will you plan for another bout next year?  And finally, what will you complain about if Trump isn't president in January?

Like in the US, the leaders in Europe are very heavily criticized by a large majority of the population for their lack of preparation and, above all, for their delayed reaction.

But you are right... there are probably blind idiots there who keep supporting them at any cost regardless of how screamingly obvious their shortcoming are.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Craig Lamson]

I've given you plenty of reasons why he should practice what he preaches and examples from a magazine of people still not practicing. Fine. Now tell me one good reason why he should not come onto the podium and lead by example...just one good reason. Think hard.

I've given you plenty. You just refuse to accept them. So be it.

But lets talk aobut your magazine and how that hit piece works by using another illustration.  The premise of that article is that Republicans are bad and democrats are good because they are following the rules.  The author found a couple of examples, which we dont know are true or not,
and proceeds to run his paint roller to reach his desired conclusion.

Now lets suppose we want to use the authors tactics and smear the Dems. We could point out that in the US, many cities with the largest impact of the virus and the most cases are Democratic run and based cites.  An official of the city even suggested people go out ant part as the virus was starting to spread.  So, by extention Deomcrats are bad and Rebublicans are doing a better job of follwing the rules.

Like I said, you need to find better material.

[hogloff]

You mean lead by example like your bigoted Canadian leader who three times got dressed up in black paint?

Yup...he took full responsibility for those actions. No denials. Now where to start with your leader in chief. Let's look at hiring hookers...or maybe grabbing snatches. Man you can open up a can of worms and a flock of robins will descend upon you.

Trudeau, in the time of need has stepped up and provided desperately needed leadership to the point outspoken opposition are crediting him. He's got all levels of government in lock step...including the opposition that just lost a close election.

Now let's at the leadership in the Un-United states of the Americas.

[Craig Lamson]

Dressing up in black paint was stupid, but it didn't kill any one. Unlike denying early C19 warnings and delaying lock downs.

Why do you keep repeating the same old lies.  Nothing was denied and Trump had ZERO ability to lock any STATE down.

[hogloff]

I've given you plenty. You just refuse to accept them. So be it.

But lets talk aobut your magazine and how that hit piece works by using another illustration.  The premise of that article is that Republicans are bad and democrats are good because they are following the rules.  The author found a couple of examples, which we dont know are true or not,
and proceeds to run his paint roller to reach his desired conclusion.

Now lets suppose we want to use the authors tactics and smear the Dems. We could point out that in the US, many cities with the largest impact of the virus and the most cases are Democratic run and based cites.  An official of the city even suggested people go out ant part as the virus was starting to spread.  So, by extention Deomcrats are bad and Rebublicans are doing a better job of follwing the rules.

Like I said, you need to find better material.

Please give me a good reason why Trump does not practice what he preaches to his people. Just one...but it better be good. Think hard.