COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS

[LesPalenik]

Well, someone did.  Sorry I accused you.  I've got my hands filled with you guys. 

The cooking thread is much safer.

[Alan Klein]

The cooking thread is much safer.

I'm not sure.  I had a triple bypass last year.

[Alan Klein]

My town just had three days with no (new) cases.  Best so far.  On the other hand I had to meet with a contractor who's quoting an emergency generator.  We had a four day power failure recently.  His mask kept slipping and he kept getting in my face.  And my neighbor's mask also kept slipping as he got close to me.  I took a shower when they left.  I'm trying to learn how to breathe out only.

[Alan Goldhammer]

The logistics seem impossible.  The  rules once the kids get to school are similarly draconian.  How do you run half classes? I see why teachers are complaining that it's an impossible task they're being asked to perform. MAybe the solution is the internet from home.  I don't know. Is anyone sending their kids to school?  How are they handling it?  Maybe there are other more practical solutions.

they are not impossible but just require education of students and teachers.  My daughter is an elementary school special ed teacher and she wants to get back into the classroom safely to help out this vulnerable group of kids.  Remote learning does NOT work for them and in class work is the only way.  There are no easy answers here or in other areas as well. 

[Alan Goldhammer]

Europe reopened their schools month ago and all evidence shows they have not become a vector for transmission.  There is no reason to keep schools closed here anymore. 

this is untrue.  Israel also opened their schools and saw a large jump in school and societal cases of COVID-19. 

[Alan Klein]

they are not impossible but just require education of students and teachers.  My daughter is an elementary school special ed teacher and she wants to get back into the classroom safely to help out this vulnerable group of kids.  Remote learning does NOT work for them and in class work is the only way.  There are no easy answers here or in other areas as well. 

The procedures seem great on paper.  We'll see soon just how practical they are.  Let's hope it works out.  We really need to get back to some form of normalcy.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

this is untrue.  Israel also opened their schools and saw a large jump in school and societal cases of COVID-19.

Correct, and schools in Europe didn't fully open months ago either. They gradually opened, shortly before summer holidays, so any outbreaks could be more easily managed. Now (last week) 1/3rd of the schools in my country have started opening up, with lots of (distancing and hygiene/masks) precautions and additional ventilation (not recirculation). Testing capacity should be able to quickly detect any outbreaks and contain them.

I also find it shortsighted by some to only focus on the lower casualty numbers with lower age, since children can be the ones that infect their surroundings (teachers, parents, grandparents, other family and neighbors). And also, some children do get very ill, and may (unlike most influenza cases) suffer the consequences for life.

[Alan Klein]

Experts change their minds again.  Travelers complain of dizziness.

CDC Quietly Drops Mandatory 14-Day Quarantine After Traveling
https://www.travelpulse.com/news/impacting-travel/cdc-quietly-drops-mandatory-14-day-quarantine-after-traveling.html

[JoeKitchen]

this is untrue.  Israel also opened their schools and saw a large jump in school and societal cases of COVID-19.

Israel is not in Europe btw. 

Yes, but it is believed that spread was in the faculty lounges, not classes.  But anyway, yes, what I wrote is true, Europe has opened classes to a much greater degree then we have.  No reason we should not follow suit while limited faculty interactions.  Give older faculty unpaid sabbaticals if they wish to take them, but we need to reopen.   

BTW, only  2.7% of C-19 deaths are of those under 45.  We are being hysterical over this.  Make acomindations for those over 55, but the rest have an much to worry about as normal life. 

[Alan Klein]

Experts in law enforcement apparently need retraining.

"At least 13 people died in a crush in Peru after trying to escape police who raided a nightclub violating coronavirus restrictions, police say."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-53880996

[Alan Klein]

Risk of getting it and risk of dying are very different stats Alan.  Most under 45 dont even know if they get it, and those under are 24 almost immune from dying. 

You statement of "children under 10 have died" is so statistically misleading it should be criminal.  What percentage of those under 10 who catch it die?  It is as low as being struck by lightning.  Stop with the scare tactics, seriously. 

The only reason schools that reopened and then closed is due to media sensationalizing everything to sell headlines, nothing more.  As of right now, there is no reward for politicans to not fully close, and that is the reason we are seeing closings. 

And then we have all of the negative consequences of closing, which causes death and which so many are happy to ignore, we will have to deal with.  After this is all said and done, I am sure the full lockdowns will be seen as a total disaster and something to never be repeated. 

If you break down the stats per state, the Red states are doing better then the Blue, which is why I think it is a must to establish a base in TX. 

Seasonal flu statistics for children.  We don't close schools. How does this compare to Covid deaths for children? See bottom.

"While relatively rare, some children die from flu each year. Since 2004-2005, flu-related deaths in children reported to CDC during regular flu seasons have ranged from 37 to 187 deaths."
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/highrisk/children.htm#:~:text=While%20relatively%20rare%2C%20some%20children,%2C%202009%20to%20September%2C%202010.


Covid deaths and children 90 deaths
Appendix Table 2C: Summary of Child Mortality Data from 5/21 – 8/13*
https://downloads.aap.org/AAP/PDF/AAP%20and%20CHA%20-%20Children%20and%20COVID-19%20State%20Data%20Report%208.13.20%20FINAL%20v2.pdf

[Alan Klein]

Israel is not in Europe btw. 

Yes, but it is believed that spread was in the faculty lounges, not classes.  But anyway, yes, what I wrote is true, Europe has opened classes to a much greater degree then we have.  No reason we should not follow suit while limited faculty interactions.  Give older faculty unpaid sabbaticals if they wish to take them, but we need to reopen.   

BTW, only  2.7% of C-19 deaths are of those under 45.  We are being hysterical over this.  Make acomindations for those over 55, but the rest have an much to worry about as normal life. 

Parent are losing their parental rights due to Covid in more than when they should go to school.

Parents have lost control of their children's education
"Taking part in your child's education should be mandatory not illegal"[/i]
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/aug/22/parents-have-lost-control-of-their-childrens-educa/

[LesPalenik]

I know a young couple who run a small service business dealing with other people, and they worry that their young daughter could bring from the school home the virus and not only infect them, but also ruining their business. Tough choices, indeed!

[Alan Klein]

They're lucky they still have a business.  The NY government is begging businesses to come back and get their business started again before NYC closes up shop forever. 

[Paulo Bizarro]

Europe reopened their schools month ago and all evidence shows they have not become a vector for transmission.  There is no reason to keep schools closed here anymore. 

Not to mention, child abuse is almost certainly going up, and schools are the number one source, by far, of recognizing and reporting.  Mental health issues are also going up due to this lockdown along with immune systems not getting the required exposure to germs to fully develop.

In Portugal, schools have reopened in June but not for all students, only those taking exams to enter University. Also schools for 3 - 6 years old. But the opening was done with all possible cares in terms of avoiding infection spreading. with such care, last week studies have shown  that only 1% of new cases have come from schools.

On the other hand, children are prone to get infected and not show symptoms. Unfortunately, last week a 4 month old baby died of Covid.

Wearing a mask and obeying the 3Cs is hardly difficult.

[jeremyrh]

Israel is not in Europe btw. 

But they do compete in the Eurovision Song Contest :-)

Yes, but it is believed that spread was in the faculty lounges, not classes.  But anyway, yes, what I wrote is true, Europe has opened classes to a much greater degree then we have.  No reason we should not follow suit while limited faculty interactions.

Schools exist in a context of community transmission, so what is appropriate for one country may not be appropriate for another

Give older faculty unpaid sabbaticals if they wish to take them, but we need to reopen.

BTW, only  2.7% of C-19 deaths are of those under 45.  We are being hysterical over this.  Make acomindations for those over 55, but the rest have an much to worry about as normal life.

Yeah, get those old folks outa sight - give them more time to bs on internet forums.   

[kers]

We are in a new stage where nations/politicians are so desperate to find treatments and a vaccin; they even apply a not well tested vaccin/treatment to bring 'good news'.
As experts say: it is not difficult to make a vaccin; it is difficult and takes a long time to proof it is safe.
A bad vaccin may be worse than the virus, imagine.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53884710
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53621708

[Robert Roaldi]

We are in a new stage where nations/politicians are so desperate to find treatments and a vaccin; they even apply a not well tested vaccin/treatment to bring 'good news'.
As experts say: it is not difficult to make a vaccin; it is difficult and takes a long time to proof it is safe.
A bad vaccin may be worse than the virus, imagine.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53884710
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53621708

We can only hope that the sick people who will be used as test subjects get lucky.

[PeterAit]

Parent are losing their parental rights due to Covid in more than when they should go to school.

Parents have lost control of their children's education
"Taking part in your child's education should be mandatory not illegal"[/i]
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/aug/22/parents-have-lost-control-of-their-childrens-educa/

Washington Times?! Please be serious. One of the worst "news" outlets in the country. It has long been owned by the Unification Church, AKA the Moonies. Long sordid record of shoddy reporting, sensationalism, and non-correction of errors.

[Alan Klein]

Washington Times?! Please be serious. One of the worst "news" outlets in the country. It has long been owned by the Unification Church, AKA the Moonies. Long sordid record of shoddy reporting, sensationalism, and non-correction of errors.

You mean like the Washington Post owned by Jeff Bezos?