COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS

[Alan Klein]

I'm on my wife's medical plan. We both have a $100 deductible after which all drugs are paid for. My wife has Parkinson's and her drugs would be about $400 a month. I don't even break my $100 deductible.

I'm sorry your wife has Parkinson's.  At least you have a good medical plan.

[Alan Klein]

Well when you have your leaders go against the medical community...I can see why people just give up and say screw it...I'll just party. When you have a consistent message throughout all levels of government and the medical community...that message goes a long way.

I watched a documentary on TV about the Spanish Flu epidemic of the early 1900's in the USA.  They fined people for not wearing a mask.  One cop shot someone who refused to put it on. Even with tough enforcement, people then too were very independent.

[Alan Klein]

Bull.  You think the hordes of youngsters partying  hardy On campus would listen to a thing Trump had to say? 

Now we know what you did in college. 

[Alan Klein]

Trump has lost anything he says as being taken seriously long time ago. Once a liar...always a liar and the general population can see this. Maybe the new president will have a better go at it.

We're broke no matter who's in charge.  It won't matter. 

[Alan Klein]

A better description would be very decent and empathetic.

Especially when Biden gets close to women and sniffs their hair.  A real gentleman. 

[Alan Klein]

I take no special care with the mail.  Transfer of virus from paper products is not anything I worry about.  I also don't take any precautions with groceries either.

Chris is going to be upset with you.

[jeremyrh]

I read an account of a building in S Korea where on a particular floor, there were two groups of people working in open plan areas.  Someone in one group got CV19 and then a large number of people in that group got it. Nobody in the other group got it, even though they were using the same elevators etc, pressing buttons, touching stuff.  Only one (half remembered) anecdote, but it suggests that being in a confined space with someone is more dangerous than touching stuff they touched.

[Paulo Bizarro]

I read an account of a building in S Korea where on a particular floor, there were two groups of people working in open plan areas.  Someone in one group got CV19 and then a large number of people in that group got it. Nobody in the other group got it, even though they were using the same elevators etc, pressing buttons, touching stuff.  Only one (half remembered) anecdote, but it suggests that being in a confined space with someone is more dangerous than touching stuff they touched.

For months, the lead Portuguese virologist has passed along the message:

Avoid 3 C's and wear a mask.

3 C's: close contact, confined spaces, crowded spaces.

[Robert Roaldi]

  New Zealand just shut down the country because 3 or 4 people in a family got sick.  Seems medically sound.  But the whole country?  How are people going to eat if they're not producing?

They did ok up till now, so why would this re-occurrence be any worse. You've been predicting the end of civilization for a while now but it's not happening, is it? People do what they always do, they adapt.

As for the different school re-opening plans, until best practices emerge, people try different things. I don't understand why you choose to interpret this as experts trying to confuse you. It is nothing of the kind. Besides, after repeating that point of view 1000 times, it's time to move on to something new I'd say.

Your constant refrain about experts confusing you doesn't hold water. They've been consistent from day one, maintain distance, wash/disinfect, and more recently wear masks when forced to be closer to others. All the other speculations about this and that were just that, part of of the ongoing conversation, not policy, not confusing instructions. Your best bet is not to read those, they seem to alarm you unnecessarily.

[Alan Klein]

They did ok up till now, so why would this re-occurrence be any worse. You've been predicting the end of civilization for a while now but it's not happening, is it? People do what they always do, they adapt.

As for the different school re-opening plans, until best practices emerge, people try different things. I don't understand why you choose to interpret this as experts trying to confuse you. It is nothing of the kind. Besides, after repeating that point of view 1000 times, it's time to move on to something new I'd say.

Your constant refrain about experts confusing you doesn't hold water. They've been consistent from day one, maintain distance, wash/disinfect, and more recently wear masks when forced to be closer to others. All the other speculations about this and that were just that, part of of the ongoing conversation, not policy, not confusing instructions. Your best bet is not to read those, they seem to alarm you unnecessarily.

Apparently, even though I've said things 1000 times, you don't accurately remember what I said.  I've been the one preaching that it's great that every country and every American state is doing it differently.  That not having a single policy is best as we'll see who's is best.  There.  Now I've said it 1001 times.  Maybe now you're remember what I actually said.

Secondly, while experts are generally consistent about what health measures protect most, they are not in consensus as to what process and speed should be taken to open up the economy, business, transportation, schools,sports, etc.  We're all poking around in the the dark when it comes to that.

[jeremyrh]

New Zealand just shut down the country because 3 or 4 people in a family got sick. 

They didn't though, did they.

[faberryman]

Secondly, while experts are generally consistent about what health measures protect most, they are not in consensus as to what process and speed should be taken to open up the economy, business, transportation, schools,sports, etc.  We're all poking around in the the dark when it comes to that.

But doesn't that confuse the average layman about what to think and what actions to take?  The mayor says wear a mask and the governor says don't wear a mask. You said that people are confused about what to do with the mail, wouldn't they be confused about whether or not to wear a mask? And then when the Republicans say that wearing a mask is making a political statement for Biden and against Trump, things get even more confusing. If everybody trying something different is good for masks, maybe we should tell people they should try different things with the mail and see what works out best. And hand washing, and closed spaces, and close contact, and all the rest. Probably best to go random on it. Don't give people advice. Just give them a list of a dozen different alternatives and let them pick the one they want. Then, when it is all over, we count up the dead and see who wins.

[jeremyrh]

But doesn't that confuse the average layman about what to think and what actions to take?  The mayor says wear a mask and the governor says don't wear a mask.

Well that's chump change - more important, the president says drink bleach, the CDC says don't drink bleach. That sort of confusion costs lives!

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/aug/19/facebook-funnelling-readers-towards-covid-misinformation-study

[Alan Klein]

But doesn't that confuse the average layman about what to think and what actions to take?  The mayor says wear a mask and the governor says don't wear a mask. You said that people are confused about what to do with the mail, wouldn't they be confused about whether or not to wear a mask? And then when the Republicans say that wearing a mask is making a political statement against for Biden and against Trump, things get even more confusing.

We're trying to balance two opposing issues.  The medical recommendations are sound for the most part. They will keep, us healthier and reduce deaths.  However, the procedures of isolation and maintaining distances (not masks necessarily) are in conflict with maintaining a vibrant and healthy economy.  We're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Trying to thread the needle and find a proper balance is creating huge problems as we fumble around in the dark.  It's not an either or situation although many people try to make it one.  There are no easy solutions.

[faberryman]

We're trying to balance two opposing issues.  The medical recommendations are sound for the most part. They will keep, us healthier and reduce deaths.

Which "medical recommendations" do you think are sound for the most part? Which are not sound? Which are still up in the air?

[Alan Klein]

I just bought a couple of cotton face masks that have internal slots for filters.  Which filter types are the best?
Mask https://www.walmart.com/ip/Reusable-Washable-Cotton-Black-Face-Mask-with-Filter-Pocket-and-Nose-Wire/998104044?comm-msg-vehicle=EMAIL&comm-msg-id=8a6b9df5-f54c-406d-8d4d-c056c068acda

[Alan Klein]

Which "medical recommendations" do you think are sound for the most part? Which are not sound? Which are still up in the air?

You're wasting our time with a strawman argument.  Your question has nothing to do with my post.  Please address my point if you wish.

[faberryman]

I just bought a couple of cotton face masks that have internal slots for filters.  Which filter types are the best?
Mask https://www.walmart.com/ip/Reusable-Washable-Cotton-Black-Face-Mask-with-Filter-Pocket-and-Nose-Wire/998104044?comm-msg-vehicle=EMAIL&comm-msg-id=8a6b9df5-f54c-406d-8d4d-c056c068acda

Views on which filter is the best differ. Just pick one and become part of life's great experiment.

By the way, I don't think Trump is really sold on masks anyway, so could just not wear a mask. If you don't wear a mask, you don't really need to worry about filters.

[Alan Klein]

Views on which filter is the best differ. Just pick one and become part of life's great experiment.

By the way, I don't think Trump is really sold on masks anyway, so could just not wear a mask. If you don't wear a mask, you don't really need to worry about filters.

Although I've repeated it 1000 times, I've been wearing masks since this thing started.  In fact, I bought KN-95 masks direct from China and paid extra for them including expedited shipping.   I bought surgical masks directly from them as well.

I've decided to try a cotton mask as they appear to have improved the design and "experts" claim they're almost as good.  Maybe someone else can recommend a type of filter that's best.

[faberryman]

I've decided to try a cotton mask as they appear to have improved the design and "experts" claim they're almost as good.  Maybe someone else can recommend a type of filter that's best.

Experts? Almost as good? Perhaps you might want to rethink this.