COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS

[elliot_n]

Received an email pointing to a re-emerging scandal, one that started way back in 2009/11.  i’ve currently no way of judging on the merits, truthfulness (or lack thereof) but ‘prima facie’ the doctor at the centre of this, Dr Judy Mikovits, has plenty to say on immunology. You be the judge.

A google search returned plenty, all dated within the past few days but strangely not one US newspaper or news source. The book is already #1 on Amazon (link below) and there is a YouTube interview (25 minutes duration) posted 5 days ago. I’ve watched it, I recommend others do too. Suggest reading the comments on Amazon and the 'Look Inside' feature on the book.

Not new, almost certainly relevant to Covid-19. Inevitably, also political - to a degree. It smacks of big pharma cover-up, lambasts Fauci and his cronies and details how she was denied legal representation by the Justice Department and the FBI. Also shows a c-span clip of her being arrested at home. Enough armed personnel to storm a hijacked airliner.

• https://youtu.be/IsuCa6V7prg
• https://youtu.be/wW7lclOmgzE

• https://www.amazon.com/Plague-Corruption-Restoring-Promise-Science-ebook/dp/B07S5H6T4Q
• https://scientists4wiredtech.com/dr-judy-mikovits-primer/

Edit:
This morning the video has been removed.
It was a straight-up one on one interview.
One thing for sure - this reeks of malfaisance and suppression.

Why are you posting this?

[elliot_n]

Wrong thread. Please stop posting dangerous conspiracy theory garbage. This woman is a deranged anti-vaxxer.

[LesPalenik]

Received an email pointing to a re-emerging scandal, one that started way back in 2009/11.  i’ve currently no way of judging on the merits, truthfulness (or lack thereof) but ‘prima facie’ the doctor at the centre of this, Dr Judy Mikovits, has plenty to say on immunology. You be the judge.

A google search returned plenty, all dated within the past few days but strangely not one US newspaper or news source. The book is already #1 on Amazon (link below) and there is a YouTube interview (25 minutes duration) posted 5 days ago. I’ve watched it, I recommend others do too. Suggest reading the comments on Amazon and the 'Look Inside' feature on the book.

Not new, almost certainly relevant to Covid-19. Inevitably, also political - to a degree. It smacks of big pharma cover-up, lambasts Fauci and his cronies and details how she was denied legal representation by the Justice Department and the FBI. Also shows a c-span clip of her being arrested at home. Enough armed personnel to storm a hijacked airliner.

• https://youtu.be/IsuCa6V7prg
• https://youtu.be/wW7lclOmgzE

• https://www.amazon.com/Plague-Corruption-Restoring-Promise-Science-ebook/dp/B07S5H6T4Q
• https://scientists4wiredtech.com/dr-judy-mikovits-primer/

I watched the interview on vimeo and found it interesting. She is well spoken, quotes some commonsense and interesting facts. I don't have enough information to confirm or disprove her points but have a feeling that we'll hear more about it. The video segment of heavily armed personnel storming her house doesn't inspire much confidence about US justice.

[Alan Goldhammer]

As per yesterday. This is froma Portuguese newspaper that has daily updates on several plots, including 7 days average. All countries reported are falling down, except the USA - curve on the top. Seems they are in for a long plateau... with the number of deaths keeping the same pace.

Here is a preprint that I am just reading from a couple of Lisbon researchers:  https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20088856v1  "Portugal has been portrayed as a relatively successful case in the control of the COVID-19's March 2020 outbreak in Europe due to the timely confinement measures taken. "  Go to the abstract to read more.

[LesPalenik]

Les,

None of us do, but I'm hoping that either a medic, John Camp or a poster who sometimes 'maintains radio silence' will give us some context. The book seems to be more factual and some of her points tie in with recent commentary fm Nobel Prize winner Luc Montagnier.

The interview with Luc Montagnier is interesting, shocking and seemingly very credible, supported by the scientific evidence from molecular bio-technology with introduced foreign sequences. Very detailed and illuminating discussion of the manipulated virus. Montagnier also says that USA not only knows about the virus manipulation, but also that funded part of this research. The interview is in French language with English subtitles, and it is 37 minutes long. Well worth watching.

Summary: The Covid-19 has been artificially manufactured in laboratory in Wuhan. There are some HIV sequences introduced into this virus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=durcHyxpFT4

[Manoli]

Leaving aside the parts that coincide with Montagnier's input, the rest does seem 'dubious'.

Snopes' report:

Therefore, Mikovits’ speculative claims linking her research to vaccine science, drawing the ire of “Big Pharma” and the “Deep State”, and her subsequent arrest are not rooted in science or reality.

[LesPalenik]

Leaving aside the parts that coincide with Montagnier's input, the rest does seem 'dubious'.

Snopes' report:

Therefore, Mikovits’ speculative claims linking her research to vaccine science, drawing the ire of “Big Pharma” and the “Deep State”, and her subsequent arrest are not rooted in science or reality.

Out of these two interviews, Luc Montagnier's video is the one to watch. Much more credible, supported by science.

[Alan Goldhammer]

Les,

None of us do, but I'm hoping that either a medic, John Camp or a poster who sometimes 'maintains radio silence' will give us some context. The book seems to be more factual and some of her points tie in with recent commentary fm Nobel Prize winner Luc Montagnier.

I doubt that it is intentionally manipulated and from what I've read that's the general consensus of most experts.  The other clip that is referred to is clear propaganda but that's the nature of the Internet these days.  You need to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff and a lot of people are not willing to do the research to make that decision.  It is possible that there was an escape from containment in the Wuhan lab but my hunch is these was just another case of zoonotic transmission.  We see Ebola outbreaks in Africa with frequency and nobody is launching any conspiracy stories about this.  The reason that we have the pandemic is that this SARS virus unlike the previous two has a longer latency time in human hosts, allowing it to spread further.  Both MERS and SARS #1 had short infection periods and relatively high mortality which can lead to shorter periods of outbreak if quarantines are undertaken.

Here is what I wrote yesterday on this point somewhere else, "Whether there was a containment escape from the Wuhan lab is irrelevant.  Stuff happens all the time.  Look at the Sverdlovsk anthrax release which did kill a fair number of Russians.  The US got lucky with the Reston outbreak that killed monkeys and was documented in Richard Preston’s “the Hot Zone.”  Fortunately, the virus was specific to monkeys.  I had a huge lab accident when a flask full of log growth B. pertussis (whooping cough) shattered and spilled all over me; yes this ended innocuous but shows what can happen.  Lots of examples to cite here."

Folks should read Preston's book.  Reston is about 20 miles from where I live and I remember when it happened.  Our neighborhood was concerned when NIH wanted to build a special containment building to work on viral and bacterial pathogens.  I worked with NIH on a risk assessment set of experiments that would help our citizen's association better understand the nature of the lab and what were real concerns.  I wasn't worried as much about the lab containment but more how research animals would be handled and disposed of.

[LesPalenik]

Luc Montagnier is no conspiracy theorist, he is a Nobel Prize winner for research on HIV virus.
His research was based on the fact that Covid-19 virus has elements of HIV and Malaria germs. He says that "this is not possible in a naturally occurring virus without an intervention by external agency".

This is not just his opinion, but an undeniable scientific fact.

[armand]

If a virus has been manipulated is beyond my paygrade, I don't have the knowledge (or even the interest for that matter) to figure this out. I suspect that's the case for a vast majority of people here or elsewhere, so be a little careful of what a "fact" is.

I don't know if that guy is truthful or not, but always keep in mind that people are just people, regardless of their scientific backgrounds, and they are prone to bias or hidden agendas.

These being said, if what you quoted is true I already have a big question mark:

Covid-19 virus has elements of HIV and Malaria germs

Malaria is a eukaryote, quite different than a virus, I have serious doubts it would play any advantage into an RNA virus (it that is even possible).

Either way, my rule of thumb for these scenarios is to go with a consensus of reputable scientists vs one that has a conspiracy theory.


PS. one more thing, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

[elliot_n]

I doubt that it is intentionally manipulated and from what I've read that's the general consensus of most experts.

Dr Chris Martenson at Peak Prosperity makes a strong case that the virus could have been a product of the US-funded research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

Dr Fauci, who is on record as supporting this research, is very much in Martenson's targets.

According to Martenson, this research, in which scientists manipulate a virus and then test its infectivity and pathogenicity in live animals (ferrets), is just too dangerous to justify any knowledge that might possibly be gleaned from it.

It's a long video (40 mins), but worth a watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6y8dlhoMpo

(I know, I've been accusing others of posting conspiracy theories, and some might regard this as the same. But Martenson seems credible to me, whereas that Plandemic film seems bogus. If Martenson is right, it would explain why Trump and Pompeo are being tight-lipped about the 'enormous evidence' they have re. the virus emerging from a lab — it's their lab!)

[Paulo Bizarro]

Here is a preprint that I am just reading from a couple of Lisbon researchers:  https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20088856v1  "Portugal has been portrayed as a relatively successful case in the control of the COVID-19's March 2020 outbreak in Europe due to the timely confinement measures taken. "  Go to the abstract to read more.

Thanks for that. I am not very optimistic, if one looks at number of cases per 100,000 people, we are not that well actually. In the last couple of days, the number of new cases has risen to 480 and 533. The previous days it had been much lower. One explanation could be that we are now testing more suspected cases. We have around 220,000 active cases (positives - deaths - recovered).

In terms of tests, we one of the countries testing more per capita, so that is good.

Getting out of confinement is going to be stepwise, I anticipate Rt to go up, but differently in different regions. In this regard, there is a very good Rt analysis by region in Portugal:

https://nexp.pt/ddr/Rt.html?fbclid=IwAR03_veoxx7uwBRJiy8VdCU8bDDWasSyP_v2gMCyjtIJKzbeeXC7KJ2Uv88

[armand]

Dr Chris Martenson at Peak Prosperity makes a strong case that the virus could have been a product of the US-funded research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

Dr Fauci, who is on record as supporting this research, is very much in Martenson's targets.

According to Martenson, this research, in which scientists manipulate a virus and then test its infectivity and pathogenicity in live animals (ferrets), is just too dangerous to justify any knowledge that might possibly be gleaned from it.

It's a long video (40 mins), but worth a watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6y8dlhoMpo

(I know, I've been accusing others of posting conspiracy theories, and some might regard this as the same. But Martenson seems credible to me, whereas that Plandemic film seems bogus. If Martenson is right, it would explain why Trump and Pompeo are being tight-lipped about the 'enormous evidence' they have re. the virus emerging from a lab — it's their lab!)

This doesn't make sense to me. Why would US sponsor virus research in China, something close to military grade if I read between the lines correctly? I'm sure US does it, but not where the info is at the fingertips of the Chinese.

[Alan Goldhammer]

Luc Montagnier is no conspiracy theorist, he is a Nobel Prize winner for research on HIV virus.
His research was based on the fact that Covid-19 virus has elements of HIV and Malaria germs. He says that "this is not possible in a naturally occurring virus without an intervention by external agency".

This is not just his opinion, but an undeniable scientific fact.

If that is true one would see many more scientists taking that position.  There was a meme circulating about a week ago about a Japanese Nobel Laureate saying the same thing.  Both he and his institution said it was false.  Dr. Montagnier is celebrated for his work on HIV but that alone does not confer him with any special powers.  Linus Pauling in his later years extolled the use of high doses of Vitamin C yet clinical evidence of its use has never shown.  We even see high dose trials of Vitamin C and Zinc for COVID-19 despite there being no rational evidence that it will be efficacious.

[elliot_n]

This doesn't make sense to me. Why would US sponsor virus research in China, something close to military grade if I read between the lines correctly? I'm sure US does it, but not where the info is at the fingertips of the Chinese.

As I understand things, it was not military research but public-health research — they were monkeying around with viruses to better understand how to treat them. Why do the research in China? Well that's where all the collected bat coronaviruses were located.

(I'm more comfortable with the idea that the virus came from a wet market, so hopefully someone can demonstrate that a lab release is unlikely.)

[LesPalenik]

If that is true one would see many more scientists taking that position.  There was a meme circulating about a week ago about a Japanese Nobel Laureate saying the same thing.  Both he and his institution said it was false.  Dr. Montagnier is celebrated for his work on HIV but that alone does not confer him with any special powers.  Linus Pauling in his later years extolled the use of high doses of Vitamin C yet clinical evidence of its use has never shown.  We even see high dose trials of Vitamin C and Zinc for COVID-19 despite there being no rational evidence that it will be efficacious.

As I understood it, the researchers found HIV-like, consistently looking sequences in the Covid-19 virus. If this is true, then this evidence is demonstrable and present in all Covid-19 virus samples.

I am not surprised by the fact that many other established scientists don't know it. When Dr. Semmelweis in 1846 suggested that the doctors wash their hands with chlorinated water before assisting pregnant women at birth, he was ridiculed by other doctors and lost his job. Also, most doctors and nutritionists today still advocate drinking milk for strengthening the bones, while the reverse is true. So, I wouldn't necessarily believe the old guard. 

[Manoli]

I was not aware that Montagniers assertion that there were 'elements' of HIV in Covid-19 was ever disputed. Was that not behind the initial interest and research into Remedesivir as a potential 'treatment' for Covid-19 ?

[Jeremy Roussak]

Leaving aside the parts that coincide with Montagnier's input, the rest does seem 'dubious'.

Snopes' report:

Therefore, Mikovits’ speculative claims linking her research to vaccine science, drawing the ire of “Big Pharma” and the “Deep State”, and her subsequent arrest are not rooted in science or reality.

Her wikipedia entry is certainly entertaining.

Jeremy

[Jeremy Roussak]

As I understood it, the researchers found HIV-like, consistently looking sequences in the Covid-19 virus. If this is true, then this evidence is demonstrable and present in all Covid-19 virus samples.

Depending on the lengths of the sequences, and whether or not they are found in other viruses, that may or may not be surprising.

I am not surprised by the fact that many other established scientists don't know it. When Dr. Semmelweis in 1846 suggested that the doctors wash their hands with chlorinated water before assisting pregnant women at birth, he was ridiculed by other doctors and lost his job. Also, most doctors and nutritionists today still advocate drinking milk for strengthening the bones, while the reverse is true. So, I wouldn't necessarily believe the old guard.

Irrelevant analogies are unhelpful, as is your repetition of your bizarre beliefs about milk.

Jeremy

[LesPalenik]

Depending on the lengths of the sequences, and whether or not they are found in other viruses, that may or may not be surprising.

Irrelevant analogies are unhelpful, as is your repetition of your bizarre beliefs about milk.

Jeremy

This just confirms my suspicion about many doctors believing in the century-old myths. There are many new studies showing adverse effects of milk and dairy products on bones and heart.

By Thomas Campbell, MD - October 31, 2014 — Updated November 1st, 2018 - 12 Frightening Facts about Milk:
A large observational cohort study in Sweden found that women consuming more than 3 glasses of milk a day had almost twice the mortality over 20 years compared to those women consuming less than one glass a day. In addition, the high milk-drinkers did not have improved bone health. In fact, they had more fractures, particularly hip fractures.

https://nutritionstudies.org/12-frightening-facts-milk/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/too-much-milk-may-be-bad-for-your-health/
https://www.onegreenplanet.org/vegan-food/5-alarming-facts-about-cheese-and-your-health/

Jeremy, this information is widely accessible. If you bother to google for Dangers of milk, you'll find many similar studies and conclusions. Invariably, you'll find also many contradicting opinions.
I don't aim to convert you, but there may be people who didn't know these facts and who could benefit by looking at such reports.