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Author Topic: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS  (Read 48649 times)

Manoli

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #80 on: March 25, 2020, 11:11:29 am »

NO! longer ...
NEJM ( New England Journal of Medicine) reported that Covid-19 can linger in the air for hours and on some materials for days; far longer than previously thought. Cardboard and plastic are closer to 48 & 72 hours.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/03/19/how-long-can-the-novel-coronavirus-survive-on-surfaces-and-in-the-air
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2004973



Just as an FYI:

  • The virus stays infectious on cardboard for ~24 hours
  • Amazon warehouse workers have been testing positive
  • Many delivery drivers have been going to work sick because they fear they will lose their jobs if they call in

It's been suggested that you leave delivered packages on the porch for 24 hours before bringing them in and opening.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 11:34:14 am by Manoli »
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #81 on: March 25, 2020, 11:36:12 am »

NO!
NEJM ( New England Journal of Medivine) reported that Covid-19 can linger in the air for hours and on some materials for days; far longer than previously thought. Cardboard and plastic are closer to 24 & 72 hours.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2004973

I read the paper when it first came out as a pre-print maybe two weeks ago.  While the data are interesting, it's not clear how transferable they are to what one sees in the real world.  I don't know what type of aersols are generated when someone coughs or sneezes.  Sneezing would seem to me to propel aerosols further as there is more air expelled and at a faster rate.  It is also important to know what the viral load is in sputum as that seems to me far more dangerous as the nose really doesn't deliver aerosols.

With respect to contaminated surfaces, it depends on the viral load on the surface.  You are not going to get infected by touching a surface that has virus on it unless you transfer the virus to your mouth, nose or eyes which would be principal modes of entry to the body and eventually the lungs.  Also remember that these were lab experiments where they were deliberately swabbing surfaces to see if virus could be recovered and cultured.  they are measuring infection in tissue culture which may or may not be relevant to the human exposure route.  Yhe amount of virus recovered was less with time in all the surface experiments.  Here is what they say about cardboard, "On cardboard, no viable SARS-CoV-2 was measured after 24 hours"  Most cardboard is porous and it may actually inhibit transfer of virus to hands.

Prudent practice remains - wash your hands!!!!!
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Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #82 on: March 25, 2020, 11:39:14 am »

The stores here have senior hours early in the morning.  That's the only time I go.  The local Whole Foods has almost everything in stock.  Not so with Safeway and Giant.  Whole Foods also checks ID at the door and won't let anyone under 60 in the store.  I keep my distance and use the wipes the store has.  I wash my hands when I get home.
That what I do.  Then I go back and spray the door knobs with alcohol.

Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #83 on: March 25, 2020, 11:40:32 am »

We have a policy of 4 people per 100m2 in the supermarkets. Once I leave the house, Inever bring myhands to my face, and use sleeves to open door handles. When I return home, I leave the shoes outside, take off my "street" clothes, basically I have a "dirty" area in the hall of my house.

I thouroughly wash my hands before putting on my "home" clothes, and leave the groceries sitting for a few hours.

It's just common sense really.

Take care.
How do you deal with fresh produce, meats, etc?

Manoli

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #84 on: March 25, 2020, 12:04:38 pm »

While the data are interesting, it's not clear how transferable they are to what one sees in the real world. ....  You are not going to get infected by touching a surface that has virus on it unless you transfer the virus to your mouth, nose or eyes which would be principal modes of entry to the body and eventually the lungs.  Also remember that these were lab experiments ...

The latest data or should I say 'thoughts' , specifically relating to the cruise ships, indicated that the virus was active and persistant far longer than previously thought and contagion was, to a great extent , due to persistence on surfaces, bannisters , table tops , seat covers , arms etc etc

It may not be evidence, yet, but in today's circumstances, wiser to heed words of warning. Too much is still unknown and if empirical evidence points one way, I'd follow it until it's proven to be untrue.
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kers

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #85 on: March 25, 2020, 02:45:38 pm »

The latest data or should I say 'thoughts' , specifically relating to the cruise ships, indicated that the virus was active and persistant far longer than previously thought and contagion was, to a great extent , due to persistence on surfaces, bannisters , table tops , seat covers , arms etc etc

It may not be evidence, yet, but in today's circumstances, wiser to heed words of warning. Too much is still unknown and if empirical evidence points one way, I'd follow it until it's proven to be untrue.
In the Netherlands this 'news' was not taken as valid.
Maybe the virus was still there, but they think it was not complete and therefore dangerous anymore.
IOW they thought the had done an DNA test that recognised the virus, without checking if it was still active and dangerous.
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armand

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #86 on: March 25, 2020, 03:07:43 pm »

How to clean your food: https://youtu.be/sjDuwc9KBps

texshooter

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #87 on: March 25, 2020, 11:49:54 pm »


Is there any proof this works?

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Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #88 on: March 26, 2020, 12:26:13 am »

Is there any proof this works?


That design could help some marriages I know. :)

Jeremy Roussak

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #89 on: March 26, 2020, 05:18:40 am »

Is there any proof this works?

"works" in what way? Does keeping people about 2m apart reduce the likelihood of transmission? Probably. Does painting orange circles on the pavement help to keep people 2m apart? The photo seems to suggest that it might.

Jeremy
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #90 on: March 26, 2020, 05:48:36 am »

How do you deal with fresh produce, meats, etc?

According to our health authorities, fruit and vegetables are ok. Stiil, I wash them as I normally used to do anyway, with water and soap, before storing them. I basically wash everything, but I am used to do it anyway.

I also leave shopping bags in a "dirty area" for 1 day.

LesPalenik

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #91 on: March 26, 2020, 06:30:56 am »

Interesting chart re: Covid-19 age distribution in Canada - showing most infections in 30-70 years range:



more charts and analysis:
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/health-professionals/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html

Paulo Bizarro

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #92 on: March 26, 2020, 06:56:19 am »

Data collected by a specialist in AI and statistics in Portugal, Francisco Restivo, see attached plot from 2 days ago. Number of cases per 100,000 people.

Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #93 on: March 26, 2020, 10:33:51 am »

According to our health authorities, fruit and vegetables are ok. Stiil, I wash them as I normally used to do anyway, with water and soap, before storing them. I basically wash everything, but I am used to do it anyway.

I also leave shopping bags in a "dirty area" for 1 day.
Thanks.  I just washed bananas and oranges with soap and water and rinsed them off.  All the glass , plastic, cardboard and other grocery items were cleaned off with Lysol Disinfectant sprayed into a couple of paper towels and wiped off with it.   I have to start wearing Nitrile rubber gloves more often.   I'm getting homemaker hands.  :)

Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #94 on: March 26, 2020, 10:36:08 am »

Interesting chart re: Covid-19 age distribution in Canada - showing most infections in 30-70 years range:



more charts and analysis:
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/health-professionals/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html

I'm 75.  Maybe I should move to Canada and be safe.

John Camp

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #95 on: March 26, 2020, 11:07:49 am »

Johns Hopkins site now lists more than 1,000 dead in US.
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #96 on: March 26, 2020, 11:23:54 am »

I'm 75.  Maybe I should move to Canada and be safe.

Not really. Mortality rate increases quite a lot above 70 years old... as of today there are ~3,500cases in Portugal, 60 dead. 11 dead below 70 years old.

Regarding the age distribution, from what I have seen thus far, it is very similar to other countries, almost a normal distribution.

LesPalenik

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #97 on: March 26, 2020, 11:24:50 am »

I'm 75.  Maybe I should move to Canada and be safe.
I gather, one reason for the small percentage of the over 70 year old people in that chart is that they don't go out as much as the younger group. Especially in the winter.

Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #99 on: March 26, 2020, 11:37:37 am »

I gather, one reason for the small percentage of the over 70 year old people in that chart is that they don't go out as much as the younger group. Especially in the winter.
In Canada, there's roughly 7 times the population of 30-70 years old as there are over 70.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1710000501
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