Covid 19 Updates Part 2

[Craig Lamson]

I don't see that as a get out of jail card for any other than his base. The Democrats will simply argue that if he had done more, better, sooner, the death toll would have been lower than it actually turns out to be.

Sure they will.  But will it do them any good?  I don't think so.  YMMV

[Alan Klein]

The Democrats will claim it should have been better and the republicans will claim it would have been worse but for Trump.  But, he'll get credit if the stock market rebounds, deaths stop, the disease ends, and a good portion of people are back working.

However, none of us should count our chickens before they hatch.   We've got a long hard road ahead.  What should be concerning is that next year, will we face a recurrence of the disease?  What will the printing of money do and will the recession really be stopped by the phony money being created?  We were due for a recession in any case after all the debt we've run up.  The virus was the pin that pricked the bubble.  We've got no savings.  The government is broke.  If unemployment cannot be dropped back down, all those out of work will create a debt crisis where banks and government holding mortgages, car loans, and corporate bonds failing, will create another financial crises.  We're no way out of the woods.

[JoeKitchen]

I don't see that as a get out of jail card for any other than his base. The Democrats will simply argue that if he had done more, better, sooner, the death toll would have been lower than it actually turns out to be.

They could argue that ... if they actually were calling for it back then. 

However at the time, every single person on both sides downplayed this, including all of the media and Dems.  Then, to add to that, the one thing every health experts says saved lives and gave us an advantage to not become like other countries was closing off all travel to China.  Biden, and the rest of the Dems, all called this unnecessary and xenophobic, which is a major liability for them if they criticize Trump over his response. 

So they really do not have any legs to stand on here, which is why Joe Biden on CNN the other day insisted that Trump was doing a good job.  Yes, he actually said this of Trump.  On top of this, it is now coming out that the Obama administration was warned about a ventilator shortage, which just adds to Biden's liability in this argument. 

(The only one who could partially criticize Trump on this is Cuomo.  He has some bad public moments as well on this, but Biden really painted himself into a corner here.) 

Now, do I feel Trump could have done better?  Yes.  He made a good move closing off travel to China, but then wasted February.  But this was due to the overall apathy that the entirety of the country World had on this.  De Blasio told New Yorkers to not worry and to continue their lives as normal (was actually question by Jake Tapper over the weekend) and of course their are others.  But going back to my original point ...

It is obvious some in the media are trying to put Trump into a Catch-22 by constantly talking about the worse possible predictions, while simply ignoring more plausible others.  (Dr. Deborah Birx admonished the media recently for just this.)  If Trump ignores them, then he can be criticized for not taking the virus seriously and costing lives, which can be used against him in November.  However, if he does shut down the country, the economy will be destroyed, which can be used against him in November.  However, the caveat here is that the media constantly used that 2.2M figure, which gives Trump an out politically.  So long as the death toll does not approach that, the media have given Trump a way to declare victory politically. 

PS.  I think the real responsibility goes to both China and WHO.  It is now coming to light China may have known about this as far back as November and told no one.  They were more concerned with their own reputation then the Chinese people and the world.  Then, the WHO has shown itself to become a shrill for China, and simply republished all of the Chinese propaganda throughout January without sending a single investigator to Wuhan.  Even now, WHO continues to push this propaganda, has gone to great lengths to try and make sure the virus is not referred to as Chinese, and, even recently, refused to even discuss Taiwan's exemplary response on containing the virus merely due to political reasons.  I think our relations with both need to be seriously questioned and reviewed after all of this. 

[Alan Klein]

Meanwhile the middle class will pay for the "rescue" through inflation.  The US Treasury with this new legislation has been given the equivalent of over $4 trillion dollar slush fund over the $2 trillion to cycle through banks to bail out corporations and banks in trouble.  The middle class will suffer as this inflation will raise prices on necessities like food, medical care, rent, local taxes, and clothes.  With high unemployment, forget pay raises to pay for the higher costs.  Of course, it seems they're preparing another bailout of those out of work as there's no end to money as long as you have ink and paper. 

[John Camp]

Meanwhile the middle class will pay for the "rescue" through inflation.  The US Treasury with this new legislation has been given the equivalent of over $4 trillion dollar slush fund over the $2 trillion to cycle through banks to bail out corporations and banks in trouble.  The middle class will suffer as this inflation will raise prices on necessities like food, medical care, rent, local taxes, and clothes.  With high unemployment, forget pay raises to pay for the higher costs.  Of course, it seems they're preparing another bailout of those out of work as there's no end to money as long as you have ink and paper.

You worry too much. That money simply isn't being printed and given away.While some of it is in grants, most of it is in th form of loans or purchases of bonds, including federal bonds, to try to keep some liquidity within the financial system. Over the next few years, the US inflation rate isn't expected to exceed about 2.3%. Which is okay. And your social security is inflation-adjusted.

[Robert Roaldi]

The Democrats will claim it should have been better and the republicans will claim it would have been worse but for Trump.  But, he'll get credit if the stock market rebounds, deaths stop, the disease ends, and a good portion of people are back working.

However, none of us should count our chickens before they hatch.   We've got a long hard road ahead.  What should be concerning is that next year, will we face a recurrence of the disease?  What will the printing of money do and will the recession really be stopped by the phony money being created?  We were due for a recession in any case after all the debt we've run up.  The virus was the pin that pricked the bubble.  We've got no savings.  The government is broke.  If unemployment cannot be dropped back down, all those out of work will create a debt crisis where banks and government holding mortgages, car loans, and corporate bonds failing, will create another financial crises.  We're no way out of the woods.

Weren't you the guy speculating as late as 2 days ago that this might not be worse than a "normal" flu? When did you change your mind about that?


Anyway that's right guys, it was China's fault (in part true insofar as that's where it got its start), it was the Democrats fault, hey it might even have been Obama's fault, why not Biden's, you can choose to blame whoever you want if it makes you feel better. But all the people who didn't think it was a problem and ignored all the warnings, like your Pres, well no, it wasn't their fault, of course not. How could it be. Maybe now it's the fault of all the people who are overreacting, sure, why not.

The USA is a modern nation with state of the art medical facilities, you had LOADS of warnings from people in the know, all very well documented, and you've had those warnings for a long time now well back into November when it all started, but you now have the highest number of cases in the world and you may still be 2-3 weeks from peak infection and your deaths are sadly increasing at alarming rates. But hey, if you want to self-delude about who is to blame, have at it, disk space is cheap.

Maryland has mandated "stay-at-home". Even the Governor of Florida who didn't think the contagion very serious a few short days ago is now issuing orders to stay at home, but I notice he started with southern Florida only. Maybe that's his way of saying it's not that serious yet, so presumably he's waiting for numbers in northern Florida to increase before doing anything there, which is exactly the wrong way to proceed, as everyone in the world knows by now, except him it seems.

[Alan Klein]

So let me see what this means. So a restaurant hires back their workers who they laid off because the restaurant closed.  The workers get 8 weeks of pay for no work paid by the government for loans that will be forgiven if the restaurant hires them back.  But meanwhile the restaurant stays closed because no one's  eating there. What do the workers do for their pay?  What happens after 8 weeks?  Will the government do another bill for another 8 weeks?  What I want to know, is why I'm spending my tax money and can't eat a meal out?  Maybe those workers can prepare my supper and send it over to my home so I can eat it there.  And the Republicans call the Democrats socialists.  Of course this is just a bogus giveaway bill so people vote for Trump in November.  He might lose my vote to Biden. At least Joe couldn't come up with something so stupid and perverse since he's napping all the time. 

Half those businesses are going to fail anyway as the economy tanks.  So instead of using that do nothing labor to go get real jobs where they can be productive and make things and give service, we going to pay them to do nothing in a company that serves no purpose.

Only in America.


Secy. Mnuchin Tells Small Businesses ‘Go Back And Hire Your Workers’
“Those loans will cover eight weeks of workers’ salary, plus additional money for overhead. If you let your workers go, you bring back your workers. For every worker you have, that portion of the loan is forgiven. So, I encourage all small business, that’s about half of the U.S. private payroll, (to) go back and hire your workers, because the government is paying you to do that.”

– Steven Mnuchin, U.S. Secretary of Treasury
https://www.oann.com/secy-mnuchin-tells-small-businesses-go-back-and-hire-your-workers/

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Haters gonna hate.

[Alan Klein]

You worry too much. That money simply isn't being printed and given away.While some of it is in grants, most of it is in th form of loans or purchases of bonds, including federal bonds, to try to keep some liquidity within the financial system. Over the next few years, the US inflation rate isn't expected to exceed about 2.3%. Which is okay. And your social security is inflation-adjusted.

First, my fixed income pension and savings is not adjusted for inflation.  EVery percent costs go up reduce its purchasing power with no recourse.  Interest rates suck and for old people, risky stock market investment are not the way to go.  Second, while SS does have COLA adjustments for inflation, the cost of a basket of goods they use is for the general public and not what elderly spend their money on which is higher.  The expected inflation rate of 2.3% is bogus.   The government is printing $6 trillion dollars on top of the $1 trillion deficit just for this year.  There's real talk there's going to be another rescue mackage in a  few months.  We're going to see inflation like we had (maybe you weren't alive then) in the 1970's when in a 12 year period from 1970 to 1982, inflation went up 55%.  So $100 in 1970 was worth only $45 in 1982. 

Even it was 2.3%, $100,000 retirement nest egg would only be worth $88,500 in purchasing power in just 5 years.  In the old days you use to be able to make it up with interest rates.  But today, they're effectively at 0. 

As far as it being issued as bonds, it will never be paid back as companies struggle along in a recession.  It will all turn into grants or more infamously known as bailouts.

[Alan Klein]

So let me see what this means. So a restaurant hires back their workers who they laid off because the restaurant closed.  The workers get 8 weeks of pay for no work paid by the government for loans that will be forgiven if the restaurant hires them back.  But meanwhile the restaurant stays closed because no one's  eating there. What do the workers do for their pay?  What happens after 8 weeks?  Will the government do another bill for another 8 weeks?  What I want to know, is why I'm spending my tax money and can't eat a meal out?  Maybe those workers can prepare my supper and send it over to my home so I can eat it there.  And the Republicans call the Democrats socialists.  Of course this is just a bogus giveaway bill so people vote for Trump in November.  He might lose my vote to Biden. At least Joe couldn't come up with something so stupid and perverse since he's napping all the time. 

Half those businesses are going to fail anyway as the economy tanks.  So instead of using that do nothing labor to go get real jobs where they can be productive and make things and give service, we going to pay them to do nothing in a company that serves no purpose.

Only in America.


Secy. Mnuchin Tells Small Businesses ‘Go Back And Hire Your Workers’
“Those loans will cover eight weeks of workers’ salary, plus additional money for overhead. If you let your workers go, you bring back your workers. For every worker you have, that portion of the loan is forgiven. So, I encourage all small business, that’s about half of the U.S. private payroll, (to) go back and hire your workers, because the government is paying you to do that.”

– Steven Mnuchin, U.S. Secretary of Treasury
https://www.oann.com/secy-mnuchin-tells-small-businesses-go-back-and-hire-your-workers/

Wait,  It's even more perverted than that.  So let's say there is a company doing some work.  So now the government, us the taxpayers, will pay the owner's cost of labor for 8 weeks.  Even if he does a little or a lot of work, he'll be taking all that salary he would have spent without government handouts and put it in his pocket.  After all, his labor will cost him nothing.  So for example, let's say a small company makes widgets.  He has 10 employees who earn $500 a week or $5000.  So the government will pay him $40,000 to pay his employees for the 8 weeks.  So that cost of labor goes to his bottom line giving him $40,000 in additional profit that he would not have gotten in normal times.  That $40,000 goes right into his pocket.  This is nuts!!!

[John Camp]

First, my fixed income pension and savings is not adjusted for inflation.  EVery percent costs go up reduce its purchasing power with no recourse.  Interest rates suck and for old people, risky stock market investment are not the way to go.  Second, while SS does have COLA adjustments for inflation, the cost of a basket of goods they use is for the general public and not what elderly spend their money on which is higher.  The expected inflation rate of 2.3% is bogus.   The government is printing $6 trillion dollars on top of the $1 trillion deficit just for this year.  There's real talk there's going to be another rescue mackage in a  few months.  We're going to see inflation like we had (maybe you weren't alive then) in the 1970's when in a 12 year period from 1970 to 1982, inflation went up 55%.  So $100 in 1970 was worth only $45 in 1982. 

Even it was 2.3%, $100,000 retirement nest egg would only be worth $88,500 in purchasing power in just 5 years.  In the old days you use to be able to make it up with interest rates.  But today, they're effectively at 0. 

As far as it being issued as bonds, it will never be paid back as companies struggle along in a recession.  It will all turn into grants or more infamously known as bailouts.

Alan, I'm older than you are. My first house mortgage was at something like 9%. I went through that whole period of high inflation, and here I am, happy as a clam, except, of course, that I might die from the Trump Virus. You worry too much. The stress is going to kill you, and then, probably, your death will be used to pump up virus numbers. You gotta relax, man.

[faberryman]

What I want to know, is why I'm spending my tax money and can't eat a meal out?

Certainly an important question.

[faberryman]

First, my fixed income pension and savings is not adjusted for inflation.  EVery percent costs go up reduce its purchasing power with no recourse.  Interest rates suck and for old people, risky stock market investment are not the way to go.  Second, while SS does have COLA adjustments for inflation, the cost of a basket of goods they use is for the general public and not what elderly spend their money on which is higher.  The expected inflation rate of 2.3% is bogus.   The government is printing $6 trillion dollars on top of the $1 trillion deficit just for this year.  There's real talk there's going to be another rescue mackage in a  few months.  We're going to see inflation like we had (maybe you weren't alive then) in the 1970's when in a 12 year period from 1970 to 1982, inflation went up 55%.  So $100 in 1970 was worth only $45 in 1982. 

Even it was 2.3%, $100,000 retirement nest egg would only be worth $88,500 in purchasing power in just 5 years.  In the old days you use to be able to make it up with interest rates.  But today, they're effectively at 0. 

As far as it being issued as bonds, it will never be paid back as companies struggle along in a recession.  It will all turn into grants or more infamously known as bailouts.

Alan, you are clearly being cheated.

[Alan Klein]

Alan, I'm older than you are. My first house mortgage was at something like 9%. I went through that whole period of high inflation, and here I am, happy as a clam, except, of course, that I might die from the Trump Virus. You worry too much. The stress is going to kill you, and then, probably, your death will be used to pump up virus numbers. You gotta relax, man.

Well, there's nothing we can do about it.  But think about it.  A small company can have up to 500 employees.  The government is going to pay their salaries?  So the owner, is going to keep those salaries for himels that he would have spent out of his sales.  500 people at $500 a week is $250,000 a week or $2 million dollars for the 8 week period.  So the owner puts $2 million in his pocket that he would never had earned in normal times.  How does that make any sense?  How is that fair to retired people like you and me?  Unless you own that business, of course.

[Alan Klein]

Alan, you are clearly being cheated.

Frank, you also are being cheated.  How much is your salary going to be worth in buying power when inflation devalues the currency?  The process of inflation (printing money) is theft.  Handouts to people who get it cost those least able to afford devaluation to pay for it. 

[Alan Klein]

Weren't you the guy speculating as late as 2 days ago that this might not be worse than a "normal" flu? When did you change your mind about that?


Anyway that's right guys, it was China's fault (in part true insofar as that's where it got its start), it was the Democrats fault, hey it might even have been Obama's fault, why not Biden's, you can choose to blame whoever you want if it makes you feel better. But all the people who didn't think it was a problem and ignored all the warnings, like your Pres, well no, it wasn't their fault, of course not. How could it be. Maybe now it's the fault of all the people who are overreacting, sure, why not.

The USA is a modern nation with state of the art medical facilities, you had LOADS of warnings from people in the know, all very well documented, and you've had those warnings for a long time now well back into November when it all started, but you now have the highest number of cases in the world and you may still be 2-3 weeks from peak infection and your deaths are sadly increasing at alarming rates. But hey, if you want to self-delude about who is to blame, have at it, disk space is cheap.

Maryland has mandated "stay-at-home". Even the Governor of Florida who didn't think the contagion very serious a few short days ago is now issuing orders to stay at home, but I notice he started with southern Florida only. Maybe that's his way of saying it's not that serious yet, so presumably he's waiting for numbers in northern Florida to increase before doing anything there, which is exactly the wrong way to proceed, as everyone in the world knows by now, except him it seems.

First off, it still may turn out less than the regular flu.  But it seems that won't be the case.  So conditions change and my opinion changes.  If I planned on betting on a horse and he breaks his leg, I'm not going to bet on him any longer.  Only a fool never changes his mind. 

[faberryman]

Frank, you also are being cheated.  How much is your salary going to be worth in buying power when inflation devalues the currency?  The process of inflation (printing money) is theft.  Handouts to people who get it cost those least able to afford devaluation to pay for it.

Perhaps that big tax cut generating trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see wasn't such a good idea after all.

[Alan Klein]

Here's an idea for you pro photographers during this time of no work.  Quickly hire 5 guys and have them make hundreds of large, framed beautiful photos for you.  The government will pay their salary.  You'll only have the cost of the material.  Then when they're done, lay them off.  Then go out and sell the photos at low prices that people will scoop up and make huge profits anyway due to no labor costs.  I'm sure you can think of dozens of businesses where this will work for you.  As an American taxpayer, I'm only too glad to help fund your business. 

Your welcome. 

[Alan Klein]

Perhaps that big tax cut generating trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see wasn't such a good idea after all.

The tax cut was great.  There should have been commensurate spending cuts. 

[faberryman]

The tax cut was great.  There should have been commensurate spending cuts.

Yep, Trump should have never signed it, but that's representative democracy at work.