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Author Topic: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS  (Read 87153 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2120 on: August 12, 2020, 06:11:53 pm »

Yes if you are out of control...it might be just wasting time. Just do body counts...those are somewhat accurate...at least in the ballpark.
We have low numbers here in New Jersey and have contract tracing.  I'll have to check to see how effective it is. Knowing how things usually work here, I don't have much faith it's helping much.

BobShaw

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2121 on: August 12, 2020, 09:46:31 pm »

New Zealand has had its first cases in 100 days. They don't know where it came from but suspect that it came in a freight of frozen meat from the US. The question is now whether the virus can survive freezing and it looks like it can.

My thoughts are that if you can freeze an embryo and have it viable why can't you freeze a virus and have it survive.
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Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2122 on: August 12, 2020, 11:59:57 pm »

New Zealand has had its first cases in 100 days. They don't know where it came from but suspect that it came in a freight of frozen meat from the US. The question is now whether the virus can survive freezing and it looks like it can.

My thoughts are that if you can freeze an embryo and have it viable why can't you freeze a virus and have it survive.
What a pleasant thought.  Just think. I might have some Covid 19 sitting frozen and dormant in my freezer in my Hagen Daz ice cream just waiting for me to take a lick.  Reminds me of the movie The Thing where the out-of-space alien frozen in the Arctic gets defrosted and gobbles up all the people.

Manoli

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2123 on: August 13, 2020, 03:24:18 am »

Suspicion that the return of coronavirus to New Zealand is linked to imported frozen food packaging follows similar incidents reported in China this week. China temporarily blocked imports of Norwegian salmon after its sale in a Beijing market was linked to an outbreak in June.

The authorities in the eastern city of Yantai said on Tuesday that coronavirus had been detected on the packaging of imported frozen seafood from Ecuador. Wu Zunyou, chief epidemiologist of China’s Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, has said the virus can survive on the surface of frozen food for up to three months...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-new-zealand-cases-linked-to-cold-storage-centre

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faberryman

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2124 on: August 13, 2020, 08:58:26 am »

Suspicion that the return of coronavirus to New Zealand is linked to imported frozen food packaging follows similar incidents reported in China this week. China temporarily blocked imports of Norwegian salmon after its sale in a Beijing market was linked to an outbreak in June.

The authorities in the eastern city of Yantai said on Tuesday that coronavirus had been detected on the packaging of imported frozen seafood from Ecuador. Wu Zunyou, chief epidemiologist of China’s Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, has said the virus can survive on the surface of frozen food for up to three months...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-new-zealand-cases-linked-to-cold-storage-centre

There is no way the US could do this. We've got no idea where the virus is coming from.  It is just out there. Walking down the street you're just weaving and bobbing and praying it doesn't get you.
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Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2125 on: August 13, 2020, 09:07:22 am »

Well now they're telling us not to go to the dentist something I need to do and have been doing.  How do you bob and weave in a dentist's office?
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/going-to-the-dentist-experts-areas-low-covid19-transmission-144548393.html

faberryman

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2126 on: August 13, 2020, 09:16:57 am »

Well now they're telling us not to go to the dentist something I need to do and have been doing.  How do you bob and weave in a dentist's office?
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/going-to-the-dentist-experts-areas-low-covid19-transmission-144548393.html

The WHO advises putting off routine preventative care.  Are you driving to NYC and braving the elevators to have your teeth cleaned?
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Manoli

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2127 on: August 13, 2020, 11:07:29 am »

There is no way the US could do this. We've got no idea where the virus is coming from.  It is just out there. Walking down the street you're just weaving and bobbing and praying it doesn't get you.

The Times article referred to the ongoing situation in New Zealand, not the USA. Good guest piece in The Economist. Free to read, though you may need to register. Link title is self explanatory.

https://www.economist.com/by-invitation/2020/08/10/nicholas-christakis-on-fighting-covid-19-by-truly-understanding-the-virus
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hogloff

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2128 on: August 13, 2020, 11:11:43 am »

Well now they're telling us not to go to the dentist something I need to do and have been doing.  How do you bob and weave in a dentist's office?
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/going-to-the-dentist-experts-areas-low-covid19-transmission-144548393.html

By not going if it's just for routine work like cleaning.
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Chris Kern

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2129 on: August 13, 2020, 11:35:35 am »

Intriguing report in the New York Times today about how medical teams at the Fort Apache Amerindian reservation in Arizona are using contact tracing not simply to alert individuals who are at risk of infection, but also to discover others who are already infected but are unaware of it, and may require medical intervention to minimize the damage to their lungs.

Quote
The coronavirus is raging through the White Mountain Apache tribe. Spread across a large reservation in eastern Arizona, the Apaches have been infected at more than 10 times the rate of people in the state as a whole.

Yet their death rate from Covid-19 is far lower, just 1.3 percent, as compared with 2.1 percent in Arizona. Epidemiologists have a hopeful theory about what led to this startling result: Intensive contact tracing on the reservation likely enabled teams that included doctors to find and treat gravely ill people before it was too late to save them.

A crucial tool has been a simple, inexpensive medical device: an oximeter that, clipped to a finger, detected dangerously low blood oxygen levels in people who often didn’t even realize they were seriously ill. . . .

The coronavirus can impair the lungs in quiet, almost unnoticeable ways. People may not be gasping for breath, one of the classic signs of low oxygen levels, but the contact tracers often found their levels were perilously low. Without supplemental oxygen, these people risked permanent organ damage and death.

That led to a new strategy, Dr. Close said: “Contact tracing is a moderate end in itself, but the primary objective is to identify the high-risk individual” — those in grave danger from lack of oxygen. The team visits patients risking serious illness every day, and the moment their blood oxygen levels drop, they are taken to the hospital for oxygen therapy.

At the same time, the teams made another discovery. In the homes of coronavirus patients, the contact tracers noticed family members who did not look healthy. Often the signs were subtle, but the doctors, who know so many of the residents, recognized changes in complexion or energy levels.

The doctors asked family members who looked ill to take a brief walk around the room, or into the yard and back, with an oxygen monitor clipped to their fingers. Over and over, they saw the same thing — people who had oxygen levels so low they should be gasping for air. Yet they showed none of the expected symptoms.

The initial findings of the Fort Apache team have been reported in the New England Journal of Medicine (PDF).

Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2130 on: August 13, 2020, 11:49:56 am »

The Times article referred to the ongoing situation in New Zealand, not the USA. Good guest piece in The Economist. Free to read, though you may need to register. Link title is self explanatory.

https://www.economist.com/by-invitation/2020/08/10/nicholas-christakis-on-fighting-covid-19-by-truly-understanding-the-virus
Two takeaways from the article:
1.  "Since we cannot rely on symptoms to identify cases, testing needs to be widespread and the results returned rapidly if not immediately."

Not one country is testing that much.  In the US, we've tested about 60 million out of a population of 330 million.  Most countries have a lower rate.  Plus, if they tested you yesterday, and you didn't have it, that doesn;t mean you won;t get it tomorrow.  How many times are they suppose to test each individual and ho often?

2. "For covid-19, at least 40% of the world’s 7.6bn people will probably become infected, with millions of deaths. "

The idea that somehow we'll skirt the infection by doing this or that is not in the cards.  The article is interesting.  But other than suggesting masks and the other recommendations we hear all the time, there's really not much hope things are going to change much unless there's an effective vaccine.

Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2131 on: August 13, 2020, 11:53:11 am »

By not going if it's just for routine work like cleaning.
The point is the danger is higher at a dentist regardless of the reason you go.  So when I go to fix a cavity I have or install a crown I need, it's riskier than going to a heart specialist. 

Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2132 on: August 13, 2020, 11:57:59 am »

Intriguing report in the New York Times today about how medical teams at the Fort Apache Amerindian reservation in Arizona are using contact tracing not simply to alert individuals who are at risk of infection, but also to discover others who are already infected but are unaware of it, and may require medical intervention to minimize the damage to their lungs.

The initial findings of the Fort Apache team have been reported in the New England Journal of Medicine (PDF).
Did the article mention the age group percentages in the reservation?  If it's more youthful, that may account for low death rates even if though the overall infection rate is high.

I bought a O2 finger device a few months ago.  You reminded me I ought to use  it. 

hogloff

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2133 on: August 13, 2020, 12:16:47 pm »

The point is the danger is higher at a dentist regardless of the reason you go.  So when I go to fix a cavity I have or install a crown I need, it's riskier than going to a heart specialist.

You are at risk just sitting at home and getting your food delivered to you. It's all about mitigating your risks. Only you can decide if getting your teeth fixed outweighs the risk of getting Covid.

I personally skipped my yearly cleaning back in July...can wait until Covid is under control. I've also skipped going out to restaurants as the risk / reward is to high for my likings.
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Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2134 on: August 13, 2020, 12:19:07 pm »

You are at risk just sitting at home and getting your food delivered to you. It's all about mitigating your risks. Only you can decide if getting your teeth fixed outweighs the risk of getting Covid.

I personally skipped my yearly cleaning back in July...can wait until Covid is under control. I've also skipped going out to restaurants as the risk / reward is to high for my likings.
I can't go out to restaurants until I get my teeth fixed.  :)

hogloff

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2135 on: August 13, 2020, 12:58:43 pm »

I can't go out to restaurants until I get my teeth fixed.  :)

And yet you still order in pizza.
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faberryman

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2136 on: August 14, 2020, 06:35:51 am »

The point is the danger is higher at a dentist regardless of the reason you go.  So when I go to fix a cavity I have or install a crown I need, it's riskier than going to a heart specialist.

Probably depends on who the heart specialist has been hanging around with.
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Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2137 on: August 14, 2020, 10:28:43 am »

Probably depends on who the heart specialist has been hanging around with.
My next "visit" in a week with my heart doctor will be on the phone.  Seems kinda silly, doesn't it?

faberryman

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2138 on: August 14, 2020, 10:42:58 am »

My next "visit" in a week with my heart doctor will be on the phone.  Seems kinda silly, doesn't it?

Did you get blood work done so you can discuss that? If not, he will probably advise you on your diet and exercise. Cardiologist are big on diet and exercise. I suspect he will tell you to lay off the steaks and lamb chops, and to get more exercise. Don't tell him about the Hagen Das in the freezer. Surely you know that sitting around the house isn't helpful to heart health. It is also a recipe for needing a psychiatrist, or so I've read.  The real problem with cardiologists is that after a visit you feel like you have just been chastised by your mother for sneaking cookies out of the cookie jar. Of course, a psychiatrist is just the ticket to help you work that out.
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Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2139 on: August 14, 2020, 10:51:37 am »

Did you get blood work done so you can discuss that? If not, he will probably advise you on your diet and exercise. Cardiologist are big on diet and exercise. I suspect he will tell you to lay off the steaks and lamb chops, and to get more exercise. Don't tell him about the Hagen Das in the freezer. Surely you know that sitting around the house isn't helpful to heart health. It is also a recipe for needing a psychiatrist, or so I've read.  The real problem with cardiologists is that after a visit you feel like you have just been chastised by your mother for sneaking cookies out of the cookie jar. Of course, a psychiatrist is just the ticket to help you work that out.
My cardiologist doesn't care how much steak I eat as long as I don't eat carbs. Actually since the virus, I've laid off ice cream because I won't go the the shop to buy it.  My weight's been static but not enough exercise.  Does carrying my photo backpack and tripod count for anything? Posting on forums has eliminated boredom and allows me to direct my anger outwards. No shrink for me.  :)
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