Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6   Go Down

Author Topic: So, now you are KING of the USA, what do you do to go green?  (Read 6101 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18091
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: So, now you are KING of the USA, what do you do to go green?
« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2020, 02:12:20 pm »

...Who gives the US... that right to decide who is who?...

Exactly, Rob. Nobody. There is no cosmic justice.

We take that right, we do not need anyone to give it to us.

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: So, now you are KING of the USA, what do you do to go green?
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2020, 03:37:22 pm »

Exactly, Rob. Nobody. There is no cosmic justice.

We take that right, we do not need anyone to give it to us.


As NK and Iran keep indicating. So do they take it - or at least, both will eventually unless something susprising developes. After all, in the case of Iran, if Israel really has it, then what does anyone expect from the neighbours?

kers

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4393
    • Pieter Kers
Re: So, now you are KING of the USA, what do you do to go green?
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2020, 09:05:23 pm »

Exactly, Rob. Nobody. There is no cosmic justice.

We take that right, we do not need anyone to give it to us.

WE take that right;  is that your Servian side or your US side... 
...
it doesn't sound very sane either way, let alone democratic.
Logged
Pieter Kers
www.beeld.nu/la

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: So, now you are KING of the USA, what do you do to go green?
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2020, 09:31:42 pm »

WE take that right;  is that your Servian side or your US side... 
...
it doesn't sound very sane either way, let alone democratic.

Democracy doesn;t apply in international affairs. How would you vote on such a thing?   Even in the U.N. some countries have more power.  In any case, where would you be if America wasn't around? 

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8914
Re: So, now you are KING of the USA, what do you do to go green?
« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2020, 09:48:50 am »

Democracy doesn;t apply in international affairs. How would you vote on such a thing?   Even in the U.N. some countries have more power.  In any case, where would you be if America wasn't around?

You seem to confuse a kind of populism (the old Greek Democratic Rule-by-the-people as opposed to Aristocracy) with a modern form of Democacy. Populism seeks majority rule. (True)Democracy is when the majority (e.g. in a simple case 50 % + 1) is delegated/appointed to deal the shots on behalf of the entire populus, while at the same time protecting the rights of the minority.

But as Slobodan and others have said before, the USA is not a democracy. I disagree, but see the USA as one of many forms of Democracy, but less modern than a many Western Liberal Democracies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_democracy

With such an old-fashioned view on what modern Democracy actually is, I can see how you fail to see that such a concept could actually apply across borders.

This actually is at the basis of our different appreciations of the USA's role in the international community (a global village where our actions affect all the other community members).
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 09:52:33 am by Bart_van_der_Wolf »
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: So, now you are KING of the USA, what do you do to go green?
« Reply #45 on: February 21, 2020, 03:28:31 pm »

You seem to confuse a kind of populism (the old Greek Democratic Rule-by-the-people as opposed to Aristocracy) with a modern form of Democacy. Populism seeks majority rule. (True)Democracy is when the majority (e.g. in a simple case 50 % + 1) is delegated/appointed to deal the shots on behalf of the entire populus, while at the same time protecting the rights of the minority.

But as Slobodan and others have said before, the USA is not a democracy. I disagree, but see the USA as one of many forms of Democracy, but less modern than a many Western Liberal Democracies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_democracy

With such an old-fashioned view on what modern Democracy actually is, I can see how you fail to see that such a concept could actually apply across borders.

This actually is at the basis of our different appreciations of the USA's role in the international community (a global village where our actions affect all the other community members).
Bart, You didn't describe how democracy or  democratic principles work among nations.  The closest we have in the U.N. which has very limited power that can be vetoed by certain states on the really important issues. 

Countries decide how they operate based on their own interests.  Sometimes, those interests coincide with a number of countries.  So they can join together in a common purpose such as NATO or the EU.  But at the end of the day, each country decides what its interest are and then attempts to protect them. 

I think that America has also taken on greater responsibility for the common good.  Some of it is for our own interests.  Some of it is less self-interested.  WE've often gotten involved in foreign adventures that seem "good" initially only to turn out terrible for us and others.  Right now we have huge debt.   So we can;t afford many activities we and others thought were regular for us.  Regardless of who wins in 2020 and later, American presidents are going to have to back off because the money isn't there any longer to pay for many of these things.     

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: So, now you are KING of the USA, what do you do to go green?
« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2020, 04:24:27 am »

You seem to confuse a kind of populism (the old Greek Democratic Rule-by-the-people as opposed to Aristocracy) with a modern form of Democacy. Populism seeks majority rule. (True)Democracy is when the majority (e.g. in a simple case 50 % + 1) is delegated/appointed to deal the shots on behalf of the entire populus, while at the same time protecting the rights of the minority.

But as Slobodan and others have said before, the USA is not a democracy. I disagree, but see the USA as one of many forms of Democracy, but less modern than a many Western Liberal Democracies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_democracy

With such an old-fashioned view on what modern Democracy actually is, I can see how you fail to see that such a concept could actually apply across borders.

This actually is at the basis of our different appreciations of the USA's role in the international community (a global village where our actions affect all the other community members).

This always happens in life: one-time leaders and systems always become passé in the end.

Britain once set the world stage for parliamentary and legal procedures. Now, we are starting to cut ourselves off from the tree as we still sit on the branch. The creaking just got ominously louder on the 31st of January.

What chance the US without a many centuries-old tradition and setting of such standards? It did its best to hang on to what came over with it from Europe, but distance and the wild-west attitudes prevailed. It never had a chance: instead it developed the mafia and the most dangerous trade unions and industrial lobbies. And nobody has ever known where lie the lines between those and governmental powers. And worse, today, the very questioning of it all has become known as fake news.

petermfiore

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2705
    • Peter Fiore Fine Art
Re: So, now you are KING of the USA, what do you do to go green?
« Reply #47 on: February 22, 2020, 06:54:52 am »

This always happens in life: one-time leaders and systems always become passé in the end.

Britain once set the world stage for parliamentary and legal procedures. Now, we are starting to cut ourselves off from the tree as we still sit on the branch. The creaking just got ominously louder on the 31st of January.

What chance the US without a many centuries-old tradition and setting of such standards? It did its best to hang on to what came over with it from Europe, but distance and the wild-west attitudes prevailed. It never had a chance: instead it developed the mafia and the most dangerous trade unions and industrial lobbies. And nobody has ever known where lie the lines between those and governmental powers. And worse, today, the very questioning of it all has become known as fake news.

With all of that...I still rather be stuck in the USA.

Peter

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8914
Re: So, now you are KING of the USA, what do you do to go green?
« Reply #48 on: February 22, 2020, 08:44:53 pm »

With all of that...I still rather be stuck in the USA.

Hi Peter,

I understand, but which USA are we talking about?

The "rich man's justice" kind of USA, or that of normal people putting in an honest effort and contributing their part to society?

Time For Warnings Is Past As Trump Openly Abuses Power
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roGPWFUCz0c

Europeans and others around the world are watching this, and wonder (which is an understatement) ...
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: So, now you are KING of the USA, what do you do to go green?
« Reply #49 on: February 22, 2020, 11:22:14 pm »

Hi Peter,

I understand, but which USA are we talking about?

The "rich man's justice" kind of USA, or that of normal people putting in an honest effort and contributing their part to society?

Time For Warnings Is Past As Trump Openly Abuses Power
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roGPWFUCz0c

Europeans and others around the world are watching this, and wonder (which is an understatement) ...

Watching what?  Wondering about what?  Trump's been president for 4 years.  What has he done that affects you so much that would keep you up nights?  I didn't realize he had so much effect in the Netherlands.  How has your life changed?  What justice has changed here in America?  You're just being politically hyperbolic because you don;t like him.

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18091
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: So, now you are KING of the USA, what do you do to go green?
« Reply #50 on: February 23, 2020, 04:05:57 am »

Hi Peter,

I understand, but which USA are we talking about?

The "rich man's justice" kind of USA, or that of normal people putting in an honest effort and contributing their part to society?

Time For Warnings Is Past As Trump Openly Abuses Power
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roGPWFUCz0c

Europeans and others around the world are watching this, and wonder (which is an understatement) ...

 ;D ;D ;D

I can assure you, Bart, that “normal people” is the States are doing just fine, actually, better than under Obama. Whatever problems we might have are not related to Trump, but to life itself.

Perhaps time to change your binoculars?

petermfiore

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2705
    • Peter Fiore Fine Art
Re: So, now you are KING of the USA, what do you do to go green?
« Reply #51 on: February 23, 2020, 07:56:28 am »

Hi Peter,

I understand, but which USA are we talking about?

quote]

Bart,

One of the normal people putting in an honest effort and contributing their part to society! Via Taxes...

This is how I , and my family before me, have always lived and always will. This is all I know how to be...

Peter
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 11:54:22 am by petermfiore »
Logged

RSL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16046
    • http://www.russ-lewis.com
Re: So, now you are KING of the USA, what do you do to go green?
« Reply #52 on: February 23, 2020, 08:17:16 am »

Hi Peter,

I understand, but which USA are we talking about?

The "rich man's justice" kind of USA, or that of normal people putting in an honest effort and contributing their part to society?

Time For Warnings Is Past As Trump Openly Abuses Power
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roGPWFUCz0c

Europeans and others around the world are watching this, and wonder (which is an understatement) ...

Considering the crap the news media put out nowadays I can understand your confusion, Bart. People don't work to "contribute to society." They work to contribute to themselves, and since Trump got into office in most cases their contributions to themselves have increased noticeably. But for the "media," reporting that is a no no.
Logged
Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: So, now you are KING of the USA, what do you do to go green?
« Reply #53 on: February 23, 2020, 11:13:28 am »

Russ, Europeans are all Socialists.  You know that. 

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: So, now you are KING of the USA, what do you do to go green?
« Reply #54 on: February 23, 2020, 11:49:51 am »

Considering the crap the news media put out nowadays I can understand your confusion, Bart. People don't work to "contribute to society." They work to contribute to themselves, and since Trump got into office in most cases their contributions to themselves have increased noticeably. But for the "media," reporting that is a no no.


Yes, perhaps that's the case, but as money is always short*, it must be at the cost of spending money on your shared infrastucture. I think I see it already: in many of Jay Leno's car videos he complains about the holes and cracks in the streets of LA, how much extremely expensive damage they do the wheels of his many cars, and I have heard exactly the same for New York from William Klein.

That's not to absolve the UK: the most noticeable thing when you cross from French motorways to English ones is how poor the home side is compared with France which has pay-for motorways, though some stretches are free, or were when I had the pleasure of using them.

* See The impossibility of surviving on 50 million bucks.

Rob

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: So, now you are KING of the USA, what do you do to go green?
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2020, 03:41:57 am »

Considering the crap the news media put out nowadays I can understand your confusion, Bart. People don't work to "contribute to society." They work to contribute to themselves, and since Trump got into office in most cases their contributions to themselves have increased noticeably. But for the "media," reporting that is a no no.

This may come as a huge surprise to you Russ, but many people in the world are not just thinking about their selfish selves. Be it in their private life or in their professional life.

As recently as 2 weeks ago I hired a young lady whose main motivation to select the company I work for instead of another one was our contribution to the sustainability of our customers. The reason being that she needed to know she was contributing to society.

This is the case for a large majority of young people in Europe and I believe the same applies in most parts of the US.

I know it's a terribly slipping slope... you start by caring about society and the next thing you know is you being ok to contribute to the healthcare of poor people... which is the entry point into the socialist hell. Selfishness is a lot safer...  ;D ;D ;D

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 03:46:03 am by BernardLanguillier »
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18091
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: So, now you are KING of the USA, what do you do to go green?
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2020, 05:03:36 am »

... As recently as 2 weeks ago I hired a young lady whose main motivation to select the company I work for instead of another one was our contribution to the sustainability of our customers. The reason being that she needed to know she was contributing to society...

OMG! With idiots like that, the humanity is indeed doomed.

 ;D :D ;D

P.S. 20 years ago, I hired a young lady whose main motivation to select the company I worked for instead of another one was that her boss would be good looking, charming, and gentlemanly. The reason being that she needed to know she has a chance of marrying him.

P.P.S. it almost happened then. It still might happen. I’ll keep you posted.

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: So, now you are KING of the USA, what do you do to go green?
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2020, 05:08:03 am »

This may come as a huge surprise to you Russ, but many people in the world are not just thinking about their selfish selves. Be it in their private life or in their professional life.

As recently as 2 weeks ago I hired a young lady whose main motivation to select the company I work for instead of another one was our contribution to the sustainability of our customers. The reason being that she needed to know she was contributing to society.

This is the case for a large majority of young people in Europe and I believe the same applies in most parts of the US.

I know it's a terribly slipping slope... you start by caring about society and the next thing you know is you being ok to contribute to the healthcare of poor people... which is the entry point into the socialist hell. Selfishness is a lot safer...  ;D ;D ;D

Cheers,
Bernard

To the above, I would add that not everybody works just to make money.

They are the exceptions, but I know several folks who do what they do in life because they love it; whether they become rich has nothing to do with it: as the graffito in the famous Jeanloup Sieff photograph of a French wall said: ne perdez pas votre vie a la gagner. Which roughly translated means: don't waste your life in the earning of your living. (It works better in the French.)

I guess artists mostly understand and get that.

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: So, now you are KING of the USA, what do you do to go green?
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2020, 05:11:43 am »

OMG! With idiots like that, the humanity is indeed doomed.

 ;D :D ;D

P.S. 20 years ago, I hired a young lady whose main motivation to select the company I worked for instead of another one was that her boss would be good looking, charming, and gentlemanly. The reason being that she needed to know she has a chance of marrying him.

P.P.S. it almost happened then. It still might happen. I’ll keep you posted.


Usually, once bitten twice shy! I told you I patted a dog once.

;-)

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5339
    • advantica blog
Re: So, now you are KING of the USA, what do you do to go green?
« Reply #59 on: February 25, 2020, 05:26:03 am »

P.S. 20 years ago, I hired a young lady whose main motivation to select the company I worked for instead of another one was that her boss would be good looking, charming, and gentlemanly. The reason being that she needed to know she has a chance of marrying him.

P.P.S. it almost happened then. It still might happen. I’ll keep you posted.

Slobodan, please stop the suspense and tell us what happened during those 20 years.

Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6   Go Up