Covid 19 Updates Part 2

[Manoli]

I'm not sure it is entirely different. My understanding is a pre-existing condition is a condition that began in the past but might continue into the present, although usually under some degree of control through medication.
[...]
Of course, the problem here is that only 355 fatalities have been analysed.

I think it is considered to be 'understood', in this type of generalisation, that an underlying medical condition is one that requires medicine which weakens the immune system, or is of a nature where the underlying 'structural weakness' is chronic.

*/ heart disease, lung disease, diabetes, cancer, cerebrovascular disease, renal disease, liver disease or
high blood pressure, any disease treated by monoclonal anti-tnf
*/ have a weak immune system (immunosuppressed)
*/ have a medical condition that can affect your breathing
*/ anyone over the age of 60 ?

355 fatalities out of >10,000 deaths ?
I don't think it's wildly off the mark, but most of the UK deaths, for example, are of people with pre-existing medical conditions.

[Robert Roaldi]

Herd mentality?   

What if the herd is heading in the correct direction?

Popular media likes to make heroes of some people who zig this way when others are going that way. It's a compelling story, makes for good movies. It can be a romantic idea. Noboby makes movies about the other 99,000 who went against the grain but made the wrong choice. It's not going against the herd that's important, it's going against the herd when the herd is wrong.

[Rob C]

You have a problem with someone using a sport to rest their mind and body in times of stress?

With a president, yes; he should be keeping his mind on the existential game, not any gutta-percha bubble in white... If his front line medical teams can cope with those long shifts, surely he can too. In times of war, and this is the biggest war right inside your parlour ever, leaders sleep in snatches in their HQs, rarely venturing beyond. If he can't hack it, he should move sideways and let in someone who can. That does not imply another political party: they appear to be just as moribund, if not, realistically and literally, even more so.

[Alan Klein]

What if the herd is heading in the correct direction?

Popular media likes to make heroes of some people who zig this way when others are going that way. It's a compelling story, makes for good movies. It can be a romantic idea. Noboby makes movies about the other 99,000 who went against the grain but made the wrong choice. It's not going against the herd that's important, it's going against the herd when the herd is wrong.

If the herd is being lead by good leadership, then it's probably OK.  It's when the herd is out of control that it becomes questionable.  Do we have good leadership?  Or is much of it based on personal desires.  Unfortunately, at least in America, with the election coming up, everyone is jockeying for position.  They all want to get re-elected or elected for new.  That's the reason the vote in the senate was 96-0.  The president, Biden, all the politicians are playing this thing politically for power and success.  So everyone is promising all sorts of things not caring of the long term consequences.  People are just as bad.  Everyone is looking for something from the government so they don't have to face personal consequences.  Let others pay for it.  Where's my toilet paper?  Where's my ventilator?  Where's my unemployment insurance.  Few want to chip in.  At least not money

During WWII, Americans didn't get money from the government.  They sent money to the government and bought War Bonds to support the effort. Now everyone looks to the government for a bailout and the government is broke.  What a difference 80 years makes.

[Alan Klein]

With a president, yes; he should be keeping his mind on the existential game, not any gutta-percha bubble in white... If his front line medical teams can cope with those long shifts, surely he can too. In times of war, and this is the biggest war right inside your parlour ever, leaders sleep in snatches in their HQs, rarely venturing beyond. If he can't hack it, he should move sideways and let in someone who can. That does not imply another political party: they appear to be just as moribund, if not, realistically and literally, even more so.

Your Prime Minister Churchill's frequent scotch and soda didn't affect England's war effort I don;t believe.  It probably made him more effective when he worked.  Same with Trump, who doesn't drink at all, or anyone else.  To argue Trump doesn;t work hard, well, you're really not watching how hard he does work all the time.  The guy never stops.  He's at it 24 hours a day.  Even when he plays golf, he's with other politicians or foreign leaders.  SO he's doing business even when he's getting some down time.  Your petty cheap shots are really tiring. 

[Alan Klein]

Alan G.  What do you think about this drug?  Is it effective in treating Covid?
https://www.polygraph.info/a/covid-19-china-turkey-fact-check/30513523.html

[Craig Lamson]

Utter nonsense.

Those are sheep, not cows...

[Craig Lamson]

With a president, yes; he should be keeping his mind on the existential game, not any gutta-percha bubble in white... If his front line medical teams can cope with those long shifts, surely he can too. In times of war, and this is the biggest war right inside your parlour ever, leaders sleep in snatches in their HQs, rarely venturing beyond. If he can't hack it, he should move sideways and let in someone who can. That does not imply another political party: they appear to be just as moribund, if not, realistically and literally, even more so.

How do you know his mind is not on the existential game while he is on the course?  Perhaps he does his best thinking when on the links?  You can't judge if you don't know.  Its been said Trump only sleeps 4 hours a day and we know from past experience he can run rings around most people for sheer staying power.

I would venture Trump is running on just a few hours a sleep a night right now, and is more in you existential game that anyone imagines.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

I think it is considered to be 'understood', in this type of generalisation, that an underlying medical condition is one that requires medicine which weakens the immune system, or is of a nature where the underlying 'structural weakness' is chronic...

(Cross posting from another thread)

Italian stats:

The data set is from 6,000 deaths. Anecdotally, overweight men are the majority of patients and the data confirm it.

[pschefz]

I don't get why people would look at Trump for leadership in this. Trump does not care. he never has, he has never really pretended that he does. In this situation it has been very clear from the beginning that he does not care about the health of the American people but very much about the markets. Everything he has said and done clearly follows that line. The denials, the attempts to play down the situation....he still does not care how many people die because he will have a bed, care and toilet paper. So will his donors. That is a sad reality. Rich, white 1% will survive this. The do not care about the rest, the do care about how much money they will have when it is over and how they can turn it into more profit and how they can spin it to win the next term. The 2T package is perfect proof, without going into detail, it is all available....billions for companies that can get loans from banks anyway, millions for millions of actual people who cant pay for rent, food, healthcare and who are trying to home school their kids right now.
This is not about if Trump is stupid or not, it does not matter, he is smart enough to con enough influential people into keeping him in power and to tell enough stupid people what they want to hear. Is he a racist? who cares....he uses racism like it has been used for centuries in right wing politics and people still eat it up. He uses the bible when he needs it and people eat it up.
Golf: how can anyone defend Trump on his record when it comes to playing golf? He has attacked anyone and everyone for playing a minute of golf but plays exponentially more golf then anyone he attacked for it....and makes money off it by ripping off the government with his resort bills....and educated people defend this behavior? That has to be because in the end Trump helps them do what they want....
None of it is for the American people or the greater good....it is the worst kind of short term thinking, catch phrases to string people along.
There is no plan. Unless anyone counts inequality as a long term target.
Trump will not save anyone but himself and his donors, which is all he and they think about. And he and they have never really tried to hide that or lied about that. That is the one record he is very consistent with.

[Craig Lamson]

I don't get why people would look at Trump for leadership in this. Trump does not care. he never has, he has never really pretended that he does. In this situation it has been very clear from the beginning that he does not care about the health of the American people but very much about the markets. Everything he has said and done clearly follows that line. The denials, the attempts to play down the situation....he still does not care how many people die because he will have a bed, care and toilet paper. So will his donors. That is a sad reality. Rich, white 1% will survive this. The do not care about the rest, the do care about how much money they will have when it is over and how they can turn it into more profit and how they can spin it to win the next term. The 2T package is perfect proof, without going into detail, it is all available....billions for companies that can get loans from banks anyway, millions for millions of actual people who cant pay for rent, food, healthcare and who are trying to home school their kids right now.
This is not about if Trump is stupid or not, it does not matter, he is smart enough to con enough influential people into keeping him in power and to tell enough stupid people what they want to hear. Is he a racist? who cares....he uses racism like it has been used for centuries in right wing politics and people still eat it up. He uses the bible when he needs it and people eat it up.
Golf: how can anyone defend Trump on his record when it comes to playing golf? He has attacked anyone and everyone for playing a minute of golf but plays exponentially more golf then anyone he attacked for it....and makes money off it by ripping off the government with his resort bills....and educated people defend this behavior? That has to be because in the end Trump helps them do what they want....
None of it is for the American people or the greater good....it is the worst kind of short term thinking, catch phrases to string people along.
There is no plan. Unless anyone counts inequality as a long term target.
Trump will not save anyone but himself and his donors, which is all he and they think about. And he and they have never really tried to hide that or lied about that. That is the one record he is very consistent with.

Just wow.  Your TDS is very strong today.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Oh, grow up! (@ pschefz)

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I don't get why people would look at Trump for leadership in this. Trump does not care. he never has, he has never really pretended that he does. In this situation it has been very clear from the beginning that he does not care about the health of the American people but very much about the markets.

It's more about his reelection ...
With the economy tanking, there was little credit to claim.

What happened to a better Healthcare plan to replace the Affordable Care Act?
The Pandemic Response capability of the CDC was destroyed.

Oh, wait, this isn't about Trump, even if he thinks it is. This is supposed to be about putting together a plan to help the states that cannot handle such a crisis that transcends the state borders. This is not about states having to bid the highest price to get stockpiled assistance. This is about helping people to help people, organized by experts who actually know what they're doing.

This is about saving lives and avoid a horrible suffocation death for thousands upon thousands!

[LesPalenik]

Your Prime Minister Churchill's frequent scotch and soda didn't affect England's war effort I don;t believe.  It probably made him more effective when he worked.  Same with Trump, who doesn't drink at all, or anyone else.  To argue Trump doesn;t work hard, well, you're really not watching how hard he does work all the time.  The guy never stops.  He's at it 24 hours a day.  Even when he plays golf, he's with other politicians or foreign leaders.  SO he's doing business even when he's getting some down time.  Your petty cheap shots are really tiring.

If he used his tweet time to play golf instead, nobody would complain.

[LesPalenik]

How do you know his mind is not on the existential game while he is on the course?  Perhaps he does his best thinking when on the links?  You can't judge if you don't know.  Its been said Trump only sleeps 4 hours a day and we know from past experience he can run rings around most people for sheer staying power.

I would venture Trump is running on just a few hours a sleep a night right now, and is more in you existential game that anyone imagines.

That would explain some of his interviews and executive decisions.

[William Walker]

I've come across  several articles which mention that 99% of those who die from Covid-19 have other serious medical conditions. This implies that the Covid-19 virus might be just 'the last straw that broke the camel's back', and that those who are healthy, with no medical conditions such as diabetes or high blood pressure, are safe, and will experience relatively mild symptoms if they are exposed to the virus.

However, such articles always seen to mention just Italy, which seems to imply that Italians, especially the elderly, are very unhealthy. I'm wondering if this is a general principle that applies in all countries, that is, if you are healthy without any medical conditions, whatever your age, you will have an extremely low risk of dying from Covid-19 infection.

This article was written by Siddhartha Mukherjee, the author of "Emperor Of All Maladies", a brilliant book on cancer.
You might find it interesting...

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/06/how-does-the-coronavirus-behave-inside-a-patient#intcid=recommendations_default-popular_b45fb4bf-9e51-4ad5-9508-0e05a427e5d8_popular4-1

[Rob C]

How do you know his mind is not on the existential game while he is on the course?  Perhaps he does his best thinking when on the links?  You can't judge if you don't know.  Its been said Trump only sleeps 4 hours a day and we know from past experience he can run rings around most people for sheer staying power.

I would venture Trump is running on just a few hours a sleep a night right now, and is more in you existential game that anyone imagines.

Does his best thinking on the links? Just like others do their best thinkin' when they've been drinkin'?

Four hours of sleep per night: highly possible. It would take him most of the night to find his way past "greatest" in order to formulate the next clause in his tweets! The only existential game I believe he knows is the one surrounding the Trump fortunes.

I can't judge if I don't know; but you can speculate on the same basis?

[Alan Klein]

(Cross posting from another thread)

Italian stats:

The data set is from 6,000 deaths. Anecdotally, overweight men are the majority of patients and the data confirm it.

The top chart shows men dying a lot more than women.  Figures. 

[Alan Klein]

It's more about his reelection ...
With the economy tanking, there was little credit to claim.

What happened to a better Healthcare plan to replace the Affordable Care Act?
The Pandemic Response capability of the CDC was destroyed.

Oh, wait, this isn't about Trump, even if he thinks it is. This is supposed to be about putting together a plan to help the states that cannot handle such a crisis that transcends the state borders. This is not about states having to bid the highest price to get stockpiled assistance. This is about helping people to help people, organized by experts who actually know what they're doing.

This is about saving lives and avoid a horrible suffocation death for thousands upon thousands!

But there are many people, young people with families, who are also concerned about where their next meal is coming from.  Sure they're concerned about the virus for themselves and their parents if they are alive.  But earning a living to feed your family is also important.  PAying doctor bills, rent mortgage, college costs, food, clothes, a roof over their heads, all costs money that you have to work for.  This is not an either/or situation. 

I don;t know your situation. Maybe you're in better shape than most.  But there are millions of people who don't have savings or are getting wiped out losing their jobs and live week to week through no fault of their own.  Its unfair to condemn them and ask them to sacrifice their families well being.  These people are not evil nor are those politicians who are working to protect the economy.  No, it isn't about Trump.  Trump is just reflecting what these people are concerned about.  Sure it's about re-election also.   That's why Trump is concerned.  He's reflecting the voter's concern so he can get re-elected.  Cuomo is doing the same thing as governor of NY.  He's hoping the democrat party will replace Biden with him as the presidential candidate.  That's how things work in a democracy.  If you want a government that operates on its own without worrying about re-election and what the people think, then go to North Korea or Cuba or Iran. 

[Alan Klein]

If he used his tweet time to play golf instead, nobody would complain.

If we had an honest press that would report what he does in a fair way, he wouldn't have to tweet.